Change of resident status after getting married

[ShaggyMame 363]

My german fiance and I decided to simplify things and get married in Denmark next month, but are still planning to travel to my home country soon afterwards to throw a wedding party and go on our honeymoon. I am a non-EU citizen who came to Germany on a language visa which allows me to stay for 2 more months. Does anybody know how long I will have to wait before I get my new residence permit after submitting a marriage certificate to the german authorities? I just want to make sure I don't have any trouble coming back. I'm definitely not counting on a smooth re-entry even if my current residence permit hasn't expired by then. I would rather wait until we settle everything before leaving the country. I definitely don't want to have to apply for a spousal reunion visa back home (which I believe can take a couple of months), and am aware it would be stupid to come back as a tourist because that kind of visa cannot be changed into a residence permit.

[razorsandroses 431]

Well, your situation does vary a bit. I didn't marry out of the country.

 

However, when I submitted my marriage certificate, I was given the permit within the same week. It might be the same with you, but I am not certain.

[SJ1 2,053]

I married in the country and it took over 2 months for me. The alien office told me it varies per state. Each has individual policies and ways of doing things.

 

But one thing you should watch out for. While there are a lot of people who get it instant. In my case I was given a temporary permit while my app was pending allowing me to stay, and I was not allowed to leave Germany. Had I left my residency app would have been tossed and I would have been denied reentry and had to do the process over.

[ShaggyMame 363]

Thank you so much for your replies. I knew it would probably vary from state to state, and from case to case, but I was hoping that they would at least be in the same ballpark. Impossible to plan our trip if it can take anywhere from a few days to a few months. Boo.

 

Or do you think I should just call the local office and ask? I guess I haven't done it because I'm a bit paranoid it might be the kind of question that, no matter how straight forward, inexplicably gives someone an opportunity to take out the red tape and preemptively stick it all over on my file. I've been burned before. Last time by a positively kafkaesque bureaucrat at the german consulate in the States when my visa had been pre-approved by the Auslanderbehorde here in Germany.

[Niccijae17 6]

So if you come here on a tourist visa you can't change it to a marriage visa or whatever it's called?

[SJ1 2,053]

Yes, you can switch to residency once married.

[ShaggyMame 363]

 

So if you come here on a tourist visa you can't change it to a marriage visa or whatever it's called?

 

 

 

Yes, you can switch to residency once married.

 

Actually, if Niccijae17 is asking if one can get married on a tourist visa and change one's status to resident, the answer is definitely no.

 

Let's suppose you manage to get married in Europe as a tourist (not easy), and apply for a residence permit based on that marriage. It's been mentioned in the forums before: although the bureaucrats have to acknowledge your marriage, you broke their rules. Therefore they will reject your residency request and send you back to your home base to apply for a family reunion visa, which can take many months. This kind of red-taping is to discourage those who intend to marry for mere convenience.

 

Niccijae17: Can you be more specific about your particular case? Are you here on a tourist visa? Because if you came on a language study visa, you are allowed to get married and will get your residency permit without having to leave Germany.

[Krieg 15,105]

The real answer is it depends on where you are from. For some countries it is accepted to change the visa straight away once in Germany for other countries (normally third world countries) you have to go back home and apply for the new visa from there.

[ShaggyMame 363]

Hmmm... I recently met an Canadian woman who confirmed what I've learned from my own experience: she married four years ago while on a tourist visa and had to go back to the US to apply for her reunion one. But hey, maybe the real answer is that it depends on the local bureaucrat? Paperwork requirements and times vary wildly from town to town for the exact application.

 

I'm curious now: has anyone around here actually arrived here as a tourist, gotten married and gotten residence right away without any complications?

[dessa_dangerous 13,315]

wondering why a Canadian woman would need to go back to the US to process papers...

 

Krieg is right. It depends on where you and your spouse are from, possibly where you get married, and where you currently live.

 

People from the U.S. are allowed to come to Germany with no visa whatsoever (a tourist visa is implied) and stay for 90 days. Should you wish to change your status during that time, you are allowed, perfectly legally. As a matter of fact I came, stayed for 90 days, then left for a couple days, then came back again and applied for a freelancer visa and got it the same day.

 

On the other hand I have an Australian friend who married a British man in England, dunno why exactly she had to go back to Australia to apply for the new visa. I think it could be that Australia just has a different "deal" with Germany than the US does.

 

I just got married here in Germany to a German man and am going to the Ausländerbehörde tomorrow to apply for my new visa (on a renewed freelancer visa at the moment, expires in May 2010). Will report back here my experiences.

[jazs 0]

Actually I did.. Came here for about 90 days on a tourist visa cos then fiance needed to return to DE for work during which we got married but had the documents sent earlier from SG for the marriage license application. Went to the alien office after marriage to check the application process then officer asked if I want to get my residency visa done which we thought I was not allowed. Officer said that I am allowed to do it since I am a Singaporean but I didn't do it. I need to return to Singapore to serve my notice period with my then employer but 2 months later, I was back. From what I know, I am not allowed to be back in DE or EU within 180 after I used up my 90 days.

 

The next day after I arrived, I went to the buergerbuero to register, 3 days later to the alien office. Got the residency visa for 3 years on the same day. I am thinking, since you skipped the red tapes here and get married in Danmark instead, they WILL make your life very miserable. They already got the benefit of making my life miserable when we submitted the documents for the marriage license.

 

Since I only dealt with the office here in Wiesbaden which might most likely be different from yours, I can't tell you for sure.. Ohh, I hope you have already gotten the A1 certificate. They make your life miserable too w/o it from what I heard from some others. Thank god I got that before I moved here but the truth is, they don't really care. Even if you have the certificate, they dump you into the integration course and assume you don't speak enough German. That is fine by me since I needed to advance my German language but I repeated the lessons I have already covered in the A1 test. They have no problem with that so at the end of the day, I was wondering why the hell do I need the A1 certification...

[SJ1 2,053]

I came to Germany with my 90 days "no visa needed", and then changed to residency with spouse.

 

I did not have to leave. Americans are allowed to switch or even apply for a visa from within Germany.

 

So as said it varies very much on your country of origin, but the person who said definite no is wrong.

[ShaggyMame 363]

 

wondering why a Canadian woman would need to go back to the US to process papers...

 

I apologize for not clarifying. She was living in the US at the time.

 

 

People from the U.S. are allowed to come to Germany with no visa whatsoever (a tourist visa is implied) and stay for 90 days. Should you wish to change your status during that time, you are allowed, perfectly legally.

 

The "no visa whatsoever" thing in itself doesn't make a difference. Mexicans, for example, are also allowed to come to Europe without having to apply for a tourist visa and also stay for a maximum of 90 days. It doesn't matter that Mexico is not included in the so-called "Black List"*, we was told repeatedly that there is absolutely no way to change a tourist visa to the kind of resident permit one gets once married (to a German citizen in my case). I am aware that, for example, US citizens can go from tourist to freelancer (something that not all "White List" citizens can), so that's why I was asking if there's anybody who's done the direct move from tourist to residence specifically via marriage, because the Canadian woman I mentioned couldn't do it either. But hey, maybe her experience was a freak situation. If so, I will humbly stand corrected, and will be more careful next time I reply.

 

But so far, it still looks to me like it mostly comes down to the town/bureaucrat one has to deal with.

[SJ1 2,053]

Yes I did tourist to residency with spouse no problem.

 

You need to talk to the auslanderbehorde for your exact situation :)

[El Jeffo 42,135]

 

But so far, it still looks to me like it mostly comes down to the town/bureaucrat one has to deal with.

 

You're free to your interpretation, but it looks to me like it comes down to your specific country of origin and - particularly - whether they're a former occupying power.

 

As a famous bloke once said, some animals are more equal than others.

[ShaggyMame 363]

 

I came to Germany with my 90 days "no visa needed", and then changed to residency with spouse.

 

I did not have to leave. Americans are allowed to switch or even apply for a visa from within Germany.

 

So as said it varies very much on your country of origin, but the person who said definite no is wrong.

 

I stand corrected then. I apologize for coming to such a conclusion based on what I was told and somebody else's experience. I didn't stop to think for a minute that the Canadian's situation might've been more irregular than she let on.

[ShaggyMame 363]

 

I am thinking, since you skipped the red tapes here and get married in Danmark instead, they WILL make your life very miserable.

Actually, it was all super easy when we got back from Denmark and submitted the papers. There was absolutely no problem. No extra paperwork, no questioning, like other people have recently mentioned in the "Marriage in Denmark" thread. I just had to wait for a couple of weeks to have the sticker on my passport. The problems I encountered happened when we were planning the move and mostly with the Consulate.

 

 

Ohh, I hope you have already gotten the A1 certificate. They make your life miserable too w/o it from what I heard from some others. Thank god I got that before I moved here but the truth is, they don't really care. Even if you have the certificate, they dump you into the integration course and assume you don't speak enough German.

 

I didn't and don't need the A1 certificate because I have a graduate degree. They don't even require me to go into the integration course. I can just take the test when I am ready. Go figure.

 

 

As a famous bloke once said, some animals are more equal than others.

 

True...

[dessa_dangerous 13,315]

OK as promised, here is what happened yesterday at the Ausländerbehörde:

 

Went with husband, checked into room 303 and told them that we wanted to change my visa from a freelance English teaching visa to a spouse visa. The Praktikant (sp?) said OK, let me make you an appointment. Took my passport and walked out of sight. Came back confused, baffled as to why I would want to change my visa when it is valid until May 2010. I didn't bother telling him why (I want to do a different sort of work so I can improve my German, and also because I am dead tired of teaching English), husband said "Yes OK but that visa is limited and we got married and therefore want to change her visa [so she can have the rights and privileges of a spouse <-- not said, but a monkey could figure out why]." Kid took my passport off again to make the appointment. We listened to him wrangling with his kollegin, who was also confused as to what sort of changes we wanted to make, "it says that she's a selbständig English teacher, this visa is still valid, what do they want?" Husband yelled over the divider, "WE GOT MARRIED." Oh. OK. Kid asked us over the divider if 12.30 on November 2 suits us. Well, not really, but if that's the earliest you've got then it'll have to do. Kid spent another 10 minutes preparing a zettel (sp).

 

On November 2, the agent will look over my information and award the visa. There were no restrictions on where I could go or whether I have to stay in the country. Between here and then is nothing but time until I get the piece of paper. I did not have to show proof of insurance. They did not ask for proof of language proficiency or order that I take a test.

 

As we walked away, I told my husband about all the numerous stories I'd heard and read about from people in our situation and we agreed that even when two couples come from the same places, live in the same place, do the same jobs and have the same level of German, no two stories can be guaranteed to be the same. A lot of it hinges on who's working that day in the office which can also be quite frustrating (for some).

 

So far doing my bureaucratic stuff here in Germany has been a piece of piss. Good luck to the rest of you!

[GoodKitty 38]

 

But so far, it still looks to me like it mostly comes down to the town/bureaucrat one has to deal with.

 

 

 

You're free to your interpretation, but it looks to me like it comes down to your specific country of origin and - particularly - whether they're a former occupying power.

 

 

 

I stand corrected then. I apologize for coming to such a conclusion based on what I was told and somebody else's experience. I didn't stop to think for a minute that the Canadian's situation might've been more irregular than she let on.

 

 

 

As we walked away, I told my husband about all the numerous stories I'd heard and read about from people in our situation and we agreed that even when two couples come from the same places, live in the same place, do the same jobs and have the same level of German, no two stories can be guaranteed to be the same. A lot of it hinges on who's working that day in the office which can also be quite frustrating (for some).

 

it looks like shaggy -and dessa- were not that far off from the truth as other people implied in this thread.

there's now a case of an american woman who got married to a german having complications. although the german authorities are not sending her back to America to get another visa, they are making things very difficult by asking for proof that she speaks german before she gets her residence permit.

so, people beware. even if you are privileged citizens from 1st world countries. you might get treated as if you came from a less privileged nation.

[mimaberlin 1]

I have an important question regarding this topic!

I am a German resident from a non-European country with a work visa  (I am not a European citizen). I have recently married my German spouse in Denmark, but the German Foreigners' Office in my town does not change my residence permit and says that marriage in Denmark does not change my residence in Germany. They told us we must start a marriage in Germany again if I want to get married related visa. It does not sound rational to me, especially I cannot speak German and the offer could not speak English very well, So is it correct? Do you have any similar experience?