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Everything posted by oxycom

  1. Hey everyone,   Can someone please help me to figure the proper response/action to the lawyer firm that my former gym (Clever Fit) hired to charge me for the two months (+ all other "debt" fees) when they were closed during Corona-Crisis?   So here is the case:   * I always paid in cash, every month, never gave them SEPA mandate (probably irrelevant, just in case). * I properly notified them about termination and received an official confirmation that the last contract day is June 30th, 2020 (was long before all this Corona problems). * Then they closed somewhere in the middle of March because of Corona-Crisis and re-opened only in June (I paid for March entirely and have a receipt) * If I understood this article correctly people are not supposed to pay for the period when gym is closed. And if people are somehow charged then they are entitled either for refund, extension of the contract or some "vouchers". But since I always paid in cash they couldn't automatically charge me and I was sure I don't have to pay for that either. * When in April I received a letter from them that I should pay for April, I sent them e-mail (noted in their letter) that I'm not going to pay for any month that they are closed, and that my termination date is already known and irreversible, and I cannot and don't want to extend it. * There were a number of e-mail conversations (in German, I didn't use English to avoid misunderstanding) till September, and their stance was something like this `Diesbezüglich haben wir Rücksprache mit der Rechtsabteilung gehalten. Diese teilte uns mit, dass wir Anspruch auf Zahlung der vertraglich vereinbarten Beiträge für die entsprechende Laufzeit.` and at some point they stopped replying to my emails. * When they re-opened in June I transferred (on 09.06.2020) money for June + a full half-year service fee, and transfer included the following "Verwendungszweck":`Letzler Beitrag für JUNI (02.06.2020 - 30.06.2020) und halbjährliche Servicepauschale. My Name and client number`. I have a bank statement that clearly indicates that note.   But what they eventually did is that they claimed this transfer was for April and May (when they were closed, funnily enough the amount is the same) and that I should still pay for June + service fee. I pointed to their mistake providing a bank statement and reminding them that I'm not supposed to pay for May and April, but they never replied. And today I received a letter from their lawyer firm with the following content (I highlighted the part where they specifically mention period for what I already paid):   ``` in vorbezeichneter Angelegenheit zeigen wir an, dass wir die rechtlichen Interessen der Firma CF Berlin GmbH anwaltlich vertreten. Eine auf uns lautende entsprechende Legitimierung wird anwaltlich versichert. Sie sind Ihren Zahlungsverpflichtungen aus dem mit unserer Mandantschaft geschlossenen Mitgliedsvertrag nicht nachgekommen. Art und Höhe der bislang offenen Haupt- und Nebenforderung entnehmen Sie bitte dem beiliegenden Forderungskonto. Aufgrund des eingetretenen Zahlungsverzugs sind Sie gern. §§ 286 Abs 1, 288 BGB verpflichtet, die damit einhergehenden Verzugsschäden zu tragen. Hierunter fallen auch die hier angefallenen RA-Gebühren, die Sie bitte ebenfalls dem beiliegenden Forderungskonto entnehmen. ... Namens und in Vollmacht unserer Mandantschaft fordern wir Sie auf, die Gesamtforderung bis spätestens zum 17.10.2020 auf eines unserer Kanzleikonten zu überweisen. Wir haben Geldempfangsvollmacht. Bitte geben Sie immer unser genanntes Aktenzeichen an, damit Ihre Zahlung hier im Haus zugeordnet werden kann. Sofern Sie den Gesamtbetrag nicht in einer Summe zahlen können, besteht die Möglichkeit, eine angemessene Ratenzahlung zu vereinbaren. Zwecks Klärung der Abzahlungsmodalitäten setzen Sie sich bitte ebenfalls bis zur oben genannten Frist schriftlich mit unserer Kanzlei in Verbindung. Bei fruchtlosem Fristablauf werden wir gerichtliche Schritte gegen Sie einleiten. Es wird ausdrücklich auf die hierdurch für Sie entstehenden Mehrkosten und Unannehmlichkeiten hingewiesen. ... * Mitgliederbeitrag vom 01.06.20 bis 30.06.20, Hauptforderung 5 %-Punkte über Basiszins (Zinsen ab Zustellung MB) 19.90€ * Servicepauschale vom 01.01 20 bis 31.05.20 Hauptforderung 5 %-Punkte über Basiszins (Zinsen ab Zustellung MB) 19.90€ * Mahnkosten 22.50€ * RA-Geb. Nr. 2300 VV RVG (Gegenstandswert 39.80 €) Basiszins -0,88 % 70.20€   GESAMTFORDERUNG 132,50 € ```   Did I do something wrong in this case or am I missing something? And what would be the appropriate course of action for me?   P.S: One could think I could support them in this hard time and pay for the period when they were closed. And initially they claimed just 39.80 €, so it's not about money really. The thing is that gym was dirty all the time, most of the trainers were incompetent, some were rude. That's why I decided to terminate the contract in the first place and I don't want to "support/finance" them just out of principle now. Thanks a lot for the help! Alex  
  2. Gym/Clever Fit wants to collect nonexistent debt

      Awesome, thanks a lot @jeba!
  3. Gym/Clever Fit wants to collect nonexistent debt

    I hope someone can still chime in, give an advice, share their experience or just help me to proof read my potential reply to the lawyer firm (in German) that I'd be eternally grateful for, but here's my plan for the next week. I'll try to describe my steps and outcome as much detailed as possible just in case it helps anyone in the future who may end up in the same nasty situation (or just enjoy reading this soap opera): I'm going to write an objection letter ("Widerspruch", in German) and send it via E-Post (because why not). As far as I understand I don't need to use a registered mail yet ("Einschreiben Einwurf") since it's "just" to let lawyer firm know that I don't agree with the claim and have all the proofs to back my objection in case they decide to go to court and move on to "Mahnbescheid". In the letter to the lawyer firm I want to: stress that Clever Fit misinformed them since I paid for the mentioned period in June, long ago. mention that I clarified their mistake multiple times using email that was mentioned in their official "Mahnung" letters indicating dates of these emails, maybe even attach one. attach bank statement that clearly indicates date, amount and the the purpose ("Verwendungszweck") of the payment (I also have the paper receipts for all months I paid to them except Mai and April obviously) attach official confirmation of contract termination ("Kündigung", last day is June 30th), implying that they couldn't just extend my contract to compensate for Mai and April when they were closed. If I used this Risk calculator correctly then my risk if we go to the court and I lose the case (IANAL after all, who knows) would be somewhere between ~500-1000€ (I have the same case for my spouse, I'm not sure how that would work and whether we can join this into one case, 1000€ is just the worst case scenario if I bear doubled costs for both of us). As far as I understand if I win then they'll have to cover all the costs. Otherwise, yeah, 1000€ is quite bit, but just a thought that someone can come to you and lie that you owe them money infuriates me and I cannot tolerate that, that's more important than money. And I'm really curious how courts work in Germany, will be my first case for the past 7 years I live here. As far as I managed to figure out, this case will be handled in the Local Court ("Amtsgericht", since amount is less than 5,000€) and technically I can represent myself in the court without a lawyer there. If I get a real court order ("Mahnbescheid") I'll likely involve a lawyer though, but 1000€ may be worth checking whether I can handle that on my own or not, let's see. Would be great if anyone who sees any obvious flaws in my "strategy" correct me.   Thanks!
  4. Gym/Clever Fit wants to collect nonexistent debt

      Thanks for reply @snowingagain! I've read this one already, they basically just recommend you to: have a proof of the contract termination in case fitness studio wants to automatically extend your contract stop paying for the months when studio is closed (e.g. cancel direct debits/standing orders) But neither is a problem for me since I 1) have a proper written confirmation of the termination and they don't try to extend it yet and 2) they didn't have any way to automatically charge me so they just used my June payment to cover the months when there were closed and trying to collect June "debt" with the help of lawyer firm.   I'm not sure how to properly react to the lawyer firm notice I received today and what they can do to me if I don't object in any way. I guess I can go to the lawyers as well and pay them to defend me, likely it will be a win case, but I'm wondering if I can defend myself on my own in this case.