Elljay

Feel free to ask away . As i replied much earlier on in this thread, they will have full treatment, just as everybody else.  The difficult decision criteria, amongst age might be one, would only be put in play if and when the intensive care wards were totally overwhelmed. According to one hospital administration, I might add.  I mentioned oxygen especially since that was what AnswerToLife42  again was putting to question.  

No, Swedish. Found the book now by using google.com.  Anyway, it's still not true that those over 80 will not recieve oxygen.  

@MikeMelga After reading your linked  articles  I do understand your frustration with Sweden's governement. This was all " news to me", as it is not at all the impression I've got from SVT, Swedish newspapers  and BBC. Giesecke, who said that other states should have done the same, is however not speaking for the government. He is merely a consultant, blowing his own horn, about his own research. He does come over as one of those scientists that only see numbers, and not the real suffering and deaths behind them.    I also think the reporters were looking for specific replies, to further their already formed conclusions, but that's just me, I suppose.   Do you really not see the difference in asking people not to go out, and forbidding them?    @Anna66 Do you think a country with high taxation is more vulnerable in a crisis? I would have thought it was the other way round?   @AnswerToLife42  Where does the quote come from? Nothing came up when I googled it. Are you trying to put the elderly against immigrants? Why? In Sweden as well as many other countries, the immigrant/non European communities were hit a lot harder than the rest of society. Sweden failed to protect the elderly, but also failed the non European minority groups. The early information seemed not to reach them, even though it was there. Many living together  in crammed conditions made it worse. 

I've seen ads from Dyson; their purifiers also cool - or heat - the room, they claim.  Would love one myself, but alas, they are very pricey. 

I tried to check what @MikeMelga said; since I could'n remember reading anything like that in Swedish news at the time.  It might have been/was  reported that way in foreign media, but no, there was nothing said by governement/Health ministry that any other state ought to do things "the Swedish way", nor was it claimed anything about herd immunity. I found an article in Dagens Nyheter, from today, where it explicitly stated that as facts. Dagens Nyheter is not pro governement, by the way, but it is one of the most respected morning papers in Sweden.

I don't recall Sweden trying to set an example or wanting to lead the way for other nations.   It is in the densely populated areas the numbers high, very high - though Malmö has escaped  for some reason -  in the rest of the country there are quite few cases.   It was never claimed by the authorities that their measures were aimed at  herd immunity -  or to save the economy; though it was speculated by others that herd immunity could be a welcome side effect.   For the umptieth time: it would have been against the law to order a tough lockdown. It would have been seen as a coup d'etat. 

@MikeMelga Indeed. Keeping my fingers crossed. 

@MikeMelga Yesterday was a holiday in Sweden, so it's a long weekend for many. Numbers might go up next week. Citizens have been asked to stay in, like on Easter.  We'll se how that works.

The constitution is rather "sacred"...

This is a google translate of an article in a Swedish morning paper, my bolds.  So unfortunately they will have to rely on "the common sense" of the Swedes. I apologise for the wall of text and the translation, but thought I should put it here, since their "chosen" way is so much critisised.   Therefore, Sweden cannot issue a curfew UPDATED 24 APRIL 2020PUBLISHED 2 APRIL 2020 Many countries have restricted their citizens' freedom of movement as a result of the new corona virus. But there is no support in Swedish law to go completely in the footsteps of other countries. Some restrictions have also been introduced in Sweden and legislative changes have been made to, for example, be able to close schools. But the Swedish key words are still freedom under responsibility. One explanation for this is found in our law system - our right to move is namely constitutionally protected. Freedom of movement constitutionally protected Thus, a general curfew is not possible under Swedish law. Our constitution, the form of government, puts a stop to restrictions on freedom of movement without the support of law. - According to the preliminary work on the form of government, this means that special legislation is needed to prohibit moving freely in a "certain country end" or to visit other parts of the country. It also applies to prohibitions on restricting citizens' right to leave their place of residence, barring large areas such as border zones and parts of the archipelago, says Titti Mattsson, a professor of public law at Lund University. What can be done with support in law is to put individuals who have been infected or exposed to quarantine. Then they must neither leave nor receive visits. It is also possible to delineate a certain area, which is sometimes incorrectly referred to as quarantining an area, if there is a suspicion that a socially dangerous infection has spread there. - In principle, it is possible to delineate a certain geographical area in Sweden, but then there is a need for reasonable reasons for it, says Titti Mattsson. "Unclear how large areas can be blocked off" The Infection Protection Act can therefore limit freedom of movement if the purpose is to prevent the spread of an infectious substance. - However, the Infection Protection Act is not clear about how large these areas can be allowed to be, says Titti Mattsson. When the Public Health Agency's lawyers investigated the possibility of measures based on the Infection Protection Act, they concluded that, in addition to being able to quarantine individuals, they can only block off smaller areas. "It is probably a house, a school or similar," says state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell. He also believes that it is beyond both his and the Public Health Authority's legal competence what type of legislation is required to announce similar state of emergency as in other countries. Sweden has not been in a war or crisis situation for a very long time and therefore has no such exception legislation. “It should be proportionate, necessary and reasonable” However, such a measure should only be implemented when it is really needed and can have effects, something Anders Tegnell and Titti Mattsson agree. - It should also be proportionate to the negative effects, says Titti Mattsson. Anders Tegnell believes that Sweden's slightly calmer line is due to the need for sustainability in what measures are added. - We are talking about something that will continue for a number of months to come and then you cannot do things that people do not endure, he says. Both Anders Tegnell and Titti Mattsson are uncertain about the reasonableness of delimiting Stockholm for example. Need new legislation? - No, that's not our assessment. We work with these basic things, namely getting people to stay home when they are sick, protecting the elderly in every way and keeping health care going, says Anders Tegnell. Nor does Titti Mattsson see any immediate need for a change of law. She believes that in a disaster situation, of course, it is easy to take drastic and major measures. - I think it's important to think that we have a day to come, and then we'll look in the rear-view mirror to see if we really lived up to the fundamental freedoms and rights that we still cherish so much in our society, she says.

 Answer to Life42  cited an article in the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet to show how Sweden doesn't care about old people.    Right (then). The article says that it is  recommendations for the Karoliska hospital only . It also states very clearly that the list of criteria which must be met for not giving intensive care would only come into play if the intensive care wards were overwhelmed. They were not at the time, and they haven't been as yet.    Pär Nuder, the Minister for Economics, not Health, was in 2004  talking about worries for future pensions. He does not want to kill off the older generation.   The current Minister of Health  stated strongly  that everybody has the same right to oxygen treatment,  in respose to the question put to her in parliament. It was brought up by a member of the  right wing Swedish Democratic Party, which seems to have it's own agenda regarding this pandemic.    

Well, as far as I know, it is against the Swedish constitution to go into lockdown.  Changing one of the basic laws would need an acceptance by three different parlamentary sessions.  At the beginning, the governement was asking for greater powers but was opposed by the opposition...  We have not been involved in war for more than 200 years, which might explain the lack of emergency solutions. The care homes were closed to visitors on March 31st.  All citizens over 70 years were told to self isolate. Regarding schools, I really don't know.  But children are not supposed to visit their older relatives.  I've been wondering about the care homes, both at home and in other countries; is it because they went private that e.g.  the protective gear is lacking?  Read today that one of the big firms in Britain want to reduce pay for the staff. I always thought it was a bad idea to make care homes into profit seeking companies.

I was writing a couple of notes in response to the comments about how Sweden is handling the crises, but Janxs Spirit's post came in first, dealing with most of my issues. I have been following the Swedish news closely ever since the beginning of the outbreak, being Swedish.  A lockdown was never an option as that goes against fundamental law. It has nothing to do with "people wanting to dine out". Care homes were closed to visitors about a month ago. Many people work from home. Funerals are just family or on video. Sport events and cultural events have been cancelled. It is not "business as usual".  And yes, office staff, such as those putting in the "numbers" have weekends off. Does it really matter in the long run? The numbers are getting there. 

This thread needs a bump this year . May the fourth be with you!

My point was that Raab didn't make the announcement as Johnson's friend, but as a government official.