Roma refugees from Romania

631 posts in this topic

I don't know how many remember that a few month ago I have asked how to help the annoying "You Speak Eeeenglish?" children. Children shouldn't be beggars in my book...

 

Several interesting things have happened in the past couple of weeks.

 

Several dozens of Roma have come from Romania, as tourists (as members of the EU, there is no limitation on travelling as tourists). They have settled in Goerlitzer Park, and when evacuated from there, they took over a planned Kita in the Bethanien complex. From there, the (German) Bathanien squatters have sent them off to a church in Kreuzberg, where they have squatted. Touriststs, right? Well, they claim that the have been discriminated and persecuted in Romania; their houses burnt down, they are afraid to get back home. They want to stay in Germany.

 

Yesterday most have received the government's offer of moving to a refugee centre in Spandau. Hopefully, someone there will help the children from the first paragraph.

 

So, we're in the ridiculous situation of having refugees from an EU country. And the Romanian Embassy? Mum's the word...

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Roma and Sinti do face discrimination in many more eastern EU countries.

 

If you find Roma and Sinti a problem in Germany, what's your Solution? (sic)

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Roma and Sinti do face discrimination in many more eastern EU countries.

Bit laughable when you consider the abuse and discrimination they subject any neighbouring community to.

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The social norms of some Roma are indeed in conflict with mainstream society.

That could be applied to many groups, subcultutres etc.

 

English speakers who threaten an orderly society by cutting their grass on a Sunday for example! :o

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That's a very polite way to say that they loot and steal from locals in large numbers and have very little regard for the physical integrity of non Roma.

 

If you live in a country you must respect the laws of that country , the Roma patently do not nor will ever.

 

My wife grew up next to a Romany community and the suffering and damage they have inflicted never seems to get the same coverage that this "racism" like stuff does.

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So, we're in the ridiculous situation of having refugees from an EU country.

If you could be more open-minded about this, you may could realize fundamentally there's very little difference between an refugee and an expatriate. I don't get why you're so obsessed about this, perhaps if this bothers you that much perhaps Berlin is not the place for YOU to live.

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That's a very polite way to say that they loot and steal from locals in large numbers

Like Zumwinkel stole large numbers?

So all Germans are thieves right?

 

Yes, the anti social behaviour of a number of Roma is an issue.

But that can't be blamed on all Roma and to an extent one needs to understand WHY it happens.

 

 

If you live in a country you must respect the laws of that country , the Roma patently do not nor will ever.

Part of the reason is that many Roma are totallly excluded from various societies.

Would you respect all the laws and norms of a society you felt alienated from?

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I think that Donno does point out a paradox. Most of the countries of origin of the Roma refugees are EU members (e.g. Slovakian Republik since 2004), but the partly unexceptable living conditions, social repression haven't changed much. It really shows the limits of power of the EU. Recently I saw a documentary about Roma in East Slovakia. There are entire Roma villages, and they live in appalling, third-world slum conditions (only the landscape was beautiful). The EU gave money to build new houses, but the money didn't reach those in need. A scene at the end of the film was very telling. A well-dressed young Roma woman who had absolved a shop-assistant training wanted to get a job in a non-Roma town. She went to several shops that had signs in the window "Shop assistant needed". Even in the presence of the camera team, in all of the shops the job was suddenly gone etc., so it was well clear they didn't even want to consider her application.

 

There is an interesting book about Roma in the Košice region, Die Hundeesser von Svinia about the poorest of the poor, a Roma group that purportedly eats dogs and is therefore looked down upon by other Roma.

 

A week ago, there was another film on Arte, La cité des Roms, about a Roma ghetto in the city of Sliven, Bulgaria, with a wall around it and named "Nadejda" (Hope). Extreme poverty, the children roam the refuse dump. There is a Roma initiative that tries to integrate some Roma children into non-Roma schools outside of the ghetto. Those children of course have a hard time in the new schools. Being properly represented by politicians is hampered by corrupt structures and vote-buying.

 

It's not like Roma can live without discrimination in Germany (many refugees from the Balkan war period live her only on a tolerated residence status) and their traditional way of life doesn't work here, but I understand that they want to draw attention to the situation in their countries of origin and want to escape from it.

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Like Zumwinkel stole large numbers?

So all Germans are thieves right?

 

Yes, the anti social behaviour of a number of Roma is an issue.

But that can't be blamed on all Roma and to an extent one needs to understand WHY it happens.

Oh good , we're going to have a debate today:

Of course one swallow doesn't a summer make but there has yet to be an example of a single country where the Roma have been successfully integrated. Over hundreds of years.

 

 

Part of the reason is that many Roma are totallly excluded from various societies.

Would you respect all the laws and norms of a society you felt alienated from?

You mean like Asians did in Britain and America when the first arrived? Or Jews or Irish... Uh wait ... they worked hard and put themselves ahead in society

 

When I lived in Boston I was always told of the shop signs "No Irish or dogs" which surprised me as I always thought Boston was kind to the Irish - not so back in the day.

 

My wife's aunt runs an orphanage for kids in the Czech republic - she's a kind ol thing but same as the gypsies in Ireland these people simply do not wish to integrate , they are there to take and to laugh at your softness.

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I know the Kosice region a fair bit and yes, in some cases Roma there live in VERY poor conditions.

Either in ghettos on the edges of towns or in run down social housing tenements.

 

Part of the reason that Slovakia met all the criteria to join the Euro were cuts in social expenditure, like 50% cuts in unemployment benefits. at a time when the cost of living was significantly rising.

When you think that in Slovakia IIRC 80-90% of Roma are unemployed, the fact that that led to food riots in eastern Slovakia should not be a surprise.

 

The problem isn't going away fast either as Roma children stil find themselves pushed into "special" schools and thus excluded from society.

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Speaking of Jews, perhaps we could do for the Roma people what was done for them. I propose we cut another slab out of Palestine, shore it up with some kick ass weaponry and throw them all in there. Perhaps it could be called Romarael? It'll get them outta Görlitzer Park, and that's my main incentive. Just the other day I was grilling there and some filthy Roma child came up and asked for my grilled chicken skewers. Nearly ruined 5 minutes of my day.

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I think before going too far into the debate it would be wise to find out why they were "persecuted" where it was they were living before. if it turns out that it was religion/race then fine, but if it was because they behaved like a pack of unbridled assholes, then maybe send them back, with a sandwich. gotta eat.

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Roma and Sinti do face discrimination in many more eastern EU countries.

 

The social norms of some Roma are indeed in conflict with mainstream society.

This is pretty much irrelevant though. If the Roma in question are looking for asylum then they are doing so with the express wish to integrate in the host countrys norms. I look forward to them generating taxation and contributing to society more broadly as part of their integration proceess. :ph34r:

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You mean like Asians did in Britain and America when the first arrived? Or Jews or Irish... Uh wait ... they worked hard and put themselves ahead in society

You are, I take it, referring to the "Brotherhood" here, aren't you?

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If you could be more open-minded about this, you may could realize fundamentally there's very little difference between an refugee and an expatriate. I don't get why you're so obsessed about this, perhaps if this bothers you that much perhaps Berlin is not the place for YOU to live.

Well, maybe it isn't. This thread is not on whether or not Berlin is suitable for me. The EU is not supposed only to be built on economic cooperation, it has some pretensions of caring for human rights - and yet, it has accepted a country with well known human rights problems, one (or more) of its member countries is horribly violating the human rights of its citizens, and suddenly the EU is quite quiet. Don't you think the Romanian government and the EU has some responsibility of human rights?

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If a bunch of people came from somewhere and started squatting on my property I'd wonder who's human rights exactly have been infringed upon...

 

I can assure any others reading this that should a clan of Roma move in next door then you'd quickly have the very same feeling.

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You are right Donno to recognise the inherent contradiction in the EU and its eastern extension.

What is more important for capital? Caputuring an extended market and supply of (cheap) labour and product / materials or human rights / social standards in those new member states?

 

Whatever delays on the right of free migration and / or the distances / costs involved, it was invevitable that the Roma "problem" was going to grow in western Europe rather than it kept on being hidden away in places many people never knew existed behind in the Carpathan mountains.

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MT is right , it is only going to grow until some very tough love is handed down.

 

Denmark is about the most liberal left-friendly country you could imagine - yet if you go up to the week-long Roskilde festival you will see in plain daylight groups of Roma rifling through people's tents.

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