Reclaiming payments into pension fund upon leaving Germany

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Is it true that if one has worked for a company in Germany for less than 5 years, any company pensions contributions are fully refundable on leaving?

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Maybe someone here has a similar scenario...

 

I worked from arrival date in the EU in 2004, but was still technically an American employee (Salary aid from US, taxes, etc were US), does this count as the beginning of my 5 years or is the start of my 5 years in 2006 when I became a "local" employee of our office in Munich?

 

Thanx very much if anyone has an answer!

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from where I stand, the 5 years mean 5 years of paying into the German public pension system. However, if you can get a refund depends on your nationality or rather the country where you are going to from here to live/work. If it is an EU memberstate or one of the many states/nations with which Germany has bilateral pension agreements, a refund is not possible, the funds will be counted somehow against pension claims from this next country.

 

You can find a list of all nations with which Germany has made pension agreements and where- if you go to there - you will not be able to claim a refund on your German public pension payments here:

http://www.dvka.de/oeffentlicheSeiten/Staatenuebersicht.htm

 

Cheerio

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Just for kicks, ask them also how much you'd get from the pension system if you were 65 today. It's really sickening! So... take the cash and invest it yourself. We're talking thousands to tens of thousands of EURO today verses less than 50 EURO a month at 67 (if the German system exists then).

Really?! A colleague closing to retirement advised me to keep my money in the German pension because when I reach retirement age, I can come back to Germany to retire with the money. 50 Euro a month ain't gonna buy me even a drink if Germany has a repeat inflation: "By late 1923 it took 200 billion marks to buy a loaf of bread. Millions of the hard-working, thrifty German people found that their life's savings would not buy a postage stamp. They were penniless." (Quote from Nightmare German Inflation)

 

 

more than 5 years -> if you do not opt to get your contribution back, you will be eligible for a German pension

How do you opt out?

 

 

As far as I know, not the company pensions, but the state pensions are refundable.

WTF?! Company pension is the half, no?!

 

 

if you stay under 60 months you get the Pension monies back

Does this include student days where you don't pay into Pension?

 

*Remind self to leave the country soon*

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How do you opt out?

WTF?! Company pension is the half, no?!

IMHO you cannot opt out from the state pension.

 

 

WTF?! Company pension is the half, no?!

You are confusing two things: the 50% that your employers pays into the state scheme & any voluntary scheme that an employer may offer over & above.

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I'm referring to what tom_a wrote:

 

 

more than 5 years -> if you do not opt to get your contribution back, you will be eligible for a German pension
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There are some very useful English language publications of the Deutsche Rentenversicherung:

You can download them online or even order paper copies to be sent to you (free)

 

Working in Germany and the United States of America

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...rmany__usa.html

 

Living and Working in Europe (English version)

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...__englisch.html

 

Working in Germany and in non-contracting states

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...ng__states.html

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from where I stand, the 5 years mean 5 years of paying into the German public pension system. However, if you can get a refund depends on your nationality or rather the country where you are going to from here to live/work. If it is an EU memberstate or one of the many states/nations with which Germany has bilateral pension agreements, a refund is not possible, the funds will be counted somehow against pension claims from this next country.

It all depends on the agreement. There is, for instance, a bilateral agreement between Germany and the USA, but US citizens can get pension contributions back under certain circumstances.

 

From the brochure I posted a link to above:

 

 

Americans can get their contributions refunded according to the German-American Social Security Agreement if the contributions were paid for less than 60 months, an insurance obligation with the German pension insurance fund no longer exists and the place of residence has been moved to outside the European Union, e.g. to the USA.

 

Furthermore, at least 24 months must have passed since the liability for insurance has expired. Compulsory contributions will be refunded to the amount you paid in. Voluntary contributions will be refunded to half the amount you paid in. The contribution share paid by your employer cannot be refunded to you.

 

Please note:

With the refund of contributions your insurance is completely dissolved. This means you have no further claims for pension benefi ts from any of the insurance times prior to the dissolving of your insurance and the refund of contributions. This is also valid for those periods of time for which you do not get any refund, for instance because your employer or the state had paid them solely.

 

After having paid contributions for at least 60 months (general waiting period) you are eligible to claim an old-age pension in Germany as soon as you turn 65. Regarding the waiting period, German and American times of insurance will be added together. Let your pension insurance institution check fi rst, whether you might fulfill the waiting period before you ask to get the contributions refunded.

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From the brochure mentioned above

 

"Furthermore, at least 24 months must have passed since the liability for insurance has expired. Compulsory contributions will be refunded to the amount you paid in. Voluntary contributions will be refunded to half the amount you paid in. The contribution share paid by your employer cannot be refunded to you."

 

I believe your pay stub only shows your contribution not the employers? So I guess if you just add up what you've paid in then that will let you know what will be paid out at least 24 months after you leave the EU, if requested?

 

Just hope the Euro is at least the same or higher against the dollar.

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Ok guys i have a reverse experience on this.After living for a certain time in Germany the German pension L.V.A. sent me a form to be filled out.Basically the money i had paid in to in England for 4 years (the LVA wanted info) would be transferred to the German scheme.So i reckon that if you are moving and settleing down within the E.U. then pensions will be transferred to the country you settle down in after a certain time period has passed

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Hi,

I am leaving Germany soon and besides having to deal with many things to relocate, I'd like to get back my retirement funds in which I paid the last 3.5 years.

I heard that I can start submitting my application to claim it back even before I leave and it'll take about 6 months. This is done through a tax professional.

Has anyone (or you know of someone) done this before themselves?

 

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Check out this thread for more info:

Pension insurance refunds on leaving Germany

 

You have to wait, as far as I know, at least two years from the time you are no longer contributing before you can claim the employee portion of payments back. You will be unable to get the employer payments back.

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and on top of what highered road above, it depends on where you are going to pick up residency next. If it is a EU memberstate or another country with which Germany has made bilateral pension agreements (see list disclosed probably in the thread highered mentions) that you will not get a refund but the local pension system will compute in the funds from your German pension dues.

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hi Toytowners..

Need some of your experience to help me out before I start battling with the Finanzamt! :)

I started a job in Munich- Germany with the German Green Card System in 2000.

I left Germany in 2007 and moved to the US.

At the time I left Germany, I had the so-called "Niederlassungserlaubnis".

Since I've been away from Germany for more than 6 months, they've taken that away and now, I am going to Germany for the last time to clean things up and settle other formalities needed for a final move to the US.

Can I ask the Finanzamt for the return of my complete Pension Fund (Rentenversicherung) that my company had been paying for the last 7 years?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers,

Jay

 

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As the first response said, the Finanzamt is not your proper contact--Deutsche Rentenversicherung is.

https://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...html__nnn=true

 

Are you a US citizen?

I'm going to quote myself from Pensions and self-employed Americans in Germany and suggest reading through the very nice English language brochure that is provided by the pension agency that deals specifically with the US-Germany relationshp:

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/...rmany__usa.html

 

 

I started a job in Munich- Germany with the German Green Card System in 2000.

I left Germany in 2007 and moved to the US.

If you paid contributions for more than 60 months, you would not be eligible for a refund of contributions.

 

 

Can I ask the Finanzamt for the return of my complete Pension Fund (Rentenversicherung) that my company had been paying for the last 7 years?

Certainly not. Even when refunds are allowed, you only get your personal contribution back, not the employer share.

 

You will, however, likely be eligible for both a German and US pension and can get time credit for contributions paid in one country for the other's pension benefit eligibility.

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I am not an American. I am Indian.

I have not moved BACK to the US but rather, have moved there with a Green Card.

As such, I thought the case would be different from that of Americans where the Pension Office can use the treaty Germany has with the US.

But thanks for the Info that more than 6years disqualifies you from the whole thing anyway!

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As such, I thought the case would be different from that of Americans where the Pension Office can use the treaty Germany has with the US.

But thanks for the Info that more than 6years disqualifies you from the whole thing anyway!

I think the treaty could still help you out in terms of qualifying for US Social Security payments as you will--I think--be able to add the time paid in to the German system to add to your qualifying time in the US.

 

What is clear, though: you are eligible for a German pension and you cannot get your contributions refunded.

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