Roma refugees from Romania

631 posts in this topic

 

... Denmark is about the most liberal left-friendly country you could imagine ...

Are you kidding? I drove on the left there once and an oncoming driver flashed his headlights and honked his horn at me in a most aggressive way

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There are many Roma and Sinti being German citizens and living in Germany. Best would be if those Romanian Roma could establish a family link to any of them and find help from them. Other than that the legal problem is they entered the country on a tourist visa and are therefore not eligible to public support like welfare monies. They have to find jobs to support themselves. Applying for asylum will be a tough case. Although maybe it will finally start awareness and public debate of the human rights issues of Roma in eastern Europe.

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well not here to educate cos I'm sure that all you smartypants TTers know at least a bit of history, so just here to add my two cents... IMO the Roma way of life has outlived its usefulness and its relevance. Five hundred years ago a colorful and merry band of traveling musicians, metalworkers, and skilled artisans was at least for a little while a welcome sight to a town. But even back then, when they actually WORKED for a living, the towns quickly learned that it was the job of the children to divert attention and steal, and that fortune tellers tricked stupid people out of their money.

 

Basically, you'd be hard-pressed to find a band of Roma these days who make a completely honest living. Some of the men continue to make music, but they are still part of a group that depends on begging and stealing for its daily sustenance. Roma are scavengers when not thieves and this is why no one wants them in their communities.

 

I don't think that we need to ship them off to "Romarael" (although I did giggle at that) because I don't give enough of a shit about what they're doing one way or another. I don't support discriminating against them when applying for jobs, housing or school <--supposing they even DID any of that :huh: But I don't want to be glared at like a filthy criminal when I tell a nine-year-old girl NO when she begs for money. It's not my job to keep her parents in cigarettes and potato chips. As a hard-core liberal I believe it is the job of the government to support them. Of course to qualify for government assistance you have to actually LIVE in a country.

 

If the Roma are coming to Germany so they can settle down, send their kids to school and learn trades that are useful in the 21st century then by all means let's support it, because I'm tired of women shoving babies in my face while I'm riding on the train, or pathetic old women making me feel guilty for enjoying my barbecue and not wanting to give them any money. I'm poor too dammit. But to even scrape up enough money for these mean couple of wurst I had to go to work. Go. away.

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If the Roma are coming to Germany so they can settle down, send their kids to school and learn trades that are useful in the 21st century then by all means let's support it, because I'm tired of women shoving babies in my face while I'm riding on the train, or pathetic old women making me feel guilty for enjoying my barbecue and not wanting to give them any money. I'm poor too dammit. But to even scrape up enough money for these mean couple of wurst I had to go to work. Go. away.

my thoughts exactly!! although the problem is that they are not accepted anywhere, so why should they be allowed to stay here.. The Germans need to return them back to Romania to set an example to all the groups that claim they are 'persecuted' that Germany is not a free sanctuary to come to.. (as well as every other country in Western Europe) (we do this to the Haitians and Cubans in America.. Coast guard picks them up and promptly returns them even if they scream their 'persecuted' in their own countries..) as well, as the Spanish do the same thing to the North Africans because if you let them in, all they will do is call home and tell all their 10 million cousins to do the same thing! they (the authorities) have learned their lessons well..

 

Now if they want to stay here legally, and go through the proper paperwork to support themselves and contribute to life here in Berlin, then im all for that! but another large band of 'do u speek Engliishh' ladies are definitly not needed and not wanted in this area!

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Roma are moving west becasue they can, and life is better for them (in their eyes) here away from the ghetto slums of eastern Europe.

 

That is the direct result of socio-economic-political changes over the last 20 years a lot of you obstensibly supported.

ie the collapse of Stalinism and the introduction of market capitalism in the eastern states and European integration.

 

Give it a smug "ra-ra-ra" at the collapse of the Berlin Wall, bitte schön, but be prepared to deal with the consequences too.

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If the Roma are coming to Germany so they can settle down, send their kids to school and learn trades that are useful in the 21st century then by all means let's support it,

Hi

 

Sorry Dessa , but I realy am not agree with what you said .

I think that these people ( rromes ) have nothing in common with work or school . Before anyone ask me how in the world would I know this , I would like to say that I am from Romania . I am not a gipsy - also in many opinion just being from Romania makes me a discusting , thief , dirty gypsy .

Personally I avoided the rromes ( or any other " brand " of gipsy ) as far as I could ( at home and also in other parts of the world where I met them ) .

There's nothing to be sorry for them . They did same s***it in France some time ago ( when France government gave them 200 euros per each to come back in Romania , they jumped into the plane , but guess what they did just copple days after they arrived in Romania - right : went back in France to get another 200 :D )

These were the ones that were less rich than many of their " relatives ".

But I give you my word that you did not met too many people richer than romanian rromes ( gipsyes - whatever you want to call them ) I mean ...I live just copple km far from one of the most famous village of gipsyes in Romania - Buzescu ( situated in Teleorman county ) and I saw there many times I passed by ( as I was travelling quite often into another town ) helicopters and limos at their weddings ...cars that costs not less than 30 - 40 .000 euros minmum ( nd they are changing their cars quite often ) ...

Wat they do to have so much money and gold ties at their neck? Simple : steal . " Bussiness " with metals ( from inox up ) .I don't have to detail how they do it ...anyway ...they never ever thought of trying to get a job . Never!!! Same thing with the poor ones - is just in their nature not even to THINK of getting a job .

Really now ...I saw and I know enough about them for not wanting ever to involve myself in helping them one way or another .

Thy will do here what they do in Romania or other parts of the world , also - steal , beg , rape and sometimes even kill.

 

Here's a link ...it worth looking at it and at the pics , just to have a rough ideea what I was " bubbling " here .

http://www.iokira.com/ - go to " Tinseltown "

 

Excuse me for whatever mistakes I may have done in this post ( gramatically , literary or any other ... - I still try to learn some more english ...oh , and german too ...)

 

Happy Birthday for all the kids and a great day to all of you! :)

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The Germans need to return them back to Romania to set an example to all the groups that claim they are 'persecuted' that Germany is not a free sanctuary to come to..

HELLO!

You have heard of the oncept of the EU?

 

Do the police round up begging African-Americans in New York and forcibly return them to say Alabama?

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Monks Town , believe me - you would never ever want to have these kind of people around you , no matter of the circumstances this might happen .

And another thing - take a look at what is happening in Italy with romanian gipsyes .( I still wonder how come the italians didn't managed to sort out this situation ). You don't want to hear / watch romanian news regarding this subject .

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Do the police round up begging African-Americans in New York and forcibly return them to say Alabama?

Monkstown that is a totally different situation.. as they are still American Citizens..(and if you want to play the stupid ignorant game) why dont we round out all the people from Ost Preussen and Pommern and return them deep to the east?? see it can be used in any context for any people... sooo that example would be considered totally out in left field!!..

 

Please see the above post.. They have had a huge problem with this particular set of people all over Europe, we even have them in the US although they are not as widely seen in the media..

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what is happening in Italy is no less that state-sanctioned racism against the Roma and Sinti. 54 years since the end of the war and still few in Europe seem to have moved much further on from the Nazi position on Roma and Sinti.

 

So what if they are involved in organised crime? So what if they are 'different', 'uneducated', 'smelly' etc? That is not the point (though actually most studies have shown consistently that the majority of Roma/Sinti are not involved in criminal activities). The point is that they have as much claim to be Europeans and be treated equally under the law as you or I.

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AnkhSuNamun, I'm not that surprised about your opinion of Roma. Granted, you know the situation in Romania (or parts of it) from a first-hand experience. But ask an ethnic Turk what he thinks about Kurds – you will get an outside view and a lot of denial.

 

The comparison with Haitians and Cubans by Blue78 doesn't apply since they are 'merely' refugees because of poverty, not members of a minority.

 

Not only does the material situation of Roma need to improve, but more importantly the respect for minority rights. If their rights were guaranteed and promoted, e.g. parallel education in Romanes and the official language of the country, it would be easier to make the importance of education understood by Roma parents. In the documentary about Bulgaria, the Roma NGO talked about building a preschool in the ghetto with a library to prepare the children for regular non-Roma schools – so not even such basic things exist. Sure, a country like Bulgaria struggles with general poverty, not only amongst Roma, but nonetheless the concept of minority rights needs to take roots and be put into practice.

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Exactly, a one bollocked Austrian already had a "solution" for the "gypsy problem".

 

The Roma moving west are EU citizens and this trend was to be seen.

If you see a problem either deal with it and make suggestions how that could be achieved (clue: EDUCATION) or admit you'd like to turn the clock back 20 years...

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what is happening in Italy is no less that state-sanctioned racism against the Roma and Sinti. 54 years since the end of the war and still few in Europe seem to have moved much further on from the Nazi position on Roma and Sinti.

 

So what if they are involved in organised crime? So what if they are 'different', 'uneducated', 'smelly' etc? That is not the point (though actually most studies have shown consistently that the majority of Roma/Sinti are not involved in criminal activities). The point is that they have as much claim to be Europeans and be treated equally under the law as you or I.

Bell...they have the right to be europeans ...I agree with this one ...but ...excuse me ...I would NEVER treat nice a little bugger that stayes right over the corner at my daughter's school to steal her sandwich , pocket money , phone ( only my daughter doesn't have a phone with her exactly because of this ) , or the thieves or so on ...How can someone evrtreat nice such persons??!!

 

Be treated like you or me ...well...I am pretty sure that none of us has issues with law ..so I find it quite natralthat we should be treated nice ...but ...there again ..please remember where I come from and one more thing - I have n reason in the world to lie nor to be a racist - one thing me and them have in common : we are in a foreign country . But you know what? In March when I came here with just 1 week money to survive and a promision of a job ( which I wouldn't possibly know how long it will last ) I did not went in any church or God knows what other public place to claim mercyfor my financial situation nor I did put my girl to beg. ...There are possibilities for the ones that wants to see them , you know?!

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I'm not talking about being 'nice'. I am talking about being fair. Berlusconi's nasty little piece of ethnic cleansing was in no way fair. Sure if someone breaks the law or misbehaves at school, they should be punished. And if one group shows more problem than another it is the responsibility of society to find out why and seek to change it NOT to pronounce them unreformable and advocate a 'final solution'

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we are in a foreign country.

The Roma are in one sense most certainly not "in a foreign country".

They are taking advantage (as was to be expected) of the way Euope is developing.

 

The social behaviour of some Roma was / is no more acceptable to many people in (say) Romania than it is in Germany.

And the underlying social issues are the same

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what is happening in Italy is no less that state-sanctioned racism against the Roma and Sinti. 54 years since the end of the war and still few in Europe seem to have moved much further on from the Nazi position on Roma and Sinti.

 

So what if they are involved in organised crime? So what if they are 'different', 'uneducated', 'smelly' etc? That is not the point (though actually most studies have shown consistently that the majority of Roma/Sinti are not involved in criminal activities). The point is that they have as much claim to be Europeans and be treated equally under the law as you or I.

Wrong as usual , The Roma are originally not European in origin. They are originally of Asian origin - India actually - but they fled there because - guess what - they felt persecuted there.

 

the dude from Romania is dead right - a bunch of middle-class liberals here telling people with first hand experience of the human rights abuses that these people visit on anyone who crosses their path.

 

hilarious that Bell condemns the church but wants to give these folks another chance despite the bazillion chances they have been given in every country they've blighted.

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If their rights were guaranteed and promoted, e.g. parallel education in Romanes and the official language of the country

Their rights are respected and granted in Romania , unfortunatelly this didn't helped us ...the government offered some time ago 540.000 euros for 24 rromes whose houses were destroyed ( flooded or I don't remember xactly ) ..well...guess what - they never built their houses .And excuse me ..but 540.000 euros for 24 rromes? :blink: ( when there are thousands of retired people that gets less than 100 euros per month after a life's work )

And regarding school - there are some ( not many , indeed ) schools that teach in their own language ...with rromes teachers , also they only speak their language all the time .

Anyway ...I do understand some of your opinions and willingness of help them ( in the supposition that they came here with peaceful, normal thoughts ) , but I really give you my word - these people will never try to go to school or work here . ( Personally I hope that this situation will come to an end soon - see how they went in Finland to begg , Norway , Iceland and so on )

 

Have a good day all of you !:)

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The Roma are in one sense most certainly not "in a foreign country".

They are taking advantage (as was to be expected) of the way Euope is developing.

 

The social behaviour of some Roma was / is no more acceptable to many people in (say) Romania than it is in Germany.

And the underlying social issues are the same

excuses you mean since those same excuses can/could be applied to people relocating from any poorer nation to any richer nation.

 

post-449-1243854245_thumb.jpg

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