Demonstration against the Stadtschloss in Berlin

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Does Berlin really NEED a castle? OK it might be a nice idea blah de blah but surely there are more pressing needs like a working S-bahn for example? Berlin has enough about it to attract tourists already so one more building aint gonna make any difference.

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It seems to me that people are rather foolish in their opposition to this building being built. Let's face it: the money is coming from the Federal Government for the most part. There is no guarantee that the Federal Government would give this money to Berlin for other purposes, is there? At least the people building the 'thing' will be employed and some of this money will circulate through the Berlin economy. As far as this being a fake so what? There are many other such buildings around the world. Why should Berlin be so morally superior as to reject this? So it will be built. Now whether the purposes for which it is to be put are the right purposes or the most logical that is a different story and what people should be discussing.

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Does Berlin really NEED a castle?

It's a PALACE not a castle.

 

As this point has already been made loads of times and people STILL didn't get it yet here's a helpful reminder:- PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE PALACE.

 

Got it yet?

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I hope this Castle would push through. If these protesters would try to calm down, think deeper and analyze the whole economic situation...this Castle would actually generate income and keep the economy moving. How else will Berlin attract investors? By having lots of "buyers" meaning "people" in Berlin. Investors would not just drop from the sky and start investing without people who can afford to buy/pay. Now with these builders, these masons, these subcontractors who have extra monthly money in the pockets plus more tourists (who will surely buy some souvenirs, need hotels and and extra services)...surely investors would be willing to give Berlin a chance. As far as investing is concerned, it has always been tricky, investors have special parameters ordinary people are not aware of. Now if these protestors have clear idea what sort of investment they want to take place in Berlin...am willing to listen...what type of investment they have in mind, knowing point in fact that Berlin is: fact number one: a tourist place. A better looking Berlin is just what I think Berliners need around this time. Berlin pales in comparison to Paris and London. I daresay it is due time Berlin shines again its true grandeur.

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Yes but Keefy it is by no means authentic in any shape or form. No one ever lived in those houses they have no history. It's a fake. You don't accept fake cash being handed over to you so why fake cultural currency. Berlin has a lot of bigger issues than a tiny fake palace. The demonstrators are a waste of time, money and police resources as it has become clear. It all seems to be a distraction from the real problems I have seen in Berlin which could use the money.

 

But that was (I think) keefy's point. The new stuff often looks really good, and it's far better for the location than the hideous 50s-70s stuff close by it. This sort of rebuilding's gone on all over Europe. All sorts of stuff is "fake". Nobody cares.

 

A lot of the stuff in the Pergamon that claims to represent ancient civilisation? Completely fake. 100% reconstruction. Yet it generates vast business, nobody turns their nose up at that. Shall we close that down too? The list goes on.

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Most of the guys in favour of this are seem to be more anti-hippie for some reason than anti/pro anything and don't seem to come from Berlin. I'm guessing the people who plussed the comments are the same.

 

Agreed. The socio-economic background of English-speaking expats has to be factored in here: people who live abroad generally tend to be people who can afford to live abroad. Hence, all the vituperation directed against alleged suburban Trustafarians is pure projection. The philistine petit-bourgeois core of the Babbitry remains in tact, but it nurtures its own "hipster" illusions about itself while simultaneously revealing its own insecurity in its attacks upon anything that threatens those illusions.

 

Reaganite and Thatcherite youth love Berlin not for what it is, but for what they imagine it could be: a slightly "edgier" version of Munich. No thanks.

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Agreed. The socio-economic background of English-speaking expats has to be factored in here: people who live abroad generally tend to be people who can afford to live abroad. Hence, all the vituperation directed against alleged suburban Trustafarians is pure projection. The philistine petit-bourgeois core of the Babbitry remains in tact, but it nurtures its own "hipster" illusions about itself while simultaneously revealing its own insecurity in its attacks upon anything that threatens those illusions.

 

Reaganite and Thatcherite youth love Berlin not for what it is, but for what they imagine it could be: a slightly "edgier" version of Munich. No thanks.

 

The philosphy that people need an excess of wealth in order to live abroad in times of globalisation and an ever-shrinking demographic, especially considering that the two biggest English-speaking countries in Europe are also, with the noted exception of Scandanvia, the two most expensive. I would put forward that is is an abandonment of the conservative and conformed thinking of the majority of one's peers in addition to a seeing and recreation of the higher-self through newer non-material experiences is what drives people to discover foreign lands.

 

That said, one must, as has already been pointed out, consider the choice of location when considering the motives for such a relocation. Thacterite youth, for example, would be unlikley to feel at home in Berlin (insofar as much as they can ever feel "at home" living in continental Europe), just as more liberal thrillseeking individuals see Munich for what it is.

 

Fucking boring.

 

Yours, etc. etc.

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If you are not a German citizen you have absolutely no right to protest or even THINK you have a right to voice an opinion on the issue. It is simply none of your business.

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If you are not a citizen of Iraq you have no right to be there???

 

What sort of retarded being are you Seattle? You may not have noticed from the weird Goldfish bowl you live in but this site is called, 'Toytown Germany'. You are not a German citizen. Why are you voicing an opinion on people voicing an opinion and where did the free world start and end in your book. Twat.

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Well, this issue is actually something I've been wondering about generally, and is the main reason why I haven't got tooooo involved in politics since moving to Germany. My general approach has been to gripe from the sidelines as I watch Germany make the same mistakes as Britain and America already made.

 

This particular campaign against the Stadtschloss appears to be organised exclusively by expats. I don't know their personal plans, but it may well be that none of them will be around in five years' time to see the aftermath of their own campaign.

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If you are not a German citizen you have absolutely no right to protest or even THINK you have a right to voice an opinion on the issue. It is simply none of your business.

 

Well people have a right to express their opinion on the subject.

 

However I think it's pretty arrogant to tell the Berliners they're not allowed to have their Schloss back and also that they don't know what they are talking about. Most expats come here, stay a while and then move on after an average of 5 years - as many other posters here have remarked. Does that qualify them to know better than the Berliners about their own Schloss? I don't think so. Especially as the OP is banging a red drum here. I think Berlin has had enough red crap rammed down their throats over the last 50 years without more from the OP.

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I must comment as an expat but a Berliner all the same. The Schloss is the least legitimate project I can think of in Berlin during it's current economic woe. This city is my home. We are 70 billion in debt. I have been here for fifteen years and the thought of spending millions on a replica of an age gone by is galling.

 

Any parent having trouble finding a Kindergarten place, job seeker, student, visitor who can't understand why we don't have an efficient S-Bahn and the likes or of course victims of crime may feel the same.

The Schloss makes no sense in fiscal or cultural function.

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On the other hand, the location demands a high-profile building, which are expensive regardless of the precise architectural style.

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The location demands nothing other than a car park for tourist busses or a park we can all chill in so I must respectfully disagree. Cities need space to breathe and this could be such a space for art, kite flying, skate park, playground or whatever. The time of opulance for Berlin is long gone. Long long gone and when looking at the 90 Billion debt expected for 2011 the Schloss is a joke.

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Any parent having trouble finding a Kindergarten place, job seeker, student, visitor who can't understand why we don't have an efficient S-Bahn and the likes or of course victims of crime may feel the same.

The Schloss makes no sense in fiscal or cultural function.

 

Blame the lack of kindergarten spots and jobs on our red-red senate, who do nothing but repeat platitudes like "Berlin is poor but sexy" while being rabidly anti-business and anti-private initiative (cutting funding to privately organized kindergartens, for example, and to established institutions such as Die Arche in favor of more inefficient statism - e.g. their cunning plan to create thousands of publicly-funded make-work jobs).

 

Students actually have it pretty good here.

 

The S-Bahn situation is the result of criminal mismanagement by a Deutsche Bahn subsidiary and has nothing to do with city funding (although I'll admit that the senate was grossly negligent in awarding them an exclusive no-bid contract until 2017 - a situation that the European Commission is currently pursuing - source).

 

The Schloss makes perfect sense as a cultural function - as the Humboldt Forum it will house several museum collections that are currently scattered around the city (some in buildings in dire need of renovation) or sitting in storage and will also provide an incredible venue for concerts and other cultural events. As to the fiscal side, the federal coffers will be paying, not the city. Therefore, it isn't a choice between a new palace and any of the other things you've mentioned, it's a choice between accepting a half-billion-euro gift from the federal government or nothing.

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I have no problem accepting a half-billion-gift but for what?

 

 

The Schloss makes perfect sense as a cultural function - as the Humboldt Forum it will house several museum collections that are currently scattered around the city (some in building in dire need of renovation) or sitting in storage and will also provide an incredible venue for concerts and other cultural events. As to the fiscal side, the federal coffers will be paying, not the city. Therefore, it isn't a choice between a new palace and any of the other things you've mentioned, it's a choice between accepting a half-billion-euro gift from the federal government or nothing.

What happens to the buldings in dire need of renovation. Will they just be abandoned? I fail to grasp your logic as the people of Berlin will be paying for the upkeep of the fake palace and the upkeep of abandoned buildings while a private firm will reap the profits from a building constructed at Tax payers expense.

 

Build something fake. Make Private debt at social cost. All seems a bit odd and famillar at the same time. Must check my subprime links later.

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The location demands nothing other than a car park for tourist busses or a park we can all chill in so I must respectfully disagree.

 

I think Berlin deserves better than a bus park, and there is already a LOT of open space in that area, including the Lustgarten directly opposite and the Marx-Engels-Forum next door.

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Yes more open space. As much as possible. We don't need a palace in any shape or form and perhaps tell me how often you would use it? I mean come on, how many times have you used the Potsdam Palace facilities?

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I visit Potsdam 3-4 times a year, most recently at the last Schlössernacht, which was very well attended. A visit to at least one of the palaces is always on the agenda. But that doesn't have much to do with anything, since it's in another state.

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Are they the real palaces or the Legoland version of Prussian history that is planned for Berlin which it can't afford to maintain? I still have not got a reasonable response on the:

 

 

Students actually have it pretty good here.

The annual funding of universities is to be cut by 75 million euros by the end of 2009. The consequences for universities are plain to see: cutbacks in professorships and employees, less places in colleges and the closing of institutes.

 

 

What happens to the buldings in dire need of renovation. Will they just be abandoned? I fail to grasp your logic as the people of Berlin will be paying for the upkeep of the fake palace and the upkeep of abandoned buildings while a private firm will reap the profits from a building constructed at Tax payers expense.

 

Build something fake. Make Private debt at social cost. All seems a bit odd and famillar at the same time. Must check my subprime links later.

You have not addressed these facts for some reason?

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