Dog owners' guide to Heidelberg

[anichka 2]

I was wondering if anyone has advice about various things related to dogs in Heidelberg, including training classes, English-speaking vets, agility clubs, places a dog can run off leash, etc. Are there any dog parks there? I am especially concerned about this one as my dog needs a good run every day, and we'll most likely be living in a flat without a nice large yard and a house surrounded by farmland like I have in the UK. Thanks!

[Guest]

I would recommend you Google "Dog training Heidelberg" i just did it and got a load of hits. English speaking vets you will always find in big cities, especially Heidelberg, Stuttgart etc because of the U.S army personnel in these areas.

[anichka 2]

Thanks. In regards to dog training, I would really prefer personal recommendations over the shotgun approach. I could be more specific and say clicker training, too. I've put my dog through three different training courses (three trainers, two of them using the clicker) in the UK. I would strongly recommend against one of the trainers. Often the training isn't cheap, so anyone who could give first-hand advice would be appreciated.

[bohemka 4,338]

Little Anna? Check out the pub quiz thread, in Heidelberg and Mannheim. There are regular meetups, and I'm sure a few are dog owners. Good luck.

[Bipa 5,814]

Sorry I can't give you any personal recommendations for Heidelberg, but I can give you a few tips.

 

Joining a dog club (hundeverein) is usually a LOT cheaper than going for classes at a training school. If you want to get really active with your dog, then a good dog club will also provide for various other activities that you might be interested in trying. We do country walks, city walks, arrange for play dates at the dog club, have various training available from basic obedience to agility and dog dancing, and also BBQs in the summer and social events for owners. There are NO dog parks around where I live (near Schwäbisch Hall), so when there's nothing scheduled then we can use the fenced in training ground at the club for whatever we wish, be it play dates with other dogs, extra training, or just letting our dogs run around and let off steam in a safe, enclosed area that isn't open to the public.

 

What makes a good club? The trainers and members should be warm and welcoming. Their idea and methodology of how to train dogs should be similar to yours. Other things to look out for is a nice, large, fully fenced in area of at least a few thousand square meters and equipment like ramps, bridges, tunnels, stairs etc. Most will also have a clubhouse where you can have a beer or coffee afterwards. They should have no problems in letting you snoop around and try out some classes for free. Many will also have a trial membership available for a very low fee before you commit to becoming a full member. You should be able to observe any class and see for yourself how the dogs are trained, and how the trainers relate to the owners.

 

You say you're interested in doing some agility with your dog. You'll have to get your dog to take and pass the basic obedience test (Begleithundprüfung), and the dog must be at least 18 months old before any reputable club or training school will allow your dog to participate. Since agility involves lots of running around off leash, it makes sense that every dog should show that they can get along with other dogs and people, and has attained a basic level of obedience. At our club, these tests are always a very stressful time since agility dogs are often a bit more hyper and not always the most obedient in the traditional sense. My Jack Russell is still having a great deal of difficulty in maintaining a good, long "stay"

 

A google search for "heidelberg hundeverein" shows quite a few clubs in the area. Start off with the one nearest where you'll be living, check it out, and if you don't like it then move on to the next closest. Not having to travel too far to the club means you're more likely to go regularly which will mean more fun for you and your dog.

 

Ouch... you might have trouble finding a good clicker trainer. I do clicker training with my two, and it was a real shock to find out that many many German trainers are still using 19th century training techniques. I've had trainers tell me to hit my dog when he acts out and refuses to obey, comparing it to spanking a child which everyone does, right? And I've been told quite seriously by another German trainer to alpha roll my dog. Grrrrr... I've also had a trainer try to convince me that clicker training is useless blah blah blah. Lots of poorly informed folks calling themselves dog trainers here in Germany.

 

But there are good, positive trainers out there. You just have to search around a bit, interview them, and take or observe at least one class to see if their philosophy matches yours. I found a newly formed club that got organized kinda in protest against the old-fashioned and out-of-date force and aversion style training techniques. But you will have to take the shotgun approach since it can be very hit-or-miss unless there's someone else out there with personal experience who can recommend a particular club or trainer in the Heidelberg area.

 

Good luck!

[anichka 2]

Thanks Bipa. That's exactly the type of advice I need. I've heard of the clubs you mention, but I haven't been able to parse out enough German yet on their websites. I will definitely look into joining one once I get there.

 

Good to know about the trainers there. I am surprised by that, since I've heard Germany is so dog friendly (supposedly more so than Britain). May just be me, the books, the clicker, and the dog if I can't find something suitable!

 

Is the Begleithundprüfung a state-sponsored test? I am trying to get through the Google hits, but of course they are mostly in German.

[mere 76]

I would argue that an agility dog does not need to be good with other people and dogs. You cannot have outright aggression, but that's it. Being able to ignore and co-exist is fine or even a warning 'back off' as long as that's all it is and doesn't escalate. When you work agility only one dog is working at a time. (yes, there are the instances where you might have 2 in the same space off leash working, but you know the two dogs are fine together and they both have reached a level of training that another dog can be working on the other side of the ring and your dog will work with you and ignore it).

 

I always advocate well-socialized dogs, but a dog doesn't have to like everyone to do agility. Nor does it have to be able to go into novice obedience.

For agility you will need good off-leash skills and some basic 'obedience' (or manners) mainly a decent recall and stay and being able to focus/be gotten under control during stress or high arousal. A dog doesn't need to do a 3minute stay with you out of sight, does not need to do a drop on command. Send outs and other competition obedience skills are useful, but you can teach those while you teach the rest of agility and work on your handling.

 

Truly for some agility foundation work you should have drive (whether built or natural), focus and impulse control, recall, stay, targetting, sit, down, stand. Of course distance work, send outs, directions, and other things are helpful, but some of it you can work on while you improve your handling and skill level.

[mere 76]

What is in the Begleithundprüfung?

 

Is it more like the Canine Good Citizen evaluation or is it more like competition obedience (I'm assuming it'd only be novice level if it is)?

Is it performed without the use of training aids (harness, training collars, toy/treat reinforcement, etc.)?

[wren 4]

We only have cats but we've been to two english-speaking vets in Heidelberg. Our current vet is Christine Bay in Rohrbach. Her office staff don't generally speak English but she is fluent. We've seen a lot of her lately (unfortunately), and have been pleased with her level of care. She's also easy to get into as she has open office hours most days. These are listed on her website.

 

We also went here when we first moved to town. We had no complaints but only went there for a routine check up and rabies vaccination. We stopped going to this vet because we found them to be a little out of the way. Cats aren't as easy to transport around town as dogs.

 

I'm pretty sure that most of the regulars at the HD pub quiz/ meet-ups aren't dog owners, but you should come anyways.

[Bipa 5,814]

Begleithundprüfung is a very basic obedience test that all dogs must pass before they can start formally training any sport in Germany. No treats or training aids are allowed - just a basic collar or halter may be worn. There are two parts to the test: at the training field, and out in public. But before even starting the real part of the test, the examiner will do the basic "wesenstest" which is what dangerous dogs have to pass in order not to have to wear a muzzle in public. If the dog shows any aggressive traits then it will be disqualified immediately and the rest of the test will be cancelled.

 

The Wesenstest tests the dog's basic personality, characteristics and manners with only limited obedience aspects. The Begleithundprüfung has more classical obedience stuff tested, and there's a test that the handler must first do: Sachkundenachweis für Hundesportprüfungen

 

For folks who can read German, here are the wiki explanations for Wesenstest and Begleithundprüfung.

 

Here are a few video examples of what can happen during a wesenstest. You notice that the dog is completely surrounded by strangers, has an umbrella opened pretty much in its face, is startled with gunshots and other loud noises and is confronted by other stuff that will scare or distress or even anger the dog. Canes, walking sticks, wheelchairs or baby buggies, bicycles and even motorcycles, chain saws or lawn mowers can be used. The idea is mainly to check how aggressive or fearful the dog might become rather than how well he obeys commands or does tricks.

Wesenstest Hunde am Beispiel Retriever

 

 

 

 

Here are a few Begleithundprüfung videos:

 

(part one)

 

(second part of test, out in public)

 

(annoying music but great example of classical German-style obedience)

 

 

 

For what it's worth, I haven't even attempted either test with my dogs. Joey has most of the obedience skills down pat... as long as there are no other strange dogs around or strangers moving abruptly or nordic walkers or... you get the idea <sigh> Bonnie still has the concentration and focus of a gnat which is typical for many young Jack Russells. So I train with agility equipment unofficially and will probably end up with a whole course in my own yard I'm not stressed out about the tests because I have no intention of competing and am not legally obliged to do them. But if I wanted to officially train agility, even just for fun, then I'd first have to pass the tests. They are scheduled several times a year when an examiner comes to the club, and there are special preparation courses for folks planning to do them. Most organised dog sports require these basic tests be passed first. That's just the way it is in Germany.

[mere 76]

interesting.

The questions are from watching Kathrin and Susi's two videos.

In the first one the about turn is a left about turn (handler turns left, dog goes right around and they switch places) and not a normal/traditional about turn.

Is this normal or is it a choice which about turn can be used?

 

Does it all have to be done at heel or just loose leash? The dog in the video is in heel on and off, but the turns aren't in heel and the dog does slip from heel to 'loose leash' and back. Can multiple signals be given (both hand and voice command) or only one, once?

 

In the second part when the dog appears in a down stay while people and dogs pass is the dog in a down stay by it's self or a down stay while also it's leash attached to the tree it's near?

 

the other video (the one you said has annoying music)- nice attention focus, but if they were competing (not sure about in Germany, but in many other countries) they'd have points knocked off a lot since the dog keeps brushing against/leaning on the handler while heeling. Later (when off leash) when he does his sit he isn't straight and swings out to the side then continues later with lagging while heeling. Very nice teamwork though and the moving down and sit were very nice (sad that the recall ended in a front that wasn't straight, but had a nice finish afterward).

 

thanks for sharing the info/links Bipa!

 

As for the first part of your post and discussing the dog's reaction to distractions I wonder how much they throw at a dog. No matter how socialized a dog is going beyond normal threshold numerous times will stress a dog. Also, I'm curious as to how they measure what amount of stress/stress signals are acceptable and others not. There's also (I know you know this Bipa and were only passing on info) a difference between aggression and fear. They are not mutually inclusive (or exclusive for that matter) and not all fear can be judged nor can the effects it'll have on a dog unless a complete history is taken and even then it is not a guarantee.

[Bipa 5,814]

Mere, here's a good, detailed description of the various exercises for the Begleithundeprüfung (in German). Points are given for each exercise, and if a dog doesn't get at least 70% in the training field exercise then the city part of the test is cancelled and the dog didn't pass. If the dog shows any aggression or runs off, it is an immediate fail. There are always at least two other dogs on the field during the test.

 

The 180 degree turns must always be a left turn, but the dog may either go behind the handler or turn around with the handler by staying on the left side. Either is acceptable with no points knocked off.

 

It is all supposed to be done at heel either with a loose leash held in the left hand, or no leash. Points are taken off if the dog is walking too far forward, back, or out to the side. "Sit" is supposed to be nice and straight in line with the hip. Points are also taken off for "angle parking"

 

The command "sit" is never given either verbally or with hand sign. As soon as the handler stops and stands still in one spot, the dog is supposed to simply sit down properly to the left of the handler. The verbal command "Fuß" may only be given when first starting out from a sitting position, or when changing speeds while walking. In between exercises the handler pauses and the dog should always return to a sit without being told. You may only praise your dog (pet, praise but no treats) after an individual exercise has been completed, and there must be a few seconds pause afterwards before beginning the next.

 

During the down stay you mention, the dog was actually tied to the tree. The handler must go out of view of the dog, and the dog must remain in a down. This just isn't working at all with Bonnie.

 

That video with annoying music shows exactly what one trainer was trying to get me to do with Joey. Using a halti, the trainer told me to hold the leash so tight that Joey's face was forced into pressing against me as we walked. I did try it during that one session with Joey and it was extremely uncomfortable for both me and my dog. I never went back to that trainer again after that one free session - he's the one who thinks that 90% of people aren't able to do clicker training properly and tried to talk me out of it. He's into the traditional force/aversion training which I find abhorrent. Curiously enough, he figured that Joey was almost ready to take the test. Funny how he denigrates my training methods yet praises my results. I pointed it out to him but he didn't make the connection and kept insisting I was using bad methodology.

 

The "stress test" (wesenstest) does vary a bit from State to State. Here in B-W it tends to be slightly more moderate. The dog is allowed to bark and growl a bit without getting failed, but it really is a judgement call with some examiners being more strict than others. As an owner you have no choice of examiners since they are State accredited and often vets. As an example, a commonly done exercise in the wesenstest here is to have a jogger run up to the dog and punch the air over the dog's head a few times. If the dog lays back its ears and growls softly but remains in place then it could still pass. The owner is allowed to give verbal and hand signals, so even if a dog begins to react but the owner shows that they can quickly get the dog under control, say within 10 seconds, then it's ok. But part of the testing is done without the owner within eye/earshot of the dog. Remember they aren't testing how well the dog has been trained to obey, but the dog's natural inclinations and personality.

[matajari 239]

I feel obliged to add for the OP, that there are some utter freaks at the dog clubs who do nothing else and become really obnoxious. Just ignore them. They are a minority...

[anichka 2]

Thanks matajari. As the owner of a purebred dog (and now on several mailing lists related to the breed), I think that's pretty safe to say about a lot of dog communities in general. Best in Show wasn't completely off the mark.

[mere 76]

anichka- what kind of dog do you have?

 

Yes, some dog people are quite odd. Oddly enough it seems that certain groups fall into that category more than others. I'm generalizing so this is not completely accurate, but it seems that people who do herding, SAR, frisbee, agility, and some of the other activities/sports seem a more balanced than those that do conformation. Obedience, rally and some of the other activities vary. I guess the 'performance' dog sportspeople appear to be not quite as weird. I know it depends on the person, but if you look at groups of people who do one versus the other there are some similarities e.g. cani-cross or ski-joring compared to freestyle/dancing.

[anichka 2]

I have one 15-month-old male Portuguese Water Dog (quickly becoming AKA "The Obama Dog"... never mind how much debate having a PWD in the White House stirred up the mailing lists I am on!).

 

This is Laszlo:

 

[mere 76]

I have a few PWDs in the classes I teach. I also teach someone who breeds them. She has both curly and wavy.

 

Why would Porty in the Whitehouse be an issue? I would debate the whole hypoallergenic part, but that's it.

[anichka 2]

Really? Shoot, I just saw you're in North America. I have been trying to look for breeders in Germany (not much luck - I think the closest is the Netherlands) because I would like to get another one in a year or two. I had to wait almost exactly a year to get him in the UK. I am in the States at the moment for work and missing my goofy little boy. He's such a fun dog, but a little stubborn. He's taken to training really well. I hope we might be up to the challenge of some of the tests Bipa mentioned, but we'll have to work hard to get there.

 

Just saw your comment about the WH. Most of the debate has to do with the breed becoming "too popular" or, because they are very energetic dogs, the First family not realizing what they are getting into (which I think is hogwash - they are going to have plenty of resources to help them with the dog).

[mere 76]

Well, if you're in the Milwaukee, WI or Chicago, IL area let me know. I can introduce her to you. She does conformation, obedience, some rally, and agility with her dogs.

 

I don't know any PWD breeders in Germany, but I can ask the person I know since she might know of some and I know breeders of other breeds who might know some. Let me know if/when you're looking.

[anichka 2]

At the moment I am in Virginia. I was hoping to head home (actually, Illinois, but downstate in C-U) to see the folks when I was done here, but it's not going to work out (mostly because of the potential pending move to Germany soon). I'll be back in the Midwest sometime this year though, and I'd love to meet any Porties (and their people) along the way.

 

It will be at least another year before I am looking. I've yet to figure out what my housing situation will be when/if this happens.