What constitutes Holocaust denial?

137 posts in this topic

I certainly wasn't accusing you of such a thing. And I'm well aware and critical of it's use as a tool, by both sides. His use, outside of his home market, is pretty stupid though as it only causes isolation.

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I find this whole Holocaust thing very interesting: I was brought up all my life about the story of six million Jews gassed to death in concentration camps some of which I have been to mainly because I had the chance being at the Military at the time. But now I am having a few doubts about the whole thing especially when I see videos like this:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St2sM1TwEx4

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Many Holocaust deniers come from Britain. I wonder, why?

There was a one guy who even had guts to sell the tour in Auschwitz. The Polish government wanted to ban entry to him, but couldn't because UK was in the EU.

Now with Brexit we can kick those out of EU, hopefully.

 

PS TT is a German forum and its admins are obliged to delete unlawful posts because otherwise they will be in trouble. Please refrain from posting those unlawful posts, have respect to voluntary work of moderators and admins.

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5 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

 

I need lots of people who believe random videos on the internet.

 

If you're taking recommendations, I know of a conspiracy theorist and propagandist on TT whose seen a vast amount of youtube videos and websites on an array of conspiracy topics that's blown his mind.

 

 

 

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I wonder, if deniers have alternative explanations what happened to the Jews. The numbers are very easy to verify with high accuracy: almost every person of Jewish origin can name a relative who at some point disappeared without information. And also any German person can name an acquaintance who at some point disappeared.

 

Official propaganda was talking about deportation somewhere to Bohemian Forest (present Czech Republic), it was easy to believe since back then it was impossible to verify. What explanation of sudden disappearance of Jewish those people have today? Aliens?

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I find this whole Holocaust thing very interesting: I was brought up all my life about the story of six million Jews gassed to death in concentration camps some of which I have been to mainly because I had the chance being at the Military at the time. But now I am having a few doubts about the whole thing

 

Hot potato. Best to let sleeping dogs lie. The suffering of the Jews under Hitler is undeniably true, still there are no doubt a lot of truths and lies which are yet to be discovered and acknowledged. 

 

I watched the video and lots of it makes sense and is no doubt true, still it is yet another YouTube video, which is cut and shaped to promote a certain agenda. For instance the old German woman mentioned in the film, who was imprisoned for 10 months for denying the Holocaust, is a longstanding right-wing extremist, who had been married to a member of the Nazi party, a fact which was obviously deliberately ommited in the film.

 

I would instead recommend reading serious books, for instance Israeli journalist Tom Segev's "The Seventh Million" for detailed background information concerning Zionist interest in promoting Jewish emigration to Palestine and later instrumentalisation and exploitation of the Holocaust. It's a very thick book with lots of footnotes. Another author worth reading is Norman Finkelstein. Their books, though, cause great controversy. The truth after decades of lies and manipulation is difficult to handle.

 

The documentary film "Die Wohnung" (The Flat) is worth watching. I saw it a few years ago on ARTE in German. Israelis are becoming more and more critical of their own past and manipulated history. This film, which uncovers the relationship of the producer's grandparents close friendship to German Nazi official, Leopold von Mildenstein, head of the SS Office for Jewish Affairs in Palestine would never have been dared to be released several years earlier, although it is also documented in "51 documents" by Lenni Brenner, a book I read several years earlier, which caused great hysterics and denial in Zionist circles. 

 

The Holocaust is a very sensitive subject. Every author has his/her own personal agenda. Tread carefully, speak only the truth backed by evidenced and approved documentation, and be prepared to be shot down over and over again. 

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Not everything in "official history" is true (thinking of Colombus origin, for example), but the holocaust existed, is well documented and that is undeniable.

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I find this whole Holocaust thing very interesting: I was brought up all my life about the story of six million Jews gassed to death in concentration camps some of which I have been to mainly because I had the chance being at the Military at the time. But now I am having a few doubts about the whole thing

 

So you say you've been to concentration camps because you "had the chance being at the Military at the time". That made more sense last night, when your nationality was still listed as British (although your poor grammar would have given you away), but makes absolutely no sense now that you claim to be Brazilian.

 

2/10. Weak troll.

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Actually even with British it doesn't compute because all death camps (Vernichtungslager) were located in occupied Poland which was under Soviets after 1945. What he could visit in Germany is work camp (Arbeitslager) where occupants were mostly political prisoners and POWs. Of course one couldn't see any traces of Holocaust in Arbeitslagers.

 

 

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Thanks for your replies, it seems this is a very sensitive subject. Thanks bramble on your recommendations.

 

I also recommend: JFK to 911 Everything Is A Rich Man's Trick. also on Youtube although it is pretty long.

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6 hours ago, bramble said:

Hot potato. Best to let sleeping dogs lie. The suffering of the Jews under Hitler is undeniably true, still there are no doubt a lot of truths and lies which are yet to be discovered and acknowledged. 

****

The Holocaust is a very sensitive subject. Every author has his/her own personal agenda. Tread carefully, speak only the truth backed by evidenced and approved documentation, and be prepared to be shot down over and over again. 

A "very sensitive subject"?  Fancy that, I guess that's what happens when you kill millions of people.  Not sure what you're trying to say here, but you sure seem to seem suggesting some doubt about the extent of the Holocaust based on so-called "truths and lies" and "personal agendas"?  Really?   You say that  a lot of the video is "no doubt true"--frankly I tried to watch it but decided it was nonsense after the first three minutes, with its weighty questions about "if the nazis wanted to kill all the jews, why didn't they kill them all on the first day?" etc. (Hint--because the Germans needed the Jews and other prisoners as slave labor for their economy).  

 

 

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46 minutes ago, naberlin said:

A "very sensitive subject"?  Fancy that, I guess that's what happens when you kill millions of people.  Not sure what you're trying to say here, but you sure seem to seem suggesting some doubt about the extent of the Holocaust based on so-called "truths and lies" and "personal agendas"?  Really?   You say that  a lot of the video is "no doubt true"--frankly I tried to watch it but decided it was nonsense after the first three minutes, with its weighty questions about "if the nazis wanted to kill all the jews, why didn't they kill them all on the first day?" etc. (Hint--because the Germans needed the Jews and other prisoners as slave labor for their economy).  

 

You probably didn't notice that I was critical of the video, which unlike you, I watched till the end. I never disputed the Holocaust, yet some myths have been debunked, like the soap and lampshades nonsense amongst other things. I suggest you take a look at the links I provided before you shoot me down. The books are well researched and the Jewish authors are not Holocaust deniers, but historians with questioning minds. They have had to defend their critical historical research. Here's another book worth reading "The Holocaust in American Life" by Peter Novick, another Jew. 

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16 hours ago, bramble said:

I watched the video and lots of it makes sense and is no doubt true, still it is yet another YouTube video, which is cut and shaped to promote a certain agenda.

I guess you could call your statement above critical, but frankly it is rather equivocal.

 

Yes, I admit not watching the whole video, because I considered any video which begins by posing questions such as "If Hitler wanted to kill all the Jews, why did any survive?" and "Where are all the bodies?" not worth spending more than an hour of my time to watch--three minutes was quite enough.

 

I  looked at the books mentioned in your links, but as far as I can tell they focus on exploitation/utilization of the Holocaust by Israel/Israelis and the American jewish community to further their interests and not whether or not the Holocaust occurred.  I suppose that is a separate topic but not one that I'm particularly interested in.

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To be able to criticise a film you have to watch it. There were plenty of bodies in the video. It put into question the way some film and photo materials are being used by memorial institutions and the movie industry. But the film was using the same kind of methods, to promote a certain agenda, which is what I criticised. People have a right to question history, but I prefer honest and sincere investigation and this is why I steered the poster away from the video and recommended the books, because the authors using a different approach also critically investigate the rights and wrongs of the way the Holocaust is being portrayed and misused to further certain interests. It isn't really a separate topic at all, it's intermingled, which is what the books investigate, with historical references to Nazi Germany, Zionism and the Holocaust. End of discussion here for me. 

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12 minutes ago, bramble said:

People have a right to question history,

 

I agree with this 100%, but my understanding in this case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you are not allowed to question the official narrative of this subject by LAW in this country and many others in the EU. As far as I am aware, questioning the official narrative is not yet a crime in the UK which is maybe why so many of the deniers originate there. 

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On 11/6/2016, 12:34:13, said:

I find this whole Holocaust thing very interesting: I was brought up all my life about the story of six million Jews gassed to death in concentration camps some of which I have been to mainly because I had the chance being at the Military at the time. But now I am having a few doubts about the whole thing


Are you a Holocaust Denier ? 

If you are (and I don't know you) then shame on you, and you should know better !!

And If you are not then let me tell you somethings from my life:

I have known a handful of old jewish people from back home (USA) who were still alive (as for today I am not so sure), they never made a big deal out of the Holocaust but every time I have seen their tattoo number (on the wrist) I was the one who start asking question: I have got a lot of information and stories, all fully backed up by artifacts and old B&W photos that have survived (Which later I also found evidence on books that were backed by similar stories of other survivers) - those 5-6 million people did not tattoo an ugly serial number on their wrist out of boredom, they did not murder them self, they did not build huge concentration camps, gas chambers, and human burning furnaces, they did not plant and hide the billions of nazi regime artifacts around the world, they did not bribe hundreds ex-nazi people to testify about things that were done to the millions of jews (and also German, Polish, etc.. christians that were not "pure enough" for the nazi ideology) et etc..

Yes it is sometimes sound annoying if people talk about it "too much" (how much is too much for you to make sure such thing will never happen again?).

Yes we can not keep blaming the new people (grandchildren of parents whose some grandparents were involved), we need to believe that the new generation is not as ignorant as the people who have chosen the nazis and supported them.

All of that does not mean anyone can claim that this thing "have never happened" because it is simply stupidity and insanity combined: since we all know (so I hope) it did happen.

Doesn't matter how many millions of dollars neo-nazis will spend on filming propaganda, brain washing lie telling videos, doesn't matter how much people will try to destroy evidence, it will never be erased.

I trust about 95% of the Germens that they know far better these days, but we can not ignore the past. sorry

cheers

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