• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

52 Very good

About GaryC

  • Rank

Profile Information

  • Location UK
  • Nationality British
  • Hometown Swindon
  • Gender Male
  • Year of birth

Recent Profile Visitors

672 profile views
  1. Pension After Only 4 Years in Germany

    I also wrote to the DRV asking the same questions and await a reply but that may not be needed as the recently published FAQs at  DRV - Fragen und Antworten zum Brexit (  are extremely comprehensive and certainly answered (thankfully) in the affirmative all of the issues I raised in my email to the DRV.    At least this part of the Brexit debacle seems to have reached a sensible solution.
  2. Pension After Only 4 Years in Germany

    Took a long time but I finally have a reply from my MP and it supports what I thought the position to be:   "After the end of the transition period, the EU’s social security coordination rules will continue to apply in full to individuals in full scope of the Withdrawal Agreement, including UK nationals living and/or working in the EU and EU citizens living and/or working in the UK by the end of December 2020, for as long as they remain in full scope."   As I understand the agreement, those within the full scope are those covered by Article 30.  Broadly UK citizens living in an EU country and EU citizens in the UK. As expected nothing changes as long as they stay within the full scope.  I think that means a Brit who continues to live in Germany is fine but if they moved to another EU country they then would fall out of Article 30 but may still be covered for pensions by Article 32.   "The Withdrawal Agreement also provides protections in a number of other circumstances to ensure there is no ‘cliff edge’ or loss of rights for individuals who are not, or are no longer, in full scope of the Agreement. This includes individuals who have worked in a Member State in the past but are not living in a cross-border situation at the end of 2020. These protections cover an individual’s social security contributions, together with the rights that flow from them under the coordination rules, such as state pension rights (and export rules). Member States will be required to take into account all contributions paid into their respective social security systems by UK nationals within scope of the Withdrawal Agreement, whether made before or after the end of December 2020.   As now, the amount of state pension which those individuals may receive as a result of their contributions will be determined according to each state’s social security legislation. Social security contributions paid in the UK and the EU, both before and after the end of December 2020, for those within scope of this section of the Withdrawal Agreement can be used towards qualifying for a UK State Pension if the individual needs to use them."   I understand this to be referring to Article 32, and to my situation, where I worked in another EU country before 31 December 2020 but had also returned to my home country before that date. The current aggregation rules will continue to apply, which means Germany should be paying a pension based on contributions made in all member states and the UK both before and after 31 December 2020, as will the UK (in my case).  None of this is dependent of any further agreement that may be signed before the end of this year - such agreement would apply to persons outside of the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement, such as those who move to and start working in the EU, or in the UK, after 31 December. Who knows what rules such folk may face...  
  3. Based on what is in this thread one would hope the answer would be "no German Tax due" but it would be interesting to hear the outcome Gogaga's issue, as the bottom line is how does the FA interpret section 50d(9) of their tax statute...
  4. Pension After Only 4 Years in Germany

    Thought I would update this thread.     While I still await the views of the DWP on how the Withdrawal Agreement will apply to people who paid in before the 31 December 2020 but who claim later, I also wrote to the help link on the EC website.  They have confirmed that because we (as UK citizens) were resident in Germany and paying into the German system in the 1980s, returning to the UK at the end of that decade, we are within Article 32(1)(a)(ii) of the WA.  As such the rules for aggregation for pensions across EU countries, including all payments made before and any yet to be made after the 31 December 2020 will count as normal.    So, if we had, say, 4 German years and 30 UK years at 31 December 2020 but paid for 1 more year in the UK to make up the 35 years for the long-service pension in Germany at 63, we would still be able to claim at 63.  Good news.  Also pensions already in payment will remain exportable and will receive yearly increases etc.   One potential fly in the ointment is that to retain the protection of the WA one must only ever live in the UK or an EU MS.  If you move elsewhere pre payment of the pension, I assume any pension would be based only on each country's rule with no aggregation and if are already in receipt of a pension, you may lose the annual increase depending on whether there is a separate agreement with said country.     According to my MP, the DWP will soon be giving their view on this too - I will report back...
  5. KK contributions and UK military pensions

     - I am certainly one of those in your final sentence and certainly medalling in topics way outside my area of expertise or knowledge...
  6. KK contributions and UK military pensions

    I assume the pension we are talking about here is the Armed Forces Pension Scheme 1975 (AFPS75) as the people must be old enough to claim it now.  It closed to new members in 2005, since when there have been 2 new schemes (2005 and 2015).  I doubt anyone from those newer schemes can have reached pension age yet unless they joined the forces later in life (unusual?).  Here's a link to the scheme rules   On a quick scan it looks quite similar to the Civil Service Pension Scheme (well, the one I get as they too have changed a couple of times recently), i.e. number of years x a measure of your earnings/salary.  It is payable at 55, so quite a lot earlier than the old Civil Service scheme that was payable at 60 and the State Pension which cuts in at 65 (and increasing as in Germany).   So, unless it is somehow not comparable with a "Rente" because it is paid pre-state pension age, and is not, in those circumstances, just a form of worldwide income, it is difficult to fathom why it would be excluded/exempt.
  7. KK contributions and UK military pensions

    John, could be but that is getting quite specialist/specific to a sub-population of veterans (if indeed it exists at all) and the post on the other forum seems to be pointed at veterans as a population.   Having re-read the other thread I am not sure how much I want to poke that hornets' nest again but perhaps veterans on here will be enthused to approach their local RBL branch to put some more meat on the bones, as it were. 
  8. KK contributions and UK military pensions

    Cheers, though I can't see anything in that link, or on the DVKA website that sheds any light on the Arbeitshilfe quote.  All very odd.  
  9. KK contributions and UK military pensions

    Thanks John.  I don't know the answers either but I got the impression that the person feels/felt they were doing other veterans a favour by passing on what they had received from their local Royal British Legion and saying they should all get their pens out and write to the KK to challenge the fact that they are paying KK contributions.  No mention of S1 or anything else.    Out of interest, do you know what that quoted Arbeitshilfe reference is all about?   Having poked the hornet nest on the other forum, I might go back and poke it again as it will to nobody's benefit is tens or hundreds of German-resident, pre-state-pension-age veterans start poking the various KK-hornet-nests... 
  10. KK contributions and UK military pensions

    It would be interesting to track that document down to see what it says.  I am sure one or other of the KK experts on here will set us in the right direction soon  
  11. KK contributions and UK military pensions

    Interesting. The OP for the item was, per profile, an ex-Major and confirmed "I certainly pay no KK fees".  I guess he could be an S1 person (if that is possible) but all seems a little odd.
  12. Meaning of "national" in the UK/Germany DTA

    That would be my understanding.
  13. Not an issue that impacts on me but on another forum someone posted that some KKs have been including UK army pensions in the calculation of annual KK contributions, that this is incorrect and that people affected can claim overpaid contributions back.  However, the process is not automatic and people should write to their KK quoting "Arbeitshilfe zur beitragsrechtlichen Beurteilung von gesetzlichen Renten und Versorgungsbezügen aus dem Ausland des DVKA" and saying that payments made by Equiniti Paymaster should not be considered as a Rente or a Versorgungsbezug and as such the KK should not use the military pension in the calculation of yearly contributions.   Sounded odd to me because, on the surface, there seems little difference between a pension paid to an ex-service person and one paid to, say, an ex-civil servant or other publicly funded employment-related pension. I know the German KK rules are extremely complex, so such an all-encompassing statement may not paint the whole picture. I queried the comment, suggesting that people may want to do more research before just challenging their KK and got short shrift from the OP on the basis they were just passing on material received in a newsletter or whatever... They may be right but too many people on the internet "just pass on" things without considering the consequences.   I tried googling the quoted Arbeitshilfe but couldn't find anything that helped my understanding (could just demonstrate my inability to search the www) and everything else I scanned on the www or on here seems to suggest that the KK does look at military pension income. However some of those threads and articles are quite old, so things may have changed.   So, does anyone know whether military pension income should be excluded in some or all cases and if so, what differentiates a military pension from other publicly funded pensions and why the same principle would not apply to the double tax treaty too?  
  14. Meaning of "national" in the UK/Germany DTA

    Thanks @PandaMunich - glad to see I am still capable of reading and understanding tax documents 20 months after retiring -   
  15. I have just been looking at the DTA around pensions (what else) on another forum and at who has taxing rights for MOD pensions for those resident in Germany.    For pensions paid out of public funds, Article 18(2) is in point and sub-paragraph (a) would suggest that in normal circumstances the paying state retains taxing rights. However, that is overridden by sub-paragraph (b), which says, "such pensions and other similar remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the individual is a resident of, and a national of, that State." National for the purposes of the DTA is defined in Article 3 (j).   So, a Brit who is resident in Germany and in receipt of an Army or Air Force pension, is taxed on that pension, only by the UK (18(2)(a)).  But what if that person has taken German citizenship and so is a national of both states?  For salaries etc, that seems to be dealt with in 18(1) but what about pensions in 18(2)(b)?  Does that mean a person who takes German citizenship also transfers taxing rights of their publicly funded pension (but not the state pension), so civil service or military, to Germany?