Roma refugees from Romania

631 posts in this topic

you'd ban it for moslems, jews, zoroastrians, bahai and anyone with acute phimosis or other medical reasons for circumcision?

 

I've had a few exes who were circumcised (one electively when he was 23) but absolutely no-one who have ever bleated on about it being mutilation and the kind of horror that one or two (and it is just one or two) people on here continually allege it to be.

 

TBH, if I had kids of my own I would likely do what my parents did and only opt for infant circumcision where it is indicated medically (one of my male relatives was circumcised due to severe phimosis, the rest of us weren't)

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you'd ban it for moslems, jews, zoroastrians, bahai and anyone with acute phimosis or other medical reasons for circumcision?

Did you actually read my post? Especially the part where I said "unless medically necessary"?

 

I'd have no problem banning it for religious groups.

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Does anybody have any stats on how often male circumcision causes permanent damage? I think the risk of it occurring is enough to ban circumcision on children. As others have said, leave the choice open for adults. If they decide it's for them, leave them to it. I think it's mutliation in the sense of disfigurement - unnecessarily removing part of the body. However, it is not equitable with the mutilation of fgm and that was the point I had been trying to make. I took this thread off topic as I thought it was important to point that out - but this was only meant to be an aside. I'm sure there are many threads on fgm and circumcision already - perhaps any further discussion on the matter should be taken there? As far as I know, the Roma do not circumcise their offspring, male or female.

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A bit like religion in itself really.

Like people decide for themselves when they are adults.

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Several of my statements or the single statement you quoted? What other statements are incorrect? The above quoted statement is not incorrect - what is incorrect is comparing African fgm to US male cicrumcision, as you pointed out. I agree with you as to the latter. However if you have read my comments and what I was responding to, you will have realised that I only included infection rates because the person I was speaking with brought it up.

The comment is incorrect as it relates to a DIFFERENCE between male circumcision and FGM - the vast majority of male circumcisions are ALSO not carried out in sanitary conditions - I've even posted a picture on the circ thread (of one in Turkey as it happens).

I pointed out this one as an example - I urge you to examine each of your statements to educate yourself rather than have me point out which other fallacies you are pandering -

 

In contrast, circumcised women typically cannot enjoy sex nor experience orgasm; circumcised women will have serious permanent injuries as a result of the circumcision;

 

Female genital cutting (Wikipedia)

 

 

A five-year study of 300 women and 100 men in Sudan found that "sexual desire, pleasure, and orgasm are experienced by the majority of women who have been subjected to this extreme sexual mutilation, in spite of their being culturally bound to hide these experiences."[31]

As to whether permanent injury results - well you yourself refer to it as mutilation (of the sexual organs) - could that be other than serious?

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in parnells little world the only true outrages are failing to realise that male circumcision is an abomination or citicising the Catholic church. Anyone who does either is a 'bigot'. But mount an irate racist tirade against Roma, suggest that gay men deserve to get beaten up or that women are second class - and you are a-okay in his books it would seem.

We both know that you are deeply troubled - that you've gone out of your way here to attack me - and I've responded in kind - and you've gone crying on this very board that I had beaten you up - when Don said clearly you had no idea what a good kicking was. If you continually wish to portray yourself as pathetic and only occassionally bother with logic to your posts you shall be treated in the same manner.

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parnell, again I have to point out the aspects of my posts that you have wilfully ignored.

 

 

As to whether permanent injury results - well you yourself refer to it as mutilation (of the sexual organs) - could that be other than serious?

- post 526,

 

 

I think it's mutliation in the sense of disfigurement - unnecessarily removing part of the body. However, it is not equitable with the mutilation of fgm

-post 523

 

Some stats and info on fgm:

http://www.path.org/files/FGM-The-Facts.htm

 

 

Women who have undergone FGM are twice as likely to die during childbirth and are more likely to give birth to a stillborn child than other women. Obstructed labor can also cause brain damage to the infant and complications for the mother (including fistula formation, an abnormal opening between the vagina and the bladder or the vagina and the rectum, which can lead to incontinence). Among 33 infibulated mothers followed at Somalia's Benadir Hospital in 1988, all required extensive episiotomies during childbirth.

 

 

In the Sudan, 20-25 percent of female infertility has been linked to FGM complications

 

 

83 percent of women who had undergone FGM would require medical attention at some point in their lives for a condition resulting from the procedure

 

 

physical complications from FGM often impede sexual enjoyment. FGM destroys much or all of the vulval nerve endings, delaying arousal or impairing orgasm.38 Lacerations, loss of skin elasticity, or development of neuroma can lead to painful intercourse. In a 1993 Sudanese study, 5.5 percent of women interviewed experienced painful intercourse while 9.3 percent of them reported having difficult or impossible penetration.

In 1981, 1,545 Sudanese women who had undergone the operation were interviewed. Fifty percent of them said that they did not enjoy sex at all and only accepted it as a duty.

 

 

FGM is still predominantly performed by "traditional" female circumcisers (91 percent in Côte d'Ivoire, 95 percent in Eritrea, and 88 percent in Mali). Typically, it is performed with sharp stones, broken glasses, scissors, or unsterilized razor blades without anesthesia.

Health providers are increasingly performing FGM. In Egypt, girls are three times more likely (54.8 percent) to have FGM done by health providers than did their mothers (17.3 percent).Although this trend might reduce the pain and/or the risk of infection, it will not prevent the other complications.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/...60602171554.htm

 

 

The study found that women who have had Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) are significantly more likely to experience difficulties during childbirth and that their babies are more likely to die as a result of the practice.

Any further discussion on this should be brought to another thread

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Just to get back on track for a second the Roma are going for dogs and cats big style in NK. Please if you are a pet owner don't leave your animal tied up outside the bar or supermarket. The Police tried to retrieve a dog in my street yesterday evening and eventually did which was a great but the kid who took it was underage so there was nothing to be done. Next.

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And why are Roma supposedly kidnapping pets in Neukölln prey tell...and any link from the local press?

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It’s quite an interesting story and nothing to do with diet. There are certain unscrupulous individuals who buy the pets for research and animal testing for export to other European and non European countries. A five year old dog is worth more than a five month old dog as they have matured so to speak.

 

As for the local press in NK that would be the latest Aldi Flyer through the letter box. You could however go round and look at the peoples press which means lampposts decorated with photos of lost cats and dogs.

 

The ones that left the front supermarket or bar didn’t run away.

 

The Roma refused to let the Police in as per usual of course. The kid who stole the dog was not taking a puppy because he was lonely, it was a Sky Terrier about five years old and only after a rather nasty discussion did the pet owner get the dog back. No charges as per usual they’ll be at it again tomorrow. I know this sounds unlikely but take a look at the lost pet posters drastic increase or come and walk the streets in this part of the world.

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It’s quite an interesting story and nothing to do with diet. There are certain unscrupulous individuals who buy the pets for research

utter bollocks. if you knew anything about vivisection you would know that in Europe the testing of cosmetics etc is not allowed for animals and where it is allowed, for the limited testing of pharmaceuticals the rules stipulate that only chronic pure laboratory breeds of mainly rats or mice (and some limited other species) can be used.

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There's more to the press in Berlin than Aldi flyers.

The prevelence of missing cats and dogs posters is not evidence that Roma are kidnapping animals.

And one neighbour's neighbour told me tale is not acceptable as evidence.

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especially when the individual posting it has substantial form for inflated overexaggerated antiziganism ...

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utter bollocks. if you knew anything about vivisection you would know that in Europe the testing of cosmetics etc is not allowed for animals and where it is allowed, for the limited testing of pharmaceuticals the rules stipulate that only chronic pure laboratory breeds of mainly rats or mice (and some limited other species) can be used.

Why does so much nonsense have to come from Ludwigsvorstadt.

 

Anyway anyone who understands the concept of animal testing will know that certain companies in certain parts of Europe do not test the cosmetic product under the name of the producer but rather they test the ingredients to keep the producers back free. They test them on animals such as cats, dogs, hamsters and whatever else they can get. Stuff like putting it in their eyes and making them ingest it.

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And one neighbour's neighbour told me tale is not acceptable as evidence.

No, I witnessed the incident. It's not the first time. But I know you will deny it. Odd... and why is this thread still called, 'Roma refugees from Romania'., when it's about economic speculators here on a tourist visa that has run out.

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Why does so much nonsense have to come from Ludwigsvorstadt.

 

Anyway anyone who understands the concept of animal testing will know that certain companies in certain parts of Europe do not test the cosmetic product under the name of the producer but rather they test the ingredients to keep the producers back free. They test them on animals such as cats, dogs, hamsters and whatever else they can get. Stuff like putting it in their eyes and making them ingest it.

any company doing that and presenting the data as a means to get the ingredient licensed will be barred from marketing it in the EU you fool. God, I swear your whole world view peobably comes from neonazi flyers sometimes.

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No, I witnessed the incident. It's not the first time. But I know you will deny it.

All the "evidence" you bring up on this thread is personal allegations and not verifiable.

Given the fact that you've got more "previous" than a re-run of The Sweeney, you'll have to get used to people taking your "evidence" with a pinch of salt.

 

You supposedly witnessed an argument about a pet, allegedly by Roma and suppsedly not first the first time

ad draw from that the conclusion that Roma are sealing cats and dogs en masse for vivisection.

 

If it is widespread, where are the press reports?

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So the products can't be sold in China or India? Tiny markets I tell you.

 

Apart from that have you ever researched how Body Shop get their stuff through? Remember I mentioned the ingredients?

 

Since when were Nazis interested in this sort of stuff? I think you are getting very desperate. Every single person who has posted a personal experience is shot down by the liberal Nazis who have gone so far left they are now right in every philosophical sense. The oddness of this is they encourage the ignorance of the right to follow through to complete the circle.

 

Adds: It's a Europe wide problem,

 

"Lucy Hunter, Sainsbury's Pet Insurance Manager, said: "It's a huge worry that so many cats and dogs are going missing, and very alarming that such a large number of pet owners believe their pet was stolen. Given our findings and the fact that the Pets Bureau(3) says that a third of dogs reported as missing are recorded as stolen, pet-knapping is a very real crime that should be taken seriously".

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Since when were Nazis interested in this sort of stuff? I think you are getting very desperate.

There's a significant crossover between some of the more happy clappy sections of the green / animal rights movement and fascism.

 

 

Every single person who has posted a personal experience is shot down by the liberal Nazis

Liberal Nazi is a contradiction in terms. Make your mind up.

 

I have not denied some people have bad experiences with Roma. I have.

I have also had good experiences with Roma

 

And I also try and understand WHY a section of Roma are involved in (generally) petty crime

 

 

who have gone so far left they are now right in every philosophical sense.

The oddness of this is they encourage the ignorance of the right to follow through to complete the circle.

The allesgation that the left are "so far left they are on the right" is neither new nor sustainable.

The second line makes no sense.

 

You've disproved your argument instanty due to the fact that BtC and I, despite respecting each other and being friends,

hold different political views and have been to know to argue about them.

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