Urlaubsbescheinigung from former employer

[Expat Mat 16]

Slightly different topic.

 

My current employer wants an Urlaubsbescheinigung from my previous employer as I started here on 1st July. Is this standard procedure?

It just seems a bit odd to me that they want to know how many days I took off with my previous employer.

[Wizadora 423]

It is standard, you're former employer shouldn't have any issue giving you it, there is some legal reason for it, someone cleverer could probably tell you what it is.

[Gen 2,454]

They need to know if you've used up your year's vacation allowance or not.

[HansJans 43]

cool...i plan to change jobs in November this year and have 20 unused holidays...can i carry them over to my new company and have 50 days after my probezeit...will be interesting to know!

[Gen 2,454]

Good grief. No, they don't add up. Your new job is obligated to give you holidays according to your contract in proportion to how much of the year you've spent there -- if you start in November, you have November and December's worth of holidays, so 2/12 of what's in your contract, that your new job will owe you -- assuming you already took 10/12 of your holiday days while working the old job.

 

The vacation days are for you personally to rest and recuperate, that's why they can travel from job to job. They don't add up -- the ones you took are subtracted from your total yearly allowance.

 

There are special rules for freelancers committing permicide -- if they start work before half the calendar year is over, they are guaranteed a whole year's vacation for less than a year's employment -- because freelancers don't have "vacation", thus didn't get the necessary r+r. Lots of personnel people don't know that though. A lawyer can tell you what paragraph to quote to them, but they might still not believe you.

[Expat Mat 16]

Thanks all. I managed to get one from my previous boss without any problem.

 

Interesting point about freelancers committing permicide. Worth remembering, that.

[Guest]

Hi there,

 

I just got a job offer and my employer wants an original copy of the Urlaubsbescheinigung. I have never worked in Germany (or anywhere else in Europe) before. This is my first job here. So what's the procedure? Do I just explain the sitaution in an email or is there something more official that I have to do?

 

Thanks.

[El Jeffo 42,120]

Start with an e-mail to the person who asked for the Urlaubsbescheinigung. If that doesn't solve the problem, they'll surely tell you what you have to do next.

[darksk98 1]

Hi All,

 

I would like to re-open this topic.

 

My new company wants Urlaubsbescheinigung from my former company. Well, it is not a problem giving it but I have a different situation.

 

I am joining my new company in March 2014. I took some extra holidays from my previous company in January ( 7 days) - these holidays were booked well in advance in 2013 so I couldnt cancel them. Also, do to health reasons, I was not regularly sitting 40 Hours per week. (say sometimes 35 hours, 38 hours) and the remaining hours got accumulated and is now around -40 hours.

 

My former company will give me less money in my last salary to deduct 40 hours worth of salary. But I am worried if they will mention about it in my Urlaubsbescheinigung?

 

Will it affect my holidays from my new company?

 

Please let me know about it.

Thanks in advance,

MK

[White Rose of Yorkshire 1,088]

The 40 hours your ex employer deducted from your salary was because the company had paid you 40 hours for which you had not worked so wanted the money back. This has nothing to do with anyone else and will not appear on a Urlabsbescheingigung because it has nothing to do with your holiday entitlement.

[White Rose of Yorkshire 1,088]

For anyone else who is interested in this thread, I have compiled some information about the German Urlaubsbescheinigung.

 

According to Geman law, every full- time working person who has worked for 12 months between January and December in the same year is entitled to 24 days paid holiday per year. If you change jobs between Janaury and December in the same year your ex-employer must state how many days holiday he has given you so your next employer knows how many days you have left until you have taken your 24 days holiday.

 

§ 1 Urlaubsanspruch

Jeder Arbeitnehmer hat in jedem Kalenderjahr Anspruch auf bezahlten Erholungsurlaub.

 

3 Dauer des Urlaubs

(1) Der Urlaub beträgt jährlich mindestens 24 Werktage.

 

§ 6 Ausschluß von Doppelansprüchen

(1) Der Anspruch auf Urlaub besteht nicht, soweit dem Arbeitnehmer für das laufende Kalenderjahr bereits von

einem früheren Arbeitgeber Urlaub gewährt worden ist.

(2) Der Arbeitgeber ist verpflichtet, bei Beendigung des Arbeitsverhältnisses dem Arbeitnehmer eine

Bescheinigung über den im laufenden Kalenderjahr gewährten oder abgegoltenen Urlaub auszuhändigen.

 

Example. You worked for employer A between 01.01.-31.08. so are entitled to 16 days holiday 24 ./. 12 x 8 = 16. You are entitled to 24 days holdiay per year according to German employment laws so your new employer must give you 8 days holiday for the months September-December.

 

According to what profession/trade you have it could well be that a workers council agreement states that you are entitled to 30 days per year.

 

Another important point, because it explicily states that the holiday is an “Erholungsurlaub” see paragraph 1 above. You are not allowed to work during your holiday

 

§ 8 Erwerbstätigkeit während des Urlaubs

Während des Urlaubs darf der Arbeitnehmer keine dem Urlaubszweck widersprechende Erwerbstätigkeit leisten.

 

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bundesrecht/burlg/gesamt.pdf

[pog451 2,486]

 

My former company will give me less money in my last salary to deduct 40 hours worth of salary. But I am worried if they will mention about it in my

 

The hours will have nothing to with your holiday and basically your holiday entitlement will be entitlement @ new company minus days taken@ old company. Note that if you start in March,you won be entitled to your full yearly quota.

[pog451 2,486]

 

According to what profession/trade you have it could well be that a workers council agreement states that you are entitled to 30 days per year.

 

Doesn't have to have anything to do with a workers council. Your contract can state any number you and your employer agree on as long as its >24. I don't think I've ever had less than 30 days but that was my contract.

 

 

Another important point, because it explicily states that the holiday is an “Erholungsurlaub” see paragraph 1 above. You are not allowed to work during your holiday

 

Not *entirely* true. If you can convincingly argue that the work you did was relaxing to you, you can. For instance, if you spend the holiday being a diving or ski instructor or similar. What you can't do is go on holiday from your job as a plasterer and go and work for your brothers demolition company.

[White Rose of Yorkshire 1,088]

@pog451

 

My statement was 100% true because of the following reasons.

 

The definition of an Erholungsurlaub is a holiday where you relax and restore your energy levels so will be top fit and able to do your job to 100% after your holiday.

 

§ 1 Urlaubsanspruch

Jeder Arbeitnehmer hat in jedem Kalenderjahr Anspruch auf bezahlten ERHOLUNGSURLAUB

 

§ 8 Erwerbstätigkeit während des Urlaubs

Während des Urlaubs darf der Arbeitnehmer keine dem Urlaubszweck widersprechende Erwerbstätigkeit leisten.

 

There have been numerous threads here about working for two employers at the same time. It usually states in your contract that your employer must consent to this. He is not allowed to consent to you working during a holiday because you are not allowed to work during this time see §8.

 

What happens if you have an accident while you are working when you are supposed to be on holiday? Do you really believe an employer or a health insurance company will pay for your sick leave when they find out that you have been working as a ski-ing instructor during a ERHOLUNGSHURLAUB and have broken your arm or leg?

 

What usually happens in such a case is that the person concerned is sacked on the spot.

[Keleth 9,279]

 

The 40 hours your ex employer deducted from your salary was because the company had paid you 40 hours for which you had not worked so wanted the money back.

 

I presume this varies from company to company depending on the betriebsvereinbarung ?,as I know in our firm if we leave with plus hours the firm must pay us for them or let us have the time off before the agreed termination but if we have minus hours then the firm loses out and we do not have to repay them.

[pog451 2,486]

 

The definition of an Erholungsurlaub is a holiday where you relax and restore your energy levels so will be top fit and able to do your job to 100% after your holiday.

 

Yes. Working in an office and then doing four weeks as a ski instructor is a pretty good way of relaxing. look at it this way - if you went skiing for four weeks you wouldn't be any more or less knackered than teaching it.

 

 

There have been numerous threads here about working for two employers at the same time. It usually states in your contract that your employer must consent to this.

 

Yes, although this has nothing to do with holiday

 

 

He is not allowed to consent to you working during a holiday because you are not allowed to work during this time see §8.

 

Incorrect.

 

 

What usually happens in such a case is that the person concerned is sacked on the spot.

 

Totally incorrect. Its almost impossible to be "sacked on the spot" in Germany. Taking a job your employers didn't want you to do would be at most an "Abmahnung", and then only if it was clear that the job you had taken was clearly against the "Urlaubszweck".

 

Its not an easy subject and better to lie on the beach on holiday, but see my examples for exceptions.

[darksk98 1]

Thanks a lot everyone! and Thanks White Rose for detailed information.

I am glad to see a quick feedback from all of you!

 

To add to Keleth's comment: I spoke with my Manager yesterday and he presumes that some money will be deducted from my February's salary. I am OK with it as long as I can leave the company end of February :-) But atleast my old company wont mentioned about my deducted hours. If they do, I can argue on it.

[White Rose of Yorkshire 1,088]

@darsk98: Pleased to help you out and glad things seem to have worked out well for you. I work in Human Resources and often have to deal with such things.

 

If anyone is interested in German court proceedings, go to the local Arbeitsgericht and see for yourself how things are done in Germany. You don't have to register or pay anything, just walk in the room and take a seat. Sometimes the things you see and hear there are a lot better than anything you can watch on TV.

[pog451 2,486]

 

I work in Human Resources

 

Oh dear.

[Keleth 9,279]

 

Oh dear.

 

I always think that when I hear HR.

However you have countered all her arguments without actually using any links to show that what you say is true.