Laws on clearing snow and liability

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This is about land, a property, not apartments. Landowner is one thing, Besitzer also refers to land, not building. An "Mieter", renter, also refers to the renter of land and not building or apartment.

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Oh. Thanks for the link kato. Makes for interesting reading :)

 

I wonder if we are considered 'Straßenanlieger' in this case? Our apartment block is behind a continuous row of buildings which face the street, with an access tunnel to enter the small Innenhof, tiefgarage and the entrance to our block.

 

The buildings facing the street are shops on the ground floor, with offices and doctors' surgeries on the upper levels, but with some private flats. The Tiefgarage is used by these workers too.

 

Could be that the only part that needs to be cleared is the pedestrian walkway in front of the access tunnel.

 

I need to have a chat with the LL about all this!

 

Cheers,

 

KP

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Hello.

 

We are in the process of buying a house. We are in the Grundbuch with a Vormerkung, but as we have not paid the full purchase price we are not yet owners of the house and ground.

 

We have not moved in yet but there is snow and ice around at the moment. Would I be held responsible for clearing the path already, or only after the final grundbuch eintrag and payment?

 

On a related note, the house is one of 6 with a WEG shared ground. 4 of the houses have street/pavement frontages. I think that if the 4 individuals take responsibility for snow clearing by their house and one forgets or is not able, and an accident happens, then liability would be for all 6 parties. Correct?

 

I don't want to burden ownership with too many rules and costs, but a shared winterdienst is needed I think. Plus also maybe some more items and thus an owners meeting and verwalter might be required. But that's for another topic.

 

B

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I was clearing the snow from outside my place just the other day...

 

The burgermeister walked by and said " Do it properly or dont do it all"...

 

I put the shovel away...

 

Next news we will having stupid laws like if there is a car accident outside your house and the pavement is dirty then you are partly responsible!

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My small town has very specific ordinances about snow clearing: a path one meter wide on the sidewalks (paths, for those of you of the British persuasion). Street drains must also be cleared and a pathway to the street must be kept free. The meter-wide rule is meant for baby prams, wheelchairs, and rollators.

 

Start early, before a lot of snow accumulates. When people have walked on the snow, it turns to ice, and is extremely dangerous. Metal always seems to freeze the quickest: those manhole covers and drains can be extremely slippery--avoid them.

 

Germany is a "social country", so a lot of emphasis is kept on social obligations.

 

Use an ice hack for ice. And that "fresh snowfall" may hide some very dangerous surface ice.

 

It's actually a very dangerous activity. See i.e. My linkhttp://www.wikihow.com/Shovel-Snow

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I lived in a small town in Wisconsin where one morning I awoke to a dusting of snow on the sidewalk. I saw that the snow was going to continue throughout the day, so I went to work. A week later I and the rest of the town got tickets in the mail for not shoveling our walks. We all shoveled our walks that night when we got home, but no matter. At least a hundred people showed up at the courthouse on the date specified on the ticket to protest. We were all let off. No idea what happened to the cop who wrote the idiotic tickets.

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You spent a whole week at work? Couldn't you have nipped back during breaks to clear the snow? ;)

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So.. raising this topic again!

 

My neighbour has just sent me a message complaining that I havent cleared the snow from the path in front of my land... 

Saying that I will get a letter from the gemeinde etc etc...

 

So... What could they do if I go out there with a fucking huge leaf blower and blow the snow off my path?

 

Also... No one in the village goes walking in the winter and only 3 or 4 folks per week walk past in the summer!

 

Is lose fluffy snow less dangerous than a thin layer if frozen snow ( The sort you cant scrape off the path)

 

I fucking hate nosey bastard inferfering neighbours !

 

 

BTW.. He has a huge petrol driven brush and it would take him just 2 minutes to do my path at the same time!

 

 

 

 

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So he spent lots of money on his toy and probably resents you for taking it easy. Can't you pay him or offer another service in return for him also clearing your walkway? 

BTW born and raised in Canada and never heard of such law. Actually in many suburbain neighborhoods there are no sidewalks in the commmunities.

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11 minutes ago, vmelchers said:
11 minutes ago, vmelchers said:

never heard of such law. Actually in many suburbain neighborhoods there are no sidewalks in the commmunities.

So just google "Verkehrssicherungspflicht". It's burdening the owner with making sure passage in front of their property is safe. Regardless of whether there is a sidewalk and not only restricted to clearing snow. It may be passed on to tenants though.

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1 hour ago, vmelchers said:

So he spent lots of money on his toy and probably resents you for taking it easy. Can't you pay him or offer another service in return for him also clearing your walkway? 

BTW born and raised in Canada and never heard of such law. Actually in many suburbain neighborhoods there are no sidewalks in the commmunities.

 

Where I lived in Edmonton, there was a law that you had to shovel your sidewalk within a certain number of hours after snowfall.  It actually became a media case that they wanted to fine an old lady for not shovelling her sidewalk properly.

 

Here in Germany I have heard the same thing, you are responsible for the sidewalk outside your house.

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Spidey,

having seen where you live I empathise with you. That's not much of a pathway and certainly not a busy thorughfare but as others have said "ze law iz ze law" and some interfering sods will moan just because it livens up their miserable day.

As I understand it; if you don't clear the snow and someone falls on the uncleared bit relevant to your property they can play the sueing game against you. If you clear it and they slip on the frozen remnants they can't.

 

I'll never forget where I used to live in a ground floor apartment. They contracted a new housemaster service just for winter snow clearing and I had no end of trouble with them. The house (of 9 apartments) was set back off the road behind another similarly-sized house. My bedroom window looked out on a small private pathway which only ran from the house door to the shed thing where the rubbish bins were stored.

Invariably between midnight and 1 am I'd be awoken by someone scraping the just fallen or falling snow from this pathway.

It always woke me and I saw no sense in it being done at that time as the falling snow would have blocked this little pathway again by 6 or 7 am when peopole just might want to use it.

 

Anyway, one day I threw some clothes on, went outside and challenged them. Their reply was that they had so much to do they had no time available later in the morning when it would be more sensible to do it. I basically told them to get lost and stop waking me. They were so annoyed they even called the Police to complain that I was preventing them from doing the snow clearing.

After hearing what the Police said they left with their tails between their legs; apparently whoever answered their call said they'd probably throw them out at that time of day too.

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2 hours ago, Malt-Teaser said:

After hearing what the Police said they left with their tails between their legs; apparently whoever answered their call said they'd probably throw them out at that time of day too.

 

The police probably told them that only between 7 o'clock in the morning and 8 o'clock in the evening the paths have to be safe for walking. Sundays it's 2 hours later in the morning:

 

Die Schneeräumpflicht gilt an allen Tagen der Woche. Von Montag bis Samstag müssen die Gehwege von sieben Uhr morgens, am Sonntag von acht Uhr morgens bis abends um 20 Uhr gefahrlos zu betreten sein;

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My house is in a small village, also on a path going nowhere but we got "done" last year!

OH argued the illogicality of it all, including putting himself in danger shovelling snow in pitch-dark, icy conditions etc. but it didn't wash! I think he also tried getting them to provide a legal definition of how much snow is snow, but I admit he lost me there. ( He engineer, likes numbers!)

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On 13.1.2017, 18:56:14, SpiderPig said:

Is lose fluffy snow less dangerous than a thin layer if frozen snow ( The sort you cant scrape off the path)

In the first case your insurance will however refuse to pay (you have verletzt your Winterdienstpflicht), in the second case you're covered. However, you have to remove both snow and ice. In some German municipalities it is allowed to use salt, in others it is banned. 

 

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On 11/25/2008, 11:49:14, swimmer said:

Indeed. This is not a problem unique to Germany, although more common here. Many people who have lived on private roads in the UK have had just the same issue.

 

 

 

I cannot imagine someone in the UK slipping on the pavement and then immediately thinking to sue the owner of the house...

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I think that in the U K's claim culture, if you clear away snow from the pavement outside your house, pedestrians may then assume it's safe.

If they then slip and injure themselves, they could then probably have a claim against you.

Best leave the snow where it is and let the pedestrian make their own risk assessment.

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