arunadasi

  In my experience these are usually single toilets, lockable, with no common space, for instance there are such toilets put up in the middle of cities in case someone has to go; of course they are better than nothing. And nobody is saying public female toilets are a "must"; it's just that when they do exist, for instance in restaurants, train stations and airports, they are a godsend for females because we do have other "needs", and I still don't see the benefit of opening the women's ones to men.   As I said before: it's not just a question of safety or of being attacked; it's a question of privacy. Women use the restrooms for more than pee and crap. If we do have these spaces, we'd like to keep them, thank you. Yes, maybe it is female privilege; but don't you think a little privilege is due to us?   There is a movement in the UK towards self ID which means that anyone at any time can declare themselves the opposite sex, and to question this is illegal. No hormones or operation needed. And you can change back the next day if you want. Do you really think that all men are so honourable as to not abuse the system? Even after the whole #metoo movement?   How do you feel about the demand of transwomen that lesbians should have sex with transwomen with penises? That if they don't it's transphobic? Many lesbians in the UK are up in arms about this.   I am concerned about the very definition of woman is being taken away from women, and with it go all our hard-won rights and protections. That is all. The bullying and aggression that goes with some of these activists is not at all "feminine", I have to say! And it is destroying a lot f the support and kindness women felt towards trans people in the past. Many body dysphoric transpeople  have spoken out against it and are just as concerned. It does not work in their favour. Even with this mild post of my opinion I'll probably be labelled a transphobe or terf!

 India too, where I am now. Which is why I NEVER use public toilets here, unless in top class hotels! (Or at the airport, when I have to to.)   A major problem in India is poor rural women who have no toilets at all and have to go in the fields. This is where predators wait and where they are sometimes raped. A toilet at home is a luxury for these women.   This was actually my situation when I was 23 and living in a hut without a toilet or bathroom. I used to go in the field next door with a spade. Wait till there was noone around -- the only other people who "went" there were sadhus.

  No, they don't do it standing outside but I've seen a woman with a huge period "accident" in the restroom and she needed help from others as she didn't have a change of clothes. This does happen.  I've seen countless women changing their clothes because they are going to a party after work or something. And as I said above, when travelling to or from Asia I see women changing their outfits completely.   Only once I used the men's but it was at an Autobahn service station in France and the women's queue was a mile long! So some lady who worked there took a bunch of us into the men's. You couldn't/shouldn't do that the other way around. 

    I did say in my post above that " I think men don't mind about privacy that much. " We ARE different, have different biological needs and different privacy needs. A woman walking past a row of men standing at a urinal? Men tend to shrug it off. You say it's common where you're from -- but is there a huge protest on the part of men? They "tolerate" it, you say. Women don't tolerate it. Men walking past a woman changing her tampon? Well...   Do you see the difference?

I think I saw an intersex baby when I was 20, travelling in Ecuador. Born to a woman in an Ecuadorian fishing village. I saw the baby just after it was born and couldn't tell the sex. I asked the women there (midwife delivery) and they just shrugged. I often thought about that baby over the years, wondering what happened. I had no idea at the time that such a thing as intersex existed.

No.Women know that they can do that there, just as they know they can put on makeup, cry, vomit  when they've drunk too much, deal with period accidents etc in the ladies'. It's a private space for all these intimate things. That's what the space in front of the ladies' loos is for. We understand that. Just like the changing rooms  and showers at swimming pools -- lots of naked women in there. You don't think, oh hell, someone might get offended seeing me naked. You just get out of your things. But you don't want men walking in while doing so.

  I don't have an answer to the trans problem, but I think single toilets are probably best. My concern is solely about making all toilets available for everyone; ie "gender neutral"  = no private space for women and girls. I think men don't mind about privacy that much. i know that in France sometimes when the women's queues get too long they just march into the men's. (gender neutral is a misnomer. My argument is about bodies, not about gender; bodily functions and privacy for those who need it. )

Sweet Jesus, I just read the lead article in the DM (crosses herself). The comments, oh the comments! They are all rooting for No Deal, and think crashing out of the EU is going to be Just Dandy... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6563023/More-200-MPs-tell-Theresa-rule-leaving-without-agreement.html

 You cannot change your clothes in a cubicle. Well, I suppose you can but it's awkward.   And nobody has yet answered the question: are there urinals in these "everybody can use them" restrooms? Going into the toilet that YOU want is not an option if it disturbs the privacy and dignity of others. But I guess men aren't bothered ovemuch.

I'm happy for them to answer the call of nature in a secure way. But it should not be at the expense of the privacy, intimacy and security of women and girls, who have really had  to fight for their private spaces and shouldn't be bullied into sharing with male bodied people , And I am not the religious right. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

Theresa May:   HA Gotcha!  (pleasepleaseplease)

Ireland might be a good option... if you are on a low income you can get a medical card and all will be paid, and even if not, the public health system does support you, just that you have to pay a bit for consultations etc. My own doctor was very lax about it even before I got a medical card (which I got because of my German health insurance.) You can take out private health insurance there as well, which is a fraction of German private health insurance.  Rents are pretty high but they love artists and there are all sorts of grants. My daughter's sister in law is self employed as an artist (singer) and seems to be quite happy with her low income and occasional jobs.

  I won't get into a discussion about gender-neutrality bad or good but about toilets, I will have a say. I really don't get why everyone seems to take it for granted that "gender neutral" toilets are a good thing, or why you're an idiot if you don't agree.   A public toilet is not the same as your private toilet at home. I really don't want to share a public toilet -- with stalls -- with men, strangers, and I would have thought most women don't either. Women like to stand at the mirrors putting on makeup etc (not me, I don't wear makeup) but much worse is they sometimes change clothes there. I have often changed clothes in a public restroom -- especially on long haul flights from Asia to Europe. I don't want men in there.   Then again, I would have thought that men prefer toilets with urinals. Do these gender neural toilets have urinals or not? If so, do women really want to walk past men pissing? If not, do men really want to join long queues with women to use stalls for a quick pee?    If men use stalls to pee they will leave the seats up. They will also leave the doors open most likely.  They will also leave urine splatters on the floor. Does anyone really want to walk in urine splatter? This is why German housewives campaign to get men to sit! And it's possible to keep your private toilet floor clean and free of splatter, not so a public one.    So I don't why Hoops assumes that gender neutral toilets are so wonderful. Really, nobody cares about your gender when using a toilet. They care about your sex; using a toilet is a sex-based, body based thing, we do it differently and there should be two kinds of toilets, for privacy and hygiene reasons. Also for the protection of young girls who are usually really shy about these things, and do need protection from guys. Young boys too, maybe.. Also Indian ladies, Middle Eastern ladies, they are all very shy (and also change clothes a lot in restrooms) and I'm sure they don't want to share. This is assuming of course that this gender-neutral-toilet trend goes global, which I'm sure it won't! There, I said it! Go after me!

Late to the TT party but I hope Christmas was great for all of you! I am in India at present, staying with (German) friends and we had a simple meal and some beautiful singing.