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De-registered by the authorities during absence

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Hello everyone,

 

to make a long story short I'm in germany on my third year of having an Aufenhaltserlaubnis

for the purpose of studying. I went away for the summer on a holiday (within the EU), about 4 months

with a week or so back in Germany during this period. Upon return to Germany I went to the Bürgeramt to get a statement about

my history of residence here only to find out that I had been abmelden for some reason. I asked her why

and she said that if the German Authorities have any suspicion about where you're registered as living,

they can send you a letter requesting that you verify your address by returning it signed, etc.

Naturally since I was on holiday, I didn't receive it, hence not sending it back. Before I left I also changed my postal address

(not my residence) to a friend's so he could collect all the mail for me. I went home to check the post and of course, there was no paper from the authorities at my flat or at my friend's where my post goes to... So now basically they have said that I have been ambelden and have to prove where I live,

and where i have been the last 4 months, and that's its unlikely that I will be able to re-register... The problem is that I don't really have a proper contract

for where I live, since it is with a friend of mine who lives in Austria and lets me live at his place in Germany for cheap rent while he is away 300 days of the year. That was no problem initially to register, they told me that I didn't need a contract, and that if I say i live there, that's ok, and gave me my registration paper. I'm pretty confused as what to do, and what the consequences are. I travel A LOT, and am still finishing my studies, I'm afraid of not being let back into Germany or something if I go and come back, or lose my aufenhaltserlaubnis because of this. They couldn't offer me any suggestions at the Bürgeramt as to a solution... Anyone have any suggestions or been in a similar situation? ...

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Long story short, you're fucked. If you leave the country for more than 90 days -- even if you remain within the EU -- your Einwohnererlaubnis/Einwohnergenehmigung is revoked. Not only do you get to start all over in meeting the requirements to stay for longer than the 90 days a tourist visa allows, none of your previous time spent here counts toward your seven year residence requirement to get the unlimited one.

 

Even if you have an unlimited Aufenthaltstitel you're still bound by the 90-day rule unless you get an exception letter from the Kreisverwaltungsreferat/Einwohnermeldeamt. They don't tell you about this anywhere and I almost got kicked out after 12 years because I'd been gone and had done an Abmeldung for the 90-days I was going to be out. Luckily I was only out for 88 days, something which took two hours to determine in the airport's BGP office. You have to write a letter explaining why you'll be out of the country, for how long, and explain why they should allow it. If they approve, you pay €10 and then get a piece of paper which you must keep with your passport at all times whenever crossing a German border. They will not issue unlimited terms in this letter; it's generally good for 1-5 years depending on your sob story.

 

woof.

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Hello,

 

I'm just wondering if anyone knows how long you're allowed to be out of Germany

before your visa lapses? I've got a student visa (Aufenthaltstitel) valid until

07/09, and want to have a holiday somewhere else in the EU for 2 months over the summer,

will my visa lapse in that time period? Anyone know the maximum time limit?

Can't find anything online...

 

THANKS!!

 

Maybe... Contact the Place where you got it and ask them, they would know the most current rules on that.. Not TT

Perhaps you might like to try this advice this time instead? :)

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Hm

 

Thanks for that.

I checked many many times before I went on holiday,

that my time limit outside of Germany was 180 days, not 90.

Like I said as well, I came back to Germany for at least a week in the middle.

I really checked everything at the Bürgeramt and Auslanderamt regaring time limits

outside of Germany. They told me that with my residence permit I can easily go away for 2 months, come back for a bit, and then go again, come back, etc, as long as its now over a straight period of 180 days. They didn't say that my registration was revoked because I was outside of Germany

too long, but because I didn't respond to these letters verifying that I was living at my registered address.

I'm in Germany now, and have just spoken with the authorities who told me to come in with a statement from

my landlord that I was actually living at my registered address during my absence. In any case, if I have to re-register, what do I have to do exactly? Just show a new contract for my flat, my school papers (I'm still a student here), proof of financial means, and my health insurance (I was and still am paying health insurance, that didn't stop while I was on holiday), I also still have my bank account, mobile phone plan, etc. Yikes.

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Can you not just register where you are living now?

 

Are you not mixing up two different things - the normal run of the mill An / Abmeldung for everyone living in Germany and your visa?

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> my time limit outside of Germany was 180 days, not 90.

180 days of the previous 365 in toto, max < 90 days consecutively.

 

> Like I said as well, I came back to Germany for at least a week in the middle.

Can you prove it? Were you still angemeldet? If not, you're fucked.

 

> I really checked everything at the Bürgeramt and Auslanderamt regaring time limits

I don't doubt you for a minute. You didn't ask the right questions and they didn't volunteer the information you actually needed. You're fucked.

 

> They didn't say that my registration was revoked because I was outside of Germany too long, but because I didn't respond to these letters verifying that I was living at my registered address.

You might have a chance here if you can show you had a different address AND a copy of the change-of-address form you gave to the Post. You also have an out if you can convince them they should've used registered mail.

 

> I'm in Germany now, and have just spoken with the authorities who told me to come in with a statement from my landlord that I was actually living at my registered address during my absence.

Again, you may be in luck here if they'll accept your landlord's statement. Some Beamter are dicks, some not as much so.

 

> if I have to re-register, what do I have to do exactly?

Re-registering for an Anmeldung? Go to the bureau and fill out the form. No paperwork required. Re-registering for your Aufenthaltserlaubnis? All the shit you had to bring when you first tried to register for a long-term stay: lease, school papers, Immatrikulationskarte, proof of financial means, health insurance and whatever else they ask for. Any contracts you have with German companies for services (like your cell phone, GEZ receipt, etc.) as well bank account information will only help your case.

 

Rotsa ruck.

 

woof.

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Thanks for all that,

 

I'm going tomorrow with all the landlord statements, etc. to the Bürgeramt. If I have to re-register it's not the end of the world, since I've got all that paperwork anyways.

 

As to Kommentarlos:

I'm not entirely sure. My Aufenthaltserlaubnis in my passport is apparently fine, I went to the Auslanderamt this morning

to enquire about swapping my student visa to a working one, as I an near the end of my studies, and there was no problem regarding that. Just come back in 3 months with the school ex-matriculation and a letter from the future employer. It was only at the Bürgeramt when they told me that according to their computers, I am not registered officially anymore at the address where I live. They also didn't say anything about having to leave the country or re-apply to stay here, just that if I'm still living where I say I am, I have to bring a statement from my landlord stating that I am actually living there...

It's nothing to do with my visa or permission to stay here I don't think, it's just that they want me to verify where I live in Germany. I was just surprised to get that statement, as I confirmed so many times that my going away on holiday wouldn't affect my status here in Germany.

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I think you will be fine :) I am sure that you are not the first student they have encountered in these circumstances and they are not asking for anything unreasonable that you don't seem to be able to produce.

 

if you are not, play dumb and go back the next day to speak to someone else.

 

Don't forget to post the outcome though this time. ;)

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Hey,

 

Thanks for the positive response.

I guess it should work out somehow,

I do have a house here, health insurance, school papers, financial backing, a part time job, I pay taxes, I can speak german, etc.

Should be no reason to get rid of me..?!

If worse comes to worse I can always re-register.

I'm just really curious as to why they had some 'suspicion'

Could be because of all the enquiries beforehand about leaving the country

on holidays...?

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I'm just really curious as to why they had some 'suspicion'

Perhaps simply because of your foreign student status?

Or did someone else move in the property whilst you were away?

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Could be,

the situation is that the main guy who has been renting it for ages

lives in Austria although keeps the flat in Frankfurt for visits because its an old fixed contract that is extremely cheap.

Once in a while he kind of invites students to live there because he likes to

have someone to keep watch and make use of it while he's away (plus is a close friend giving me a favor), and the rent is very cheap.

I was sharing it with my ex-girlfriend at the time which was the reason

for going away on holidays in the first place... She has also since moved out

but maybe registered in the period when I was away... Does that affect their

judgments regarding 'suspicious registrations..'? The flat was massive and could

easily accommodate 4 people, so I can't imagine how they base those decisions,

but maybe get suspicious if there are something like 6 foreign students registered

at the same flat in the red light district... hmm

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OUTCOME:

 

The lady at the Bürgeramt was satisfied with a letter from the landlord stating that I actually live there.

She informed me that even if you change your postal address with Deutsche Post, any official post from the city or authorities still goes to the place where you are officially registered, meaning that my Louensteurer Karte was sent to my registered address and not to my postal address and stayed in the mailbox for a month or 2 until the postman 'returned to sender' meaning an automatic de-registration. SO if you go away for a month or two have someone retrieve your post for you in case there is something from the authorities sitting in your mailbox... Or else pay an €8 fine and a 2 hour wait at the office...

But you are not fucked as was suggested, and just to clarify 180 days outside of Germany with an aufenhaltserlaubnis means 180 consecutive days, which she confirmed for the 10th time, although don't let your mail sit in the box or use deutsche post to transfer your mail to another address expecting that anything from the authorities will get forwarded as well, because it won't!

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Thank you for sharing the info. I didn't know these either.

 

glad your problem is solved!

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But you are not fucked as was suggested, and just to clarify 180 days outside of Germany with an aufenhaltserlaubnis means 180 consecutive days, which she confirmed for the 10th time, ...

Thanks for the useful update. :)

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But you are not fucked as was suggested, and just to clarify 180 days outside of Germany with an aufenhaltserlaubnis means 180 consecutive days

Feel free to discuss this with the Bundesgrenzpolizei yourself. I don't make this shit up; I had the experience three years ago. On a scale of "shit" to "fun" it was "this really fucking sucks".

 

woof.

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... I don't make this shit up; I had the experience three years ago.

Were you on a student visa at the time?

 

I dunno, this is only a guess, but perhaps it makes a difference if you are here to study.

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Feel free to discuss this with the Bundesgrenzpolizei

Actually its just BundesPolizei (BPOL)..

 

The thing that gets me is every time I leave Germany for the US the BPOL guys scan my PP into the computer, so they know

I'm leaving the country.. When I return the Same BPOL guys just flip thru the pages and hand it back.. No computer scanning..

So how do they know if/when I actually come back?

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Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I left Germany for more than 90 days and it was perfectly fine. I never encountered a source that said 90 days, and the German law book (AufenthaltG) clearly says 180 consecutive days.

 

I have done it myself (>90 and <180 days with a freelance visa), and I have two official sources including the German law.

 

BadDoggie, you seem to be wrong. Don't be so rude given that you have provided no source of your own and seem to contradict the official statements. 

 

Here are two official sources that clearly state that it's 6 months and not 90 days. 

 

https://www.berlin.de/labo/willkommen-in-berlin/aufenthalt/erloeschen-eines-aufenthaltstitels/artikel.597926.en.php

 

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__51.html

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