Kindergeld for children living abroad

43 posts in this topic

I emailed the Familienkasse (or rather I got a German-speaking colleague to do it for me) and explained my situation - me living in Germany, wife&child in UK. They sent me several forms:

 

i) Antrag auf Kindergeld (Child Benefit form) - in English

ii) Employers Certificate, for my employer to fill out - in German

iii) Form E401 - in English. Parts of this need to be filled out by the "population registration office or administration competent in matters of civil status in the country of residence of the members of the family". mmm...

iv) Form E411 - in English. Needs to be filled out by me, Familienkasse, and I'm assuming Child Benefit Office in UK since my current UK child benefit needs to be verified.

 

The E411 and E401 forms are from the The Administrative Commission on Social Security for Migrant Workers, which I believe is an EU organisation. I would be interested to hear other peoples experiences on claiming kindergeld, and whether you too had to fill out all these forms (hopefully it will be worth it eventually!).

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I'm still having an ongoing battle with Kindergeld. My daughter lives with me here in Germany. The UK have filled out the E411 saying that there is no claim in the UK as it closed in March 2008. BUT... Because her father still lives in the UK the authorities here say he could claim in the UK, although he hasn't and wont. Therefore, they have deducted the UK child benefit amount from the Kindergeld and paid me the difference. I don't quite understand what else I can do as they are just saying over and over that he has the right to. The fact that she lives here with me doesn't seem to make any difference. Is there any other single parents out there that have come across this problem with a parent still being in the UK?

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the authorities here say he could claim in the UK, although he hasn't and wont. Therefore, they have deducted the UK child benefit amount from the Kindergeld and paid me the difference.

If you were to get a sworn statement from the child's father (or better still, from the UK authorities confirming information given earlier) that he is not claiming any child benefit in the UK then they would have to pay you the full amount, no? Or is that too logical and straightforward a solution to satisfy German bureaucracy?

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Just spoke to UK Child Benefit - they say that because father is UK tax paying it is he should be claiming in the UK and that is why the German's are saying he could claim. If he claims (chances are we will never see the money) they only backdate 3 months - we have been sorting this out for well over a year now and moved here Jan 08 which is when everyone else who are married would get their money from. What a nightmare. The UK are sending a letter saying they have no claim, I'm going to keep trying to get the germans to give me the backdated money. I can try and get a letter out of her dad but it pisses me off after all these years that I have to beg him for something and it really will be beg as he isn't the most helpful of people, hence leaving the country.

 

There must be someone out there that has the same situation. Any single parents out there...

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Back in Ireland all the eastern europeans who were working in Ireland, were claiming childrens allowance for their children in their home countries, an example would be a Polish man working in Ireland but his wife and children were back home in Poland, but he would be entitled to Irish childrens allowance as he was tax payer in Ireland, there is legal difference between a benefit and a welfare payment, which means that as a tax payer you have a legal right to all benefits that other tax payers receive, but may not have a right to welfare payments . This was based upon a ruling on E.U. treaty law in the European court. Generally Germany is really bad at EU rights but this is due to it being a federal state, and all the confusion of federal and local laws and implimentation of EU rules at a national level then several years later at a local state level.

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.... I'm going to keep trying to get the germans to give me the backdated money...

 

Dotty, keep on working on it! I had some problems (not similar to yours, but due to the EU rules) to get Kindergeld for one of my kids and it took over a year and a lot of confusing correspondance before I got it approved.

But as soon as it was approved I automatically got the backdated money (they even remembered to add the €100 special Zuschuss from January last year). So, I wouldn't worry about the backdating.

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Dotty: you are in a bad situation and I can understand that you feel mistreated or being treated unjustly... but if you just check out the other thread going on today about Kindergeld and Fraud you will hopefully understand why German authorities may be really wary about your claims - especially if, as I understood your descrtipion, the father might still try and collect in the Uk without anyone being the wiser...

I hope you'll find a solution and get the money you deserve, but I can also understand the German authorities in this matter.

 

Cheerio

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German tax paying parents can receive Kindergeld for their children residing outside of Germany in another EWR country I know. Where can I find a list of those countries?

 

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

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Kindergeld können Ausländer auch ohne gültigen Aufenthaltstitel in folgenden Fällen erhalten:

- Staatsangehörige der Europäischen Union und des EWR sowie ihre Familienangehörigen.

- Schweizerische Arbeitnehmer, die in Deutschland beschäftigt sind.

- Staatsangehörige von Staaten, mit denen zwischenstaatliche Abkommen bestehen: Dies sind Bosnien- Herzegowina, Serbien und Montenegro, Marokko, Tunesien und Türkei.

 

So EWR citizens, an contracted employee of Switzerland working in Germany, as well as Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Morocco, Tunisia, and Turkey. No residence permit required.

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Hi,

This is an old thread, but any advice would be welcome.

Since August 2015, I have been trying to get information from the Arbeitsagentur in Berlin, where I live and work, about Kindergeld eligibility for my daughter who stays with her mother (and my wife) in OUR household in the UK (we are not eligible for child benefit in the UK and have provided supporting documentation to the Arbeitsagentur)

10 months later, I finally got a response from the Familienkasse (Bayern Nord ?? do the handle specify cases over there ?). And here is their response:

 

Vorliegend handelt es sich um einen überstaatlichen Fall, in welchem nach Art. 60 Abs. 1 Satz 2 der Verordnung  (EG) Nr 987/2009 die Situation der gesamte Familie zu berucksichtigen ist , als würden alle beteiligten Personen unter die deutschen Rechtsvorschriften fallen. Somit kann auch ein im Ausland lebender Elternteil die Vorausetzung des § 62 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 EStG erfüllen und muss bei der Prüfung der Anspruchs konkurrenzen nach § 64 EStG einbezogen werden.

Erfüllen für ein Kind mehrere Personen die Anspruchsvoraussetzung, so wird das Kindergeld derjenigen Person gewährt, die das Kind in ihren Haushalt aufgenommen hat (§ 64 Abs. 2 S. 1 EStG).

Nach den hier vorliegenden Unterlagen lebt Ihr kind nicht in Ihrem Haushalt , sondern bei  der Kindersmutter in dem Vereinigten Königreich

Daher kann nach Art. 60 Abs. 1 Satz 2 der Verordnung (EG) Nr 987/2009 in Verbindung mit § 64 EStG keine Festsetzung des Kindergeldes an Sie erfolgen.

 

So I would understand that whenever the child does't live in Germany, he/she is not eligible for Kindergeld. Does anyone have similar experience ?

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25 minutes ago, RomB said:

[...]

 

So I would understand that whenever the child does't live in Germany, he/she is not eligible for Kindergeld. Does anyone have similar experience ?

 

RomB, that's not what the response of the Familenkasse says. What is says is that when several people fulfill the eligibility criteria for child benefit, the benefit is paid to the person with whom the child lives, and that's not you. Unfortunately, they are just saying "we are not giving the money to YOU", but they leave up in the air the question of whether they should actually be paying your wife, or whether your wife should get child benefit in the UK.

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We both have NI and are paying tax in the UK (in addition to having Krankenversicherung and paying tax in Germany as well for me - it is complicated to be working and living in 2 countries). But we are not eligible for child benefit in the UK because the threshold is very low.

 

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1 hour ago, RomB said:

We both have NI and are paying tax in the UK (in addition to having Krankenversicherung and paying tax in Germany as well for me - it is complicated to be working and living in 2 countries). But we are not eligible for child benefit in the UK because the threshold is very low.

 

What threshold are you talking about?

 

UK child benefit is universal, although you will have to pay tax on it if you or your partner earn over £50,000 p.a.

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Thanks for the link. Unfortunately in the UK we are not eligible because my wife earns more than 50k.

As for me, I have a full time job in Germany where I pay tax and besides the fact that my child is living in the UK, I should be eligible for Kindergeld in Germany

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There is a 50k threshold in the UK: it is possible to get tax benefit, but than have to pay it back fully as tax. Hence there is no benefit.

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It is only when income reaches 60 k that it is all gobbled up by the tax (1 percent of CB for every 100 over 50,000).

 

Your wife IS eligible for child benefit in the UK, but has opted out of getting it as she is then taxed on it and has no gain. 

 

Which is not quite the same as not being eligible.

 

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Child benefit is paid to the parent with whom the child lives, i.e. your wife. Since both she and the child are resident in the UK, the UK benefits system applies. 

 

I cannot see why you would think you were entitled to Kindergeld in Germany?

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