markfusara

   

  It's the opinion of this legal studio that the new value should be used to calculate the IVIE already from 2023:   https://www.avvocatoagnelli.eu/progetto-germania/fiscale/   What changes for taxpayers residing in Italy In light of the Grundsteuer reform, as of January 1, 2022, cadastral values of real estate located on German territory are redetermined as of the same date. Although these values will be used for the purpose of applying the German Grundsteuer only as of 2025, the new values will be ascertained and certified by the German tax office as early as 2022 and for the current year. The issue of taking into account the new cadastral values for the purpose of calculating the Italian tax (IVIE) is therefore open, which, as mentioned earlier, takes as a reference the cadastral value "as determined and revalued in the country where the property is located." And this presumably already with reference to the declaration to be filed in Italy in 2023.    

    Haha thanks Panda! It is indeed ingrained but I really do appreciate the precision here. Incredible research as usual. My notes say that also the HEBESATZ has to be taken in consideration:   IVIE = (0.76% * Einheitswert*HEBESATZ) - Grundsteuer   Therefore my confusion as the Grundsteuerwert can't simply substitute the Einheitswert if the Hebensatz stays in place since it would lead to an astronomical result. Or possibily is it then that being the Grundsteuerwert already the newly evaluated value the Hebensatz equlas 1 and that's it?   Anyways, the difference after this reform is astronomical for Italian residents who own properties in Germany. I'm a German resident so I don't pay this at the moment but as an example, my 38 m2 flat has an Einheitswert of 6.340 € and the Grundsteuerwert is 137.000 €.. so the IVIE comes up to 1.041,2 euros (minus Grundsteur) ... this taking the Hebensatz out of the equation.. up to know it would have been, if my calculation is right, 197,55 euros ( 6.340 * 0,76% * 410%), therefore below the threshold of 200 euros and not due at all!    

  Thanks Panda, I see that makes sense. I thought it would still be a smaller value that would then be multiplied by a certain factor to obtain the market value and / or calculate the grundsteuer. But so it will actually be the Grundsteuerwert instead, the estimated market value.   So I guess the calculation to get to the Grundsteuer amount will also be different that it is now.   And I wonder what will be considered then for calculation of IVIE, the tax Italians residents pay on property abroad. So far what it was used was the Einheitswert since it's considered the equivalent of what in Italy is called "rendita catastale". Also, since for a rented flat the Grundsteuer is paid back to the landlord by the tenants through the Jahresabrechnung, will this stay the same? Cause then the whole burden of the increased tax will be on tenants.

I've received the determination of property tax value following the declaration for the Grundsteuerreform. It states that the notification of the property tax assessment amount will be sent around the beginning of 2025. I'm trying to understand though if I can already know the increase in the value that's called "Einheitswert" and which is stated on the Grundsteuerbescheid. I don't see this value on the document I've received, what I see is the Grundsteuerwert which I think should be something different. I know the Einheitswert for that flat is currently a few thousand euros and the Grundsteuerwert stated on this letter is a value close to the market value of the flat...so they're quite far apart.   I'm not sure if there's a way to know this value already (it is used to calculated taxes in Italy on real estate owned in Germany) or I will simply have to wait until 2025.   Thanks

He has that

I know you're not lawyers working for me, I just think trying to get a legal opinion on the legal thread and getting a lot of "just be happy she's moving out" is a little useless, that's all. Someone here, as it is often the case, probably knows the law or has been in a similar situation, therefore the search for information here.

Thanks everyone for the advice. It sounds to me like she could say anything and doesn't need to prove it at all. I will suggest to my brother to ask for receipts and ask the previous owner about the state of the flat when it was rented to this tenant. And yes, I think whatever had been put in by the tenant should have been mentioned by the seller before the sale and it is indeed my brother's fault not to inquiry about it.

Don't get my wrong, WE ARE DELIGHTED she's getting out of there, she is awful. That being said, if someone asks me for money or they'll take the doors with them I'd like to understand if they have a right to do so.. especially since this is just the last examples of her shitty behaviour.    The point here is, once again, if you bought the flat rented and therefore have no idea how it looked like before the tenant moved in, they could claim anything to you, correct? So what's the rule here? Not really asking for opinions on if we should already be satisfied enough with the fact she's leaving.. I thought this was the legal thread.  Should she have receipts to prove that anything she claimed to have put in was in fact so? This would be a crucial piece of information for instance.  Thanks 

5 years more or less.

  Thanks this is helpful. 

  I'm not sure what you mean. She pays low rent cause it's an old contact, end of the story. The flat costed a bit less because it was sold rented of course, which is absolutely normal. I really don't know what you're trying to say here.  I don't know if I would define the seller secretive, it's just that he's sold the flat years ago and probably doesn't care at all about being helpful with something regarding a property he doesn't own anymore. 

  I think he was but they weren't very helpful in the past. Hoping to find the info here honestly. 

  Yeah she wants money, which he's not going to pay, she was the most horrible Tennant and basically lived there for free for yeas renting one room for the price of the whole flat. She claims that there were no doors before.. which to me makes absolutely no sense. That being said, since the flat was bought while she already lived in it, we have no way to know what it looked like before.  Asking for receipts is a good idea actually as she probably doesn't have them. I mean, she could claim that she bought anything in there so if we're entitled to ask for receipt as proof she's put those things in that'd be great. Does the law say that you think? 

Hi, my brother's tenant is moving out in a couple of months and she wants to take doors and floorboards with her (also shower tab and a few other things) because she insists she's put those things in herself (surely there must have been doors..) Now, first of all I'm not sure if she's allowed to even if she did. But also, the flat was bought rented so it was in the state it is in now when he purchased it. She could claim anything as my brother has no way to know what the flat looked like before she moved in. I guess one option would be to ask the seller but he's not been very cooperative in the past. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone has any insight what the law is in this regard. Thank in advance.