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Posts posted by KimKim

  1. Hi everyone, it's 2am and can't sleep, the questions drive me mad.

    Looking for some light in the dark... Any info would be gladly appreciated.


    For the last 3 months,i employ 16 people under "Kurzfristige Beschäftigung" Minijob. They make way more than 450 euros a month and work not more than 70 non consecutive days. So far i have been dealing with the Minijobzentrale with reporting and paying.

    Havent realized until recently the Tax office is also a partner...


    I understand that there are two ways to tax this as far as the Finanzamt is concerned:

    1. I pay 25% lump sum for all the employees earnings (which i dont want to do)

    2. I withhold from each employee's salary a certain amount, relative to their earning and pay it to the Finanzamt.

    They should be getting a full refund of that tax from the Finanzamt, providing they do not earn more than 8.000 Euros a year.



    1. If i pay the 25% lump sum on top of my employee's wages - could I get a refund from the Finanzamt? (probably not, right?)

    2. I use this online calculator to calculate how much individual tax i must withhold from the employee's salary.

    is it any good in your opinion?

    3. Connected to the above - I started educating myself about ElstAM . i requested an Arbeitgeber authentication key and started examining the forms. What i don't understand - do I have to calculate the wages tax amount myself?

    or is it calculated automatically within the form?


    For example - when i fill in the quarterly VAT declaration, i type in the numbers and Elster calculates automatically how much i VAT i have to pay the Finanzamt back. it shows in the bottom line automatically.

    Haven't seen anything like this on Elster/Elstam when it comes to calculating wages tax.

    For example: in Lohnsteuerbescheinigung form - there is nothing automatic, i have to fill it all by myself and by my own calculation?

    I also didn't see where to declare to the Finanzamt that this is a short term employment.


    4. I am employing people since January and so far have not paid ANY tax from their salaries at all to the Finanzamt (I did pay Tax to the Minijobzentrale like U1, U2 and Inso).

    Also - i didn't register any employee yet on Elstam

    (again -  i realized by pure chance that i have to report to the Finanzamt. i assumed reporting to the Minijobzentrale was enough)

    Am i in big trouble now? or even worse - are my employees??


    i called the Finanzamt today and tried to explain the situation and get advice and the woman kept saying - please contact a Steuerberater.

    Yes i know!!! that's what i am supposed to do  - and i probably will one day

    but first i want to *understand* it myself, to educate myself, even do the process myself, and give it to a Steuerberater later.


    so how could i solve it with the Finanzamt? is it possible to pay retroactively? will i have to pay a penalty?

    Would love to hear your opinion and advice


  2. Thanks guys for the info.

    So one does not have the freedom to choose if they go on public insurance or private while working as a midijobber.

    How about when you work full time?

    Are you still required to pay for public health insurance? (both employer and employee)?



  3. Right now i employ a few EU people as temporary Mini-jobbers. (Up to 70 days mini-job)

    They all have privet health insurance (Such as swisscare, barmer, European health insurance Etc).

    so l pay the Minijobzentralle on top of their salaries: U1 (0.9%), U2 (0.3%) and INSO (0.09%)


    No pension contribution (RV) or Health insurance contributions (KV)

    As i understand, in temporary mini job i am not obligated to pay those.


    The 70 days period will end soon and i want to hire some of them as Midi-jobbers. (Up to 850 euros)

    i know i would definitely have to pay their pension,, correct?

    But do i still have to pay for their health insurance if they already got a privet one?



  4. The day i retire is the day i will die.

    What do you do all day long when you retire?

    Tend to the garden? hobbies? reading?

    Also- the word "Retirement" is quite problematic. 

    I like the idea of not *having* to work, but with my profession i *want* to work.

    i like working very much, i love it


    And as for not having any saving - The high income was not always there, it's fairly recent.

    Plus - i am funding with it a business that i started a few months ago. i hired people and i have to buy stuff and it will take a few more months till this business will start kicking off.


    I was just thinking that instead of putting 2K a month on (cold) rent, i might be able to pull up a mortgage.

    my supportive bank - i mean literally supportive personally, i even have coffee with 2 of them sometimes, 

    they have seen me grow from broke to great, so this is what i meant.


  5. Thanks Feierabend !

    Yes i do plan to get an adviser, not just for one time -  For the whole process.

    Before that, i want to do some homework and understand by myself and learn from others as much as i can.


    What i want to understand now - 

    Currently, I pay 24.000 a year for cold rent

    and that is more or less the interest i would pay every year if i would buy property - correct?

    before even paying for the mortgage itself.


    The only way it would make sense is pay 5k every month for the mortgage and the bank interest.


    So HOW do people do that?? how do people manage to pay these amounts if they are not extremely wealthy.

    Is everyone here on TT that owns property very wealthy?

    and also Why do people pay mortgage AND the bank interest if they could live in a really nice flat for the price of the interest alone?

    What do you think?


  6. I dont know what NE stand for...

    I took Lisa's suggestion and calculated on Immobilien24


    So i could pay  3.350 euro monthly for 5 years - that is fine with me.

    and after that i will have to pay 315K without interest?

    not sure i understand that one



  7. no, i wasn't joking, i was asking.

    So let's say i come up with 50K for the taxes. what then?


    is 500k above my means on a monthly basis?  

    what would be an average mortgage interest? would it be like 25.000 euro a year?

    in that case, wouldn't i be better off just continuing renting?




  8. 6 hours ago, lisa13 said:


    Have you done the math and where would it leave you?




    That is a very good question. No, I have not done the math at all.
    Mind if i do it in public?

    so - I currently rent a flat in Berlin for 2.000 Euro (Cold).

    I could pay more than that, say 3K cold per month. i could do that.


    That's what got me thinking to switch that monthly rental amount to a mortgage payment.

    I dont have savings. (i could squeeze out somehow maybe 20k for a down payment.)

    I need a place that is big enough for me to Live, to work (I'm a visual artist and entrepreneur)

    and hopefully to rent out *a part* of the property for a few years.


    I have no clue where to go from here.

    I have been reading TT all week now and feel i understand less now.


    I WILL get professional counselling before purchasing anything, but first i want to understand it myself!


    What kind of property can i afford? is 500k above my means?  

    what would be an average mortgage interest? would it be like 25.000 euro a year?

    in that case, wouldn't i be better off just continuing renting???

    sooo confused now!



  9. I am a visual (and entrepreneur) and right now I make most of my income from my art.

    So far i am renting a flat+studio and declare the portion of my studio space as a business expense.


    Now that i am ready to buy property in Berlin, i plan to keep a designated space in the property for my studio.

    (in the rest of the space i will either live or rent out).


    From googling I was surprised to find that i cannot declare the relative part of the mortgage as an expense to the Finanzamt.

    all i can do is claim the relative part of the Mortgage *Zinsen* (Interest) as a business expense.

    how can that be?

    I am allowed to declare my studio cost as an expense if i am renting,

    but if i pay the same amount on a mortgage, for the same purpose -  i cannot do it?


    The only solution i can think of - is that "Me" (The future property owner) will rent a part of the property to "me" (The artist) .

    And then "Me" the property owner will have to pay income tax from the rental income.

    But at least then "Me" the artist, can declare this as a business expense?

    or it doesn't make sense at all?


    Your thoughts?



  10. Yes, that is the direction i am aiming for, finding a "stacked up" property.

    The link i gave was an example for one.

    i haven't seen it yet.

    Here is another:


    I am more and more drawn to this concept - 

    buying a more expensive property that can be divided in a way that it doesn't feel like a WG,

    Then the rent income will pay for (at least some of) the mortgage, and i will be be living close enough to know what's going on.


  11. Oh dear me, Thanks everyone for sharing your experience. 

    So what do you guys think about buying a much bigger flat, living inside yourself and then *subletting* a part of it?

    i am talking about property that can be properly divided for privacy for each side.

    like a well separated Maisonette or a flat that has a separate entrance

    and i would build a separate kitchen/bathroom on its other side.


    This way, i can be in control of what's going on in the flat and the rent-income could help out with the mortgage.

    How's that for a plan?



  12. Thanks DJ Jay Smith, your explanation was great!


    so now i conclude this type of investment is not for me after all

    This is for people who have a long breath, patience and think about retirement...


    I still want to buy property but i will do it in another way.

    for example - buying a much bigger, more expensive flat for myself and then renting out a part of it for a while.

    (perhaps making sure that there is enough privacy for me and the tenant with separate kitchens/bathrooms?)

    the rent income will cover up the mortgage difference.



  13. well i don't have 200.000 cash, i have a very small down payment and a very supportive bank ;-)

    but that is not the point. 

    I still did not get an answer to my question - what is the reason people buy flats (Nowadays, not 10 years ago) for investment if they don't live in the flat and if the return is so low.

    and it would be better to hear from someone who actually did it...



  14. I never bought property before and now that i have some cash at hand i was contemplating buying a flat in Berlin, for investment.

    I wanted to buy a small flat, 1 or two rooms and rent it out.

    The initial thought was - i will own property AND will make revenue at the same time. cool!


    Started looking at mortgages, small flats, Hausgelt, Taxes - and adding up numbers I realized - the income is sooooo low!!


    i cannot now remember the exact numbers, but if i buy a flat let's say for 200.000 euros and then the actual income from it after taxes is 3.000 euro a year, or even if it is 4.000 a year - what is the point?
    In other words:

    One invests a huge amount of money in a flat they do not live in, paying all the fees involved, (State Taxes, Notary, Makler)
    taking risks with the property itself, hoping there are no roofs in need to be replaced or surprise elevators to be built,
    Then all the administration and time involved with tenants - all this for 300 or 400 euros profit a month?


    So my question to any of you who bought a flat and rented it out - 

    WHY do you do it?