Various tax advice for freelancers in Germany

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Thanks. Wow now I’m so confused about what to do. I’m just an online crafter, my profit and loss balances for 2016 and 2017 have been -300 euro and -200 euro for each year. I have about 4 items that i’ve made that haven’t sold and then a lot of yarn, beads, stuff like that 

left. I don’t have a steuerberater to deal with my business, I submit the profit and loss sheet to the Finanzamt and then take that figure and give it to our Tax consultants who use it for our joint tax return.  They won’t and can’t deal with my business income as they are contracted by my husband’s employer to do our taxes. Do you know what I need to do in this situation?

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11 minutes ago, Relo2 said:

Thanks. Wow now I’m so confused about what to do. ... Do you know what I need to do in this situation?

 

Ehm, why do you think did Panda link to that thread? It's all there:

 

You have to send them "a snail mail letter like the following one." (use Pandas text) and "send them an Aufgabebilanz and a calculation of your Aufgabegewinn". 

 

 

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Thanks, yes I understood that, what I don’t understand is how I go about doing an Aufgabebilanz in my situation. I read the Aufgabebilanz website but it’s not very clear to me at all.

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Hi All,

 

in particular to the Essensgutscheine. I have been trying to find an answer to my query/confusion since last 3 days without any success.

 

Link.

 https://www.edenred.de/produkte/ticket-restaurant/steuervorteile.html

 

Quote from the link:

Pflichtanteil.

Amtl. Sachbezugswert

"Muss versteuert werden, entweder pauschal von Arbeitgeber mit 25% oder getragen aus dem Nettolohn des Arbeitnehmers."

 

as I am still mastering in Germen. with my little knowledge what I understand from the above statement, either employer bears full 25% tax (only 3,23 Anteile). or employee pays the 3,23 euro portion from his salary with out any taxes (25% on employer).

 

my question:

As I have employed my spouse for a €450 mini job. So, if I plan to give him above essengutscheine worth 6,33 per day for 15 days of work a month.

 

how do I calculate the brutto summe. with essengutscheine in SV-net and for calculating annual taxes.

 

Scenario 1. (if employer bears cost of 25% Steuer)

Salary =€450

Gutscheine 6,33x15 days = €94,95

gesamtabgaben inkl. 2 % Steuer an Die minijob-Zentrale =€156,60

Plus 25% on 3,23X15 =€12,11 (to Finanz Amt.)

=======

Total  for taxes= €713,66  (€450+€94,95+€156,60+€12,11)

or 

 

Scenario 2. (If employee bears 3,23 Anteile)

Salary = €401,55

Gutscheine 6,33x15 days = €94,95

gesamtabgaben inkl. 2 % Steuer an Die minijob-Zentrale =€139,73

=======

Total for taxes =636,23 (€401,55+94,95+139,73 ) (48,45 employee's share deducted from €450 salary)

or

 

Scenario 3. (If employee bears 3,23 Anteile)

Salary = €450

Gutscheine 6,33x15 days = €94,95

gesamtabgaben inkl. 2 % Steuer an Die minijob-Zentrale =€156,60

=======

Total = €450+€94,95+€156,60+€12,11= €713,66 - 48,45 = 665,21 (48,45 employee's share deducted after 2% Steuer)

 

I understand Scenario 1. is pretty straightforward and simple

 

coming back to the above link once again.

quote

"682 Euro (der Mitarbeiter zahlt den amtlichen Sachbezugswert von 3,23 Euro ohne zusätzliche Lohnnebenkosten. Bei maximal 220 Arbeitstagen)"

 

from understanding

which of the Scenarios are correct 2 or 3 ? and should be taken for calculation of taxes.

 

if I consider Scenario 3. it is no more a miniJob and becomes midi job as the total amount is over €450.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

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Hey, thanks for all the advice. It was really useful!

 

I have written a pretty damn detailed guide on how to fill the Fragebogen zur steuerlichen Erfassung after powering through the whole thing myself. It's a much more detailed resource than what was available before, and it even includes an English translation of the form. I hope it helps you guys!

 

I just registered as a business, and I'm now waiting for my tax number. How long did it take you?

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Morning:)

 

Well done with the guide, thanks for the effort.

 

Mine have taken around a month.

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Hi Panda,

 

Could you please share me the link about filling BOP-form once again? I don't know why but the link doesn't work,,,,
 

On 7/1/2012, 11:01:19, PandaMunich said:

 

Please see here for step-by-step screen shots showing how to do the online submission of the BOP-form.

 

 

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The starting page for getting back VAT from a EU country via the BOP (= Bundeszentralamt Online Portal) is: https://www.bzst.de/DE/Steuern_International/Vorsteuerverguetung/01_Inlaendische_Unternehmer/Elektr_Antragstellung/elektrAntragstellung_node.html

 

FAQ (in German): https://www.bzst.de/DE/Steuern_International/Vorsteuerverguetung/01_Inlaendische_Unternehmer/FAQ/FAQ_node.html

 

*******************************************************************

 

If you already have an Elster certificate, skip the above instructions on the Bundeszentralamt page and just use your Elster certificate to log into the BOP page here: https://www.elster.de/bportal/start

 

21 hours ago, h123o456 said:

Hi Panda,

 

Could you please share me the link about filling BOP-form once again? I don't know why but the link doesn't work,,,,

 

Probably because of the forum update a few year back, many links were broken by it.

However, the screen shots seem to have disappeared in the meantime on the BOP page.

 

So here are some screen shots I just did, after logging in with my Elster certificate here: https://www.elster.de/bportal/start

 

5b659a48a10a7_2018-08-0414_16_23-BOP-Mei

 

5b659a46cedbb_2018-08-0414_16_37-BOP-Ant

 

If I wanted to get some UK VAT back for training courses I had taken from January to July 2018 in the UK:

5b659a44b3267_2018-08-0414_17_21-BOP-USt

 

Your details, i.e. your Steuernummer, and name, address, and so on

5b659a42a353c_2018-08-0414_18_04-BOP-USt

 

 

5b659ca6e46ec_2018-08-0414_27_48-BOP-USt

 

5b659ccb95a5f_2018-08-0414_28_18-BOP-USt

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5b659cf81ad59_2018-08-0414_29_11-BOP-USt

 

5b659cf47436b_2018-08-0414_29_35-BOP-USt

 

and then below the above field you have to fill in the details from that specific UK invoice from which you want the VAT back:

 

5b659d378b67c_2018-08-0414_33_30-Window.

 

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Hi Panda,

thank you so much for sharing me the screen captures!


How about the page 4? I can't understand what exact they want me to answer in these 4 questions. I tried to understand with google translator but it didn't work:( It works with, "nein, ja, ja, ja". But, I really don't know if it's correct.

 

I'm freelance videographer and I want to get VAT refund for what I paid in my business trip (ex, meal with my client, hotel, public transportation, rent car,,,etc) 

Screenshot 2018-08-05 12.12.42.png

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If you ended up writing that UK client reverse charge invoices for your services, the answers should be:

ja

nein

nein

ja

 

By the way, no. 2 and 3 are always "nein", if your situation really was a "ja" there, your situation is so complicated that you would already have a Steuerberater to do this for you.

 

If you didn't write reverse charges invoices based on contracts you acquired through these meetings, e.g. if these meetings were not sucessful, it should be 4 times "nein".

Which is the "ideal" choice, since otherwise they can start saying that those input services (= Eingangsumsätze) you want the VAT back on, are related to output services (= Ausgangsumsätze) whose VAT is UK VAT and therefore you're not entitled to a VAT refund on them as a "German" business, but rather that you should have been submitting UK VAT announcements to HRMC all along and been claiming for that UK VAT in there, which is the "standard" way if you also had income that is subject to UK VAT.

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thank you for the answer, but I got an error in page 4 when I chose 4 times "nein",,,, It returns me this error message, "Es wurden noch keine Angaben zu den Erklärungen des Unternehmers gemacht." Do you know what this means?


In most cases, when I have business trips, these are for shooing projects and I'm paid by German clients. For example, when I went to UK in March for a small music video shooting as director/cameraman/producer. I was paid by a music label company based in Germany. During my stay, I paid all production fee (rental studio, rental equipments, my hotel, taxi, and catering service for all staff) by myself, and later added the amount on my invoice with 19% German VAT. 

I thought this is also a case for 4 times "nein". Is that wrong?
 

Screenshot 2018-08-06 16.24.20.png

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That's a case for 4 times "nein".

 

That error message sounds more like you didn't fill in some details somewhere else regarding your declarations.

Click on the blue "Erklärung 1" and see where that link takes you.

 

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Hi Panda,

sorry to add another question, but I want to know also about VAT refund with invoice provided by Amazon.de FBA (Fulfillment By Amazon) seller. I found that there are different type of invoices when I buy things in Amazon.de.
 

1, with German VAT-ID and 19% VAT

2, with UK VAT-ID and 19% VAT

3, with UK VAT-ID and 20% VAT

4, without (or obviously wrong) VAT-ID and 19% VAT

5, without VAT-ID and 0% VAT

 

As far as I know, I can't get VAT refund with  invoice #4 and #5, because the invoice doesn't have proper VAT number. I guess these sellers are non-VAT registered or tax evaders.

 

How about #2 and #3? Can I get refund through BOP-form as UK VAT?

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Everything with 19% VAT (no. 1 and 2) is German VAT and has to be claimed in your normal Unsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung.

 

No. 3 is a case for the BOP form.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

Click on the blue "Erklärung 1" and see where that link takes you.

 


It takes me to the 1st column, I mean, "keine Lieferungen und sonstigen Leistungen ausgeführt hat, welche im Mitgliedstaat der Erstattung als bewirkt gelten (Artikel 3 Buchstabe b der Richtlinie 2008/9/EG)"

 

Although I don't understand the exact meaning of these questions, I tried several patterns.

1, "nein, nein, nein, nein,"
error = "Es wurden noch keine Angaben zu den Erklärungen des Unternehmers gemacht."

2, "ja, nein, nein, nein,", "nein, nein, nein, ja"
no error = "Es sind keine Fehler vorhanden."

3, "ja, nein, nein, ja"
error = "Ihre Auswahl ist unzulässig, da die von Ihnen ausgewählten Aussagen sich inhaltlich widersprechen."

hmmmmm

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30 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

Everything with 19% VAT (no. 1 and 2) is German VAT and has to be claimed in your normal Unsatzsteuer-Voranmeldung.

 

No. 3 is a case for the BOP form.

 

 

 

wow, now it's clear. thank you!

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Ok, it says "keine" in the first choice --> the correct answer pattern is:

 

ja

nein

nein

nein

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