Will you get immunized against the swine flu?

[tim555 7]

 

When the WHO changes it's defintion of a pandemic to remove the significant mortality portion of the definition, I start to wonder what is actually happening.

 

You've watched too many movies, the word 'pandemic' just means a disease that's widespread and spreading, nothing to do with mortality.

 

 

(of a disease) prevalent throughout an entire country, continent, or the whole world; epidemic over a large area.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pandemic

[Pleb 45]

no they (the WHO) changed the definition...

 

previously it included the sections to do with mortality... the implications are the member countries are bound by the WHO rules and mandates. Therefore when they change the defintion and then set level 6 (it doesn't go any higher) the member countries are bound to follow the WHO's directives.

 

It literally translates to the WHO being under less restrictive guidelines before they declare a woldwide pandemic.

 

I was not referring to the dictionary definition of pandemic because that is not binding for the member countries of the WHO.

[tim555 7]

A word definition doesn't include 'sections' and WHO isn't in the business of defining words. Are you actually talking about the guidelines and directives they put out? It's no surprise they've changed as the swine flu has proven to have a lower fatality rate than feared, something which is hard to predict with a new flu virus.

 

The word 'pandemic' has always and still does mean a widespread disease, not the popular impression that it implies mass death and WHO of all people know that.

 

Edit: Here's how WHO describes a 'pandemic', unsurprisingly perfectly consistent with the dictionary definition of the word:

 

 

Phase 5 is characterized by human-to-human spread of the virus into at least two countries in one WHO region. While most countries will not be affected at this stage, the declaration of Phase 5 is a strong signal that a pandemic is imminent and that the time to finalize the organization, communication, and implementation of the planned mitigation measures is short.

 

Phase 6, the pandemic phase, is characterized by community level outbreaks in at least one other country in a different WHO region in addition to the criteria defined in Phase 5. Designation of this phase will indicate that a global pandemic is under way.

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/phase/en/index.html

 

BTW swine flu is still defined as a pandemic because of the fact that it's so widespread, despite the fact it hasn't killed so many people

[sparkling 132]

 

I'm not so good at math, but wouldn't 16 out of AT LEAST 40,000 cases be something like... uh... hm... .04%?

 

 

 

0.04% is equivalent to one in 2,500.

 

I agree with Dessa on this. 16 out of 40000 is the equivalent of 0.04%.

 

Anyways...

I spoke to my parents, who are both over 65, and they told me that in Turkey the vaccine is not given to the 65+ group, and currently only given to children between 0-6. Concerned, I ended up reading many websites, and the reliable sources say that 65+ group has much less risk of contracting swine flu than children. While reading, I also found some interesting tips, some which I haven't read before. which I summarize below. I don't know how reliable the MD is though. Feel free to comment...

 

 

 

Fight with food

1. Yogurt (w/probiotics, e.g. Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidus, L. rhamnosus)

2. Garlic (garlic soup anyone?)

3. Black tea

4. Mushrooms

5. Fatty fish, e.g. Salmon, mackerel, herring or other fatty fish

 

Shield yourself from germs

1. Wash your hands often and well

2. Don't share toothpaste tubes (brush usually touches the opening)

3. Use paper towels instead of regular towels. And generously use paper to avoid touching surfaces in public places, e.g. flushing the toilet

4. Deploy disinfectant. Phone, computer keyboard, weights at the gym, yoga mats, etc. Hotel rooms are suspect too.

5. Use creative barriers. Press the elevator button with your keys, a knuckle, or your elbow. When using an ATM or a ticketing machine, use gloves, or press the buttons with your ATM card. Observe the 5-foot rule. Maintain at least 5 feet of distance between you and a coughing or sneezing person.

 

Buy supplements

1. Fish oil (if you don't like fatty fish)

2. Vitamin D (if you don't get enough sunlight)

3. Cold-fX (have no idea what it is)

4. Zinc

 

Play hard, then get some rest

1. Snooze for at least 7 hours a night.

2. Try tai chi (I think any Bewegung will do)

3. Party on - moderately

 

about the food... natural yogurt, garlic and black tea are a big part of the Turkish diet, however more people died of swine flu in Turkey in comparison to Germany so far. I think it's the population density, especially in the cities.

 

Anybody knows where to get yogurt with the most useful probiotics in Frankfurt?

 

Edit: All of the above tips are for boosting the immune system, especially for people who have no access to the vaccines. Immunization is still the 1st recommendation.

[sparkling 132]

 

BTW swine flu is still defined as a pandemic because of the fact that it's so widespread, despite the fact it hasn't killed so many people

 

I understand there is also the concern about the mutation of the virus, that it could get more dangerous. If that's the case, maybe we are just going through a test now, and meanwhile getting ready to fight with a more serious problem.

[RainyDays 2,453]

I heard experts say in interviews that right now swine flu is not something to worry about for a healthy person (except very rare cases where a pneumonia follows, whose causes are not completely known), most cases are in fact milder than the classic influenza. However, when looking at the genetic make-up of the virus, for experts it is clear that there certain genes that are currently inactive but could be activated through mutation and make the virus much more pathogenic (higher mortality).

 

I also think that the so far mild course of the pandemic in Germany is a good test run to see what can go wrong (bad communication strategy with conflicting messages to the public; each land does things differently; different authorities lack coordination, pauses in vaccine supply etc.).

 

 

Anybody knows where to get yogurt with the most useful probiotics in Frankfurt?

Sparkling, look for Nestlé LC1 or Yakult, can be found in most supermarkets.

[sparkling 132]

 

Sparkling, look for Nestlé LC1 or Yakult, can be found in most supermarkets.

 

Thanks RainyDays, I like both but I think now I'm looking for something else; yogurt with active cultures. Found an old Active culture yoghurt in Germany on it, so will not be hi-jacking this one.

[Freising 503]

I got my swine flu shot yesterday. Except for the pain in the arm everything went well... until 12 hours later. The whole night I had a fever accompanied with muscle pains and a bad headache. No sleep at all... Fever didnt seem to be very high, but the physical reactions (shivering, sweating), were surprisingly strong. There is no way I could be going to work today.

 

So I guess my advice would be, if you get your appointment for the vaccination, make sure that you havent anything planned the next 1or 2 days. (I´m 37 btw and I got the vaccine with the adjuvants.)

[Pleb 45]

Thankyou for the honest observations... I hope that you feel better soon.

[bostonkat 4]

My husband and I each got H1N1 vaccinations yesterday from our GP in our town. The injection itself was painless (small needle). We both experienced some soreness at the injection site for 1-2 days after (felt like a bruise). Otherwise we both felt fine -no other side effects.

[Freising 503]

@Pleb: Thanks. I already felt better the next morning (though very tired). The next day everything was fine again.

 

@bostonkat: It would be interesting to know if you and your husband are about my age. According to what I read, the overreaction of the immune system to those adjuvants might have something to do with your age.

 

Anyway I´m still glad, I got the vaccination. One unpleasant night seems like a small price to pay if you accept the benefit of vaccination.

[Mariposa 1,281]

 

@bostonkat: It would be interesting to know if you and your husband are about my age. According to what I read, the overreaction of the immune system to those adjuvants might have something to do with your age.

 

What do you mean, do younger people react more strongly or older people?

[Freising 503]

 

What do you mean, do younger people react more strongly or older people?

 

I think I read (or was told) younger people react more strongly. (Im aware 37 isnt that young anymore.) But Im starting to wonder if I mixed that up with the reaction of people to the swine flu itself, because I cant find reliable information about that on the web. The only thing I could find: kids react stronger (when given the same dosage) and the immunization effect on people above 65 is lower, so they might have to get vaccinated a second time. Apparently every 10th has a reaction like me (doesnt say anything about a correlation to age though).

[mlovett 8,681]

My 5 year old got immunized last week (H1N1)... no adverse effects, whatsoever. They've run out of the seasonal flu vaccine! I had a reaction to that in Germany (fever, etc), which had never happened to me before.

[spatown 115]

The children in our family (ie children of nieces) have had the first injection and will have the second half three weeks later. One little girl (a friend of theirs, also vaccinated at the same time) has a slightly raised temperature the next day.

 

Also a friend of mine, who has a heart condition (or rather she has had a triple by-pass a couple of years ago) is having it also in two parts. Sort of interesting to see how it is being managed in different places.

[eurovol 126]

Just got immunized against the piggy virus and will get another shot in 2-3 weeks for the annual flu vaccine.

[jackal 4]

Our doctor informed my son does not need a second shot. Why is it different in different places?

[Mariposa 1,281]

I had the vaccine yesterday and so far I'm doing great, my arm is sore but that's it. I only need one shot as well.

[eurovol 126]

The reason for only one shot is due to the adjuvant. It increases the potency of the initial shot and this was seemingly not seen as significant in the quick efficacy trials. Early reports had people needing two shots in succession to achieve acceptable immune levels, but as the vaccine is put into actual use those first reports are getting updated continuously. As far as I know it, a single shot is now the recommendation for the ten to sixty year old crowd (new data to be released very soon to confirm this or suggest a second shot). Epidemiology outside that age range probably dictates the added shot because the young (as well as expectant mothers and those with health problems) should not get the shot with the adjuvant and the old just seem to not respond well to vaccines period (and many have health issues saying that they should also not have the adjuvant added variety).

[RainyDays 2,453]

Interesting article about the possible disadvantages of vaccination against the seasonal flu: A study with mice showed that only the infection with the seasonal flu (influenza A) or probably the current swine flu (influenza A H1N1) virus provides a "heterosubtypic immunity", which means partial protection against new subtypes. The illness is presumed to be milder and less likely to be mortal if the person went through an influenza at some point in their life. So annual flu shots for large parts of the population make sense in order to have less virus circulation and to protect the chronically ill or old people whose immune system doesn't respond to vaccinations, but for the (healthy) individual, it means no development of protection against new influenza subtypes except when vaccinated against those. See "Kann die Schweinegrippe sogar nutzen?", FAZ, 24 Nov. 2009 and "Yearly influenza vaccinations – A double-edged sword?", The Lancet, Vol. 9, Iss. 12, Dec. 2009.