How to get medical degree recognized and registered in Germany

70 posts in this topic

OK - Just to give some perspective - It is 2.5 years since I have been in Germany, and I started this thread. I paid around 2000 euro for 100 hours of 1-1 German lessons before I started my job as an assistenzarzt in Orthopaedics in a Ortho Klinik in Duisburg. I passed the requirement for the Aerztekammer in NRW. After 12 months of work, and with translated documents of (10 years experience in Australia in Ortho and Trauma) I was given permission to sit the Facharzt Pruefung in Ortho AND Trauma. (In GErman). I can absolutely tell you, that I learnt far more german on the job, than I did with lessons and so on. Also, the irony is that there are many patients (Turkish, Rumanian, Polish) who do not speak a word of German. My discharge summaries are dreadful (written German is even more unforgiving than spoken German), but my clinical skills are so incredibly better than some of my colleagues that I have really made a significant contribution to the handling of patients through our clinic. Having tooted my own horn, the flip side is that I am sure that the clinic would rather better written discharge summaries, than lives saved. (It is no exaggeration - don't be frightened by language skills - BE VERY FRIGHTENED if you want to be a patient in a German hospital and don't speak German - generally you can get by with English, but if you speak Polish or Turkish, better to buy a ticket back home!!)

The bulk of my work in the Ambulanz is putting bandaids on kids. It is a complete underutilisation of my skills, but I am starting to slowly understand the mindset - every hospital functions as a private business, and the hospital gets money from the insurance for every patient processed. So when you as a fully trained, qualified surgeon, are woken up to see a patient at 2 in the morning, because Mr Patient "sprained his ankle last Tuesday and doesn't think he can go to work today " you can be very happy that you can swear your head off in you native language and no-one will understand you!!

 

There are plenty of clinic jobs available in Germany - but the work completely sucks.

There are great things to learn from the German system, but unlike my experience in the British/Australian system, there is no time assigned to teaching medical staff during the day. After 18 months working, I feel like a dog's body, where the main purpose I serve is to process a lot of "unnecessary" visits to the Ambulanz, by people who really do not need to see a doctor. I am sorry if that sounds a little cynical, but the Hospital system here really sucks from my perspective. Improving my written language skills would certainly be advantageous to progressing my career up and out of Assistenzarzt Dienst-doldrums, but how can I attend a grammar class when I am working 80 hours a week, my husband works, and we have a 4 year old? I can plate a femur or implant a Hip replacement- who cares if it is das Femur or Plattenosteosynthese des Femurs?? There are too many better opportunities, where I am not going to get my but kicked over das Bein oder des Beines.

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thank u very much indeed for ur precious advices..

is it possible that any1 knows about a medical translation book (Germ/Eng or Eng/Germ)..where

u get 2 learn specific asked questions in medicine?

e.g

"how are you feeling?"-

"where is it paining?"

or other specific ones..

i mean the frequently asked questions while examining a patient..

if u could tell us a title ...would b very helpful...

thank u...

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Just as with travel phrasebooks, there is little use in learning how to ask basic questions because the answers could be so much more complex and you would need to understand them too- and then improvise on how you take it further.

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You can also find comprehensive information on having qualifications certified in Germany on the Berufliche Anerkennung website.

 

Keep in mind that although some Länder will process certification applications for applicants with only B2 German, it will be difficult to find a job working with patients with less than C1 if not C2.

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@Jelly:

Gotta toddler, German spouse, Assistenzaerztin position, too. Highly qualified in my subspecialty "back home" in my English-speaking world as well. Been here 2 years. Wish too that I could take a grammar class so that my written and spoken work could better reflect the quality of my conscientous, caring, skilled clinic work.

Perhaps we have learned to be more forgiving with how the English language is handled by "non-native" speakers, because it's about as universal a tongue as it gets and so many people speak it, try to speak it, WANT to speak it; for a good part of the time we make honest attempts from all sides - as patients, as doctors, as everyday people going about our interactions - to understand each other and communicate with each other, often clumsily, rarely elegantly, even for "native" speakers of English. But so few people, and ever fewer, speak German - especially in the medical fields, where the research papers, for example, that really seem to count are English-speaking ones, and more and more English terms pepper the speech - it's no wonder the folks are a bit uptight about getting each umlaut and declension abso-fucking-lutely right: they're an endangered species.

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I'm no doctor but if the quality of questions posed here is any indication of mindset and skill level, I'll book a flight before I'll make a medical appointment. A book of medical questions? Really?

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hello guys,

I am planning to pursue specialty training in field of surgery from Germany if all goes well then from Hamburg or Dusseldorf. I am from Nepal & studied from Russia so do we also need registration with the state health authority for specialty training as well.

If yes then can anyone tell what are the basic documents & procedure for registration in Dusseldorf & Hamburg. Any other city better cos I got this jus from the net.

 

thanks a lot

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thanks, i did check those links but I do hv some queries:

 

1. which is the first step, to apply for a specialty training in various universities & once we've got it then go for the registration in the bundesland where we've secured the admission or first apply for registration in the bundesland that we want & then hunt further.

 

2. We need to present a letter from home country health ministry saying that it doesn't have problem us studying in Germany but here, we can only get such a letter after we have received letter of admission from the university.

 

3. What are the prospects for NON EU students to get registration & enter a specialty training in Germany.

 

Thanks

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thanks, i did check those links but I do hv some queries:

 

Then you didn't check the links very hard. All the information you are looking for is there.

 

Please check harder. Thanks.

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3. What are the prospects for NON EU students to get registration & enter a specialty training in Germany.

 

It depends on how well they speak German. For example, unless your German is better than your English you'll find difficulty finding a position as a doctor in Germany.

 

If you read the thread carefully you can find links to all the information you could need.

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Well, I agree sometimes I just don't know what people think. Speaking German to work in Germany is just common sense. Why would local German people go to a doctor that speak poor or limited German? I mean if you are feeling ill, the last thing you want to do is, try and describe your symptoms in a foreign language. I would even say working as a doctor in Germany your German need to be near native because you will be working with people's lives. That's just common sense.

 

I personally wouldn't even think of moving to Germany before having at least an intermediate to advance level of German. On the other hand, there are so many English speaking countries like the UK, Ireland, USA, Australia you can choose from so why come to Germany with very poor or limited German? You are going to make life difficult for yourself and honestly I can't see you having many customers.

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I have been considering applying for an assistenzaerztin position in Germany. I am an American from an American osteopathic medical school.

 

My question is what are some red flags with hospitals? What areas are more American friendly? How does the hierarchy of medicine differ from that of US or Canadian medicine?

 

Also, does anyone know what the average pay after taxes is per month? Also, which field is Germany known for besides ortho?

 

I appreciate your time and consideration.

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Dreiko...do you speak German? If not read the previous posts, you will have a long road ahead.

 

I would suggest if you are an American and do not speak German you consider working as a Civilian doc for the US ARMY, however, you generally need to apply and be accepted BEFORE you move to Germany, or else you will be considered a "local national", and that is a whole different ball game.

 

You will never make the kinds of $$ in Europe or working for the Military that you would make in the States as a surgeon. Maybe the low to mid 120K to 140K.

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i am no doctor but I know that in many places (Kommunale krankehausern) doctors are paid with the TV-VKA work contract. a first year assistenzarzt would take about 3,700 brutto per month without the extra payment for Dienst. If you are unmarried and with no children, that means you would take home about 2,200Euros with all taxes and insurances paid. In university hospitals there is another type of contract, as well as in hospitals that are property of the Catholic church. So this can differ. An association which represents many Angestellte Aerzte is called the Marburger Bund.

 

You need to have a certificate of German knowledge at least of B2 level. In some places they also require an oral exam to get the German medical licence (Approbation). There are open positions, but a lot are in smaller places and in the East too. naturally as a foreigner, you would expect to have more chances in places where the Germans don't want to go.

 

In my opinion, B2 type of German is inadequate for any short of serious medical work (I know people who work with it, esp in places where there is a great shortage). You would need to communicate with patients and other doctors, and there you would face problems. It is manageable, but expect a hard first period. I have read/heard that to study medicine in a german university a foreign student needs a DSH 3. that means C2 German. I don't see why practising medicine should be any different.

 

also expect serious medical training to take place in bigger university hospitals. in many other places, the focus is on getting the job done and few/little teaching.

 

ps. it took me ages to write this. with all this german I am starting to forget my english.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Dear Bloggers,

 

I have completed my M.B.B.S training from India, MBBS = 4 1/2 year + 1 yr internship = 5 1/2 years training. It is in principle called equivalent to an M.D. program in EU.

 

I would like to do my Residency/Specialisation in Germany.

 

I have already done some home work on the steps involved in getting there.

Ex Step 1) Achieve Level B Proficiency in German language

2) Apply to the medical board for getting the Non-EU degree evaluated in the province you want to do your training etc.

 

I am also aware that in general germany has just recently become more open to internation ( non-EU) medical doctors than in the past.

 

I have a very specific question concerning the treatment given to Indian Medical degree when it comes to recognisation/license,

#a) Is the indian medical degree 5 1/2 years training, considered "equivalent to german degree" without any major gaps?

# b1) Any indian doctors in this forum who can share their experience on what they had to go through, before they were

considered for an Residency position as required by the law/german medical board.

 

Thank you all in advance!

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Hi,

 

Has anyone done or know of anyone who has moved to Germany to work as a Radiologist? My training is from Australia and hopefully there will not be too many difficulties in registration. I'm currently really enjoying learning German and looking forward to trying out a different culture next year.

 

How have they found Radiologist work to be like in Germany?

 

Are there any good head and neck Fellowships or centres of excellence for head and neck/temporal bone imaging in Germany?

 

Thanks in advance!

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Hi friends,

 

I have completed my medical studies in India. I am trying for a license to work in Germany. I have contacted the Regierungspräsidum, Stuttgart.

 

I am well aware of the language requirements and am finishing my B2 next month. I had a few queries regarding the submission of certificates

 

1. Do we need to translate only the medical degree certificates? what to do with the thesis?

 

2. From where do we get the certificates attested?

 

It would be of great help if anyone in the forum has experience with the same

 

Thanks

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The Regierungspräsidum is responsible to give you a written list with all the necessary documents. Whatever anyone else says is irrelevant, these people will give you the license, so only their word and what they want to see matters.

 

The Antrag containing the necessary papers is here.

 

Translations are usually done by a sworn translator (vereidigter übersetzer) after the Apostille is placed on the original document. This is the norm for EU countries. I don't know if for a non EU country like India, they would want something more. It is best to ask your questions directly to them. Only they can give you a reliable answer and save you the trouble and money of false/unnecessary translation. Any Offentliche Stelle with a Dienstsiegel as well as any notar can do the Beglaubigung for you at a fee.

 

There is no need to translate any thesis, only certificates.

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