Munich Security Conference 2005

The so-called "Munich Security Conference" is not about international security. It's about agreement and coordination of world wide strategies in order to secure economic power through military interventions.

Come to Munich:

• Friday, 6 February 2004 starting from 16.00 o'clock to protests around the conference venue "Bayrischer Hof"

• The international demonstration on Saturday, 7 February at 12.00 o'clock on Marienplatz

The war planners may not come through - NO pasaran!

great i can finally get rummy's autograph..cant wait.

U.S. Mission Germany alerts Americans to large demonstrations expected to occur in the city of Munich on February 6, 7, and 8, 2004. American citizens visiting or resident in Munich should exercise caution during this period. This alert expires on February 14, 2004.

Bavarian police authorities have expressed confidence that law and order will be maintained, and they will implement additional countermeasures for public safety. Traffic disruptions are likely in the Munich city center, and access to an area several blocks wide around the Bayerischer Hof Hotel, the site of the conference, will be restricted. The Embassy reminds American citizens that demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn into confrontational situations and possibly escalate into violence. U.S. citizens traveling or residing in Munich are advised to take common-sense precautions and avoid sites of demonstrations, which will include Sendlinger Tor, Odeonsplatz, Lenbach Platz, and Marienplatz. Travelers should keep informed of local developments by following local press, radio, and television.

U.S. citizens may obtain updated security information at the U.S. Consulate General in Munich, located at Koeniginstrasse 5, 80539 Munich, telephone (49)(89)2888-0.

This passage comes from the frankly rather scary no-nato.de website linked in a comment above, but might be useful under other circumstances. Like when they nab you for crossing when the red man is on or parking your car on a cycle path. You know, real crimes!

In case of an arrest:-

* Only tell the police officer your name and prename, address, date and place of birth, general description of your occupation (e.g. worker, student) and your personal status (e.g. married or unmarried). No testimonies or other statements, no signatures! In this situation any kind of statement will never help you, but only causes trouble for you and others!
* You have the right to call a person you trust. If possible, call the legal aid team (EA).
* After you have been arrested, the police can keep you maximal 48 hours in prison. After 48 hours there must be a hearing in front of a judge.
* Normally the police will do an identification procedure and take photos, your fingerprints, body measures, any other specifics. Enter your objection to this procedure. Never agree to a voluntary analysis of your DNA (saliva sample). The police needs court order to do that.
* If you are accused of a crime, you can be imprisoned on remand, if a) you are accused of a severe crime, b) there is danger of escape or c) there is danger of prejudicing the course of justice. After two weeks there can be a judicial verification of your imprisonment.
* In Germany there is a possibility to be sentenced in an accelerated court procedure after one week on remand. This is only possible with clear evidence (e.g. a confession) and a maximum possible prison sentence of one year. In this case it is very important to contact the legal aid team or any lawyer. (more information here (in German language))
* In Bavaria the police has the right to arrest you and keep you in prison if the police suspects you of planning to commit a criminal offence. This is possible for up to 14 days or the end of the NATO-Meeting. After 48 hours a judicial decision is needed. Evidences for the plan to commit an offence typically are illegal objects such as weapons and objects to muffle up, but can be also documents with illegal content, maps with special marks, etc.
* After your release from prison: First call the legal aid team (EA) and tell them you got released!

Friday evening's protest action: a few hundred demonstrators turned up. There were 28 arrests and another 147 were taken into custody for blocking a road. The aim of the demo had been to form a human chain around the Bayerischer Hof hotel. Authorities had earlier authorised this chain provided no roads were blocked. In a separate minor incident: around 1pm Friday a shot was accidently fired into the floor of the Bayerischer Hof hotel. Eight people were slightly injured.

This conference used to be a small club at which the Western allies came together once a year to discuss how to deal with the Soviet Union, but now it´s become a huge event with big government delegations, including the Russians. Like NATO itself, the 40-year-old conference needs to discover a new reason for its continued existence.

Some of you Germans are the most arrogant and ungrateful people on earth [Dr.Karl Kaiser] if it was not for America and NATO you Germans and the rest of Europe would still be wearing crosses on your sleeves. For 60years we [America] have been here in Europe protecting you and your way of life because you were unable to protect yourselves both militarily and economicaly. The economic power that your country has enjoyed in the past was achieved on the backs of American Soldiers. Now that the US is starting to wise up and start pulling the soldiers out of Germany we will all see how strong and independent you really are.

Hey, I'd much rather be arrogant and have something between my ears than being dumb enough to vote a nutjob back into power. The whole world laughs at your stupidity.

Troy, you call him arrogant then you have the audacity to write that drivel!!!

What a load of shite Troy, do you get your historical knowledge of the back of a packet of Cherios? :D The USA joined WW2 only AFTER the major turning point of the war had happened. The USA spent thesecond half of the 20th century in a Cold War with the USSR with which it had basicly agreed to divide Europe before 1945.

Anyway, back on topic. Those of you who don't want to see NATO and Co "do business" (literally) in Munich, posters are up around town with details of meetings and demos.

Apparently, many people have forgotten history (which can be very dangerous). The largest of turning points in the European theater was by far Stalingrad. However, the victory of the Russians at Stalingrad happened in February of 1943. The US entered the War (in Europe) in January of 1942. While I will never even think of saying the arrival of the US troops had any affect on Stalingrad, I would contend that that was the first major turning point, and that US troops had already arrived. Now, that having been said, the Russians were fighting on main land Europe alone until 1944. They were advancing at a decent pace, but were still taking enormous losses. It was not until 1944 when the ‘Western front’ opened in Europe, starting with the D-Day attacks. Some may contend that the Allied forces were already in Italy, and this is true. However Rome was not liberated until the day before the D-Day attacks took place. Much of the fighting in Italy until that point just kept the allies in the same place and did not open the ‘western front’ which Russia was asking for. History lesson over for now… onto the “nutjob” leading the US. I’m guessing that the people not liking Bush are mostly from countries other than the US. And I will contend that there are many people within the US who are also unhappy with him. HOWEVER, the pitfall that many non-US citizens fall into is failing to see the politics within the US, and only focusing on the Foreign policies of each administration (since that is what affects them the most). When it came to politics, the conversation around the post-US-election time was the same with 100% of the non-US citizens that I met:
Them: George Bush is an idiot; I want the other guy to win
Me: What do you actually know about John Kerry?
Them: That he is not George Bush
Me: Anything else?
Them: No
Many of them were astounded to hear that Kerry wanted to send more European troops to Iraq and pull out American troops. Many of them had never actually heard any of Kerry’s policies, and knew absolutely nothing about John Edwards. Now, John Edwards. How many people here know what his job was before politics? Anyone? His job was basically to hold doctors accountable for mistakes and cause them all to pay extremely large amounts of money for insurance. This directly led to the outrageous price of healthcare in the US, yet he (and Kerry) claimed to have a plan to reduce healthcare costs. I would suggest not letting the cause also be the remedy. Rewarding people for their misdoings is a very bad idea.
Let me take a quick second to say two things. One, I did not vote for George Bush because I feel he is a bad president, but rather I wrote in John McCain (as I felt he was much better than either candidate). Two, I still felt Bush was a better choice than Kerry.
Now, the things people don’t see when looking at Bush. He made a couple of pretty massive and important tax cuts and made a couple of one time tax adjustments to motivate spending. Most people look at this and see a quick fix rather than a long term solution. Having been in the construction machinery business, I can tell you that it was the absolute hardest hit area of the US economy. But, it is also an area that can be used to gauge economic recovery. When Bush made the tax incentives, many of the contractors invested in new machinery. With this new machinery, and many other businesses looking to take advantage of this temporary policy, there was a rise in construction, and money started to circulate again. While the euro/dollar exchange is still taking a dive, the US economy has rebounded quite well. As to Bush himself, if any of you think for one second that he is in charge of anything, think again. For those of you from the US, how many of Clinton’s staff members can you name? How many of Bush’s staff members can you name? Astounding how many more you see and hear from with the Bush regime.
The ‘stupid and/or arrogant American’ stereotype is something that I find halfway true. There are many Americans who cannot tell you where Iraq is on a map, nor could they speak another language (outside of “yo quero Taco Bell”). But they can also travel 5000km without ever having to use a different language, and that is just within the 49 lower states. Alaska to Florida is very possible, and there is no language change in-between (assuming no detour through Quebec). Try that distance in Europe, and you’ve switched languages 10 times. As to geographical knowledge, I would challenge any of you to travel deep into Bavaria, or out to the countryside in Whales, and ask someone to do a geography quiz for you. Guess what, that’s what they did with the ‘tests’ of Americans. The difference is, when you are from a country, you know where the under educated live. And you will know that they are not representative of your country as a whole. However, it seems to be a pastime of the news media to travel to these areas to show the world the “typical” person from that country.
Prof. Dr. Kaiser is correct that NATO is an old organization with no direction. However, I would contend that NATO has become a redundant cause in the world after the inception of the U.N., and does not need to find new direction, but rather dissolve or join the U.N. NATO’s original purpose was as an agency to include Western Europe in the US’s fight with the USSR. However, with the end of the Cold War, NATO has basically lost its original meaning. As it also does not have the global scope of the UN, it would seem that there is no true reason for its continued existence. I would question why the demonstrators are protesting the conference rather than putting the question to NATO as to why NATO is still in existence.

Troy, so erm, "some Germans are the most arrogant and ungrateful people on earth". well do you think the imbecilic way in which you have presented your blinkered opinion does not show your own arrogance?
Germany, and indeed the rest of Europe for that matter, doesn't need people like you here, so if you're not happy here, go back home and stop complaining. You won't be missed I'm sure.

are there any open discussions for public or is there any possibility to take part without beeing a statesman or journalist? i'd love to see all the cute little protesters from the other site of the barrier

Lets bring David Dimbleby's Question Time to Munich :D

If you have never seen an episode of Question Time. Here is the latest show:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/question_time/latest.ram

Damn where do I start answering you haters of the only nation on earth that when we [America gets a cold the rest of the world gets sick]First I never voted 4 Bush in both election I voted 4 the person I know would do a better job in Irak other than GB.I'm happy to say I am one of the most LIBERAL person.Secondly I took the time to vote.how many of you haters have voted in your countries election?Of course John Kerry wanted 4 more of Europe to be involved why should America foot the bill 4 all that mess in the Middle East?Europe has more 2 gain from a stable M.E.Back in the 90's when there was a war in your backyard where were you and the rest of Europe?America took the lead and stop the killing while the rest of you sat on your hands and did nothing. Hey Hotcrossbun sure I'm happy here been in Munich going on 22yrs.First as a soldier now as a civilian and loving every minute of it.I see it both ways so I do think I'm in the position 2 say the things I'm saying.Surely no country is perfect no goverment tell it's people the truth we have our problems in America but I would rather be an American anyday.Maybe what I've been hearing is true that you Europians are JEALOUS OF AMERICA 4 what we did to you in the past.Lets face it people America will always lead and the rest of you will just have to follow.It's not arrogance it's a fact.

Boy A wants to make a mess and wants Boy B to help. Boy B refuses and says it's a bad idea, but Boy A makes the mess anyway. Now, Boy A tells Boy B to help clean up mess. Why should Boy B help? It was NOT Boy B's mess, and Boy B voiced his thoughts at the beginning that the mess should not be made. Tell me again why Europe should come to Iraq and help us (yes us.. I am an American) 'clean up' Iraq? If you look at the deals the French and Russians already had for oil from Iraq (from Saddam's Iraq), we have pretty much screwed them. So, one more time, why should they even think about helping? And after watching so many American and UK soldiers dying day after day, how could any government convince it's people that they needed to send their boys and girls off to die as well? Iraq's people want us gone; they want self rule rather than occupation. Do not disillusion yourself that it is just the feeling of the insurgents, that is from the people as well.
And YES, it is arrogance. Rome, the UK's empire, France (yes, France), Spain. All were at one time a Superpower controlling much of the (at their time) known world. No one considers them to still be superpowers today (sorry to the UK people here, but it's true). ANYONE thinking that the US will remain a superpower forever is just plain ignorant. Sorry Troy, but THAT is a fact. Oh, and as stated in my previous post, I voted. And the last thing I'll write... The 'killings' in Europe's backyard were stopped by a UN and NATO effort with a mixed set of troops. Thanks for helping the American stereotype of ignorance to be reconfirmed Troy. Please learn English before posting again. It's hard to take someone serious when they write like a 14 year old computer nerd playing Counter Strike.

You know as well as I that without American leadership we would not have had the prosperity we are enjoying .I work with a cross section of Europians ie.Germans,Hungarian,Polish,British,and former Soviet block countries so I see and I hear them everyday how anti America they are.Except for the British those countries have no respect for any other country. America has paid the price with blood too often for those ungreatful countries.We can compare our qualification anytime you are want jip.

Hey guys, it has just been discovered (wawawa.bavarianewsinenglish.com) that our TT colleague Troy has been nabbed by the Munich police. Apparently the guy succeeded in squeezing out of the BMI (Bavarian Mental Institute). He believed he was a Russian spy whose mission it was to gather critical information about the Americans attempt to nullify the Russian and French oil contracts secured with the former Iraqi regime. Little did he know that his signature writing talent and internet postings from his home IP would made him a sitting duck for the forensic experts. He will be sorely missed...unless he manages to pull this one off again...in which case it will be pretty easy to spot. We'll keep our fingers crossed.

Rummy may not be in town this weekend. But Wolfowitz will be.

I notice the ragheads have prepared a protest march again. I'm not sure what they're protesting against. But then, neither are they.

Bush is a GREAT president. It's Chirac and Schroeder that are the nutjobs. USA All the Way!

Nurse, he's out of bed again!

If you people want to protest something...why don't you protest against the Islamic-Fundalmentalist Terrorist? Or beheadings? Or car bombs? Or al-Quieda? Or Osama bin Laden? etc. Whose side are you on anyway?

Troy I challenge you to a breakdance fight.
name the time and place.

make sure your spelling's better this time though, it's painful to read!

The truth is always hard to read, for condecending liberals.

Turns out that Donald Rumsfeld will be attending afterall. The German federal prosecuter won't be taking action against him for war crimes and genocide.

Schroeder won't be attending. He's got a cold.

Looks like Troy was right those American always get what they want.Rumsfeld coming to Munich.

Hillary Clinton is also attending. Anyone going to protest her presence?

To those arguing about how great/terrible America is. Two things need to be clear:

1) governments and leaders act in the interests of their own nations, not anyone other nations and not for "world peace" or because they just want to be helpful

2) the interests of a nation are about gaining power (economic mainly in this day & age). ALL nations try to increase their power and influence.

So lets look at Iraq: supporters of America need to wise up, look past the propaganda of the media and realise that the US invaded Iraq to protect its own economic interests. The WMD thing was a nice cover (for a while); the idea of being good guys and removing a tyrant holds no water at all (the US support a similar brutal regime in the Saudis); instead, as someone said, the oil of Iraq was more & more being controled by European & Russian investments - in fact Saddam had proposed to change the transaction currency of his oil from $ into Euro, which would have impacted the position of the greenback in world markets. For these reasons, the US govt saw the need to switch the oil contracts to US companies, which it has done nicely. Hence the Europeans were not interested in the invasion, and hence now they might be interested in getting back into Iraq and "helping out", because now, having lost their competitive position in Iraq, they need to try to get back some authority.

Simmilarly in WWII - its fanciful to think America just decided to help out France and the UK because it was being a good guy. Of course, it was better economically for the US if democracies won - better access for US goods and more willingness to work together in the future. But the US decided the best way to protect American interests was to support the UK economically during the Battle of Britain with food & weapons. No doubt this was crucial to the Brits holding back the german Blitz. But America held back its soldiers which would have ended the war years earlier. No point saying they were "bad" for holding back either - they were smart. Because as the infrastructure of Europe was wiped out, the US made a pile of money. In the end, their hand was forced by the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor - the US declared war on Japan, and then Germany & Italy declared war on the US, due to the Tripartite Pact. Then the US HAD to join the fighting. By the time the war ended, they had earned a huge reward ... superpower status. The Europeans don't "owe" America anything for "saving" them ... they already got paid in full.

Cheers.

Looks like the liberals want to rewrite the history books again. That's why they don't win elections anymore.

Now why would someone who is arguing that economics matters more than social welfare be labeled a liberal?

Actually I'm interested from a purely academic point of view, and always welcome a well-supported argument against what I've said (sometimes I even change my opinion as a result!)

Cheers

You are not arguing that economics matters more than social welfare from your point of view. You are trying to sterotype the US, which is your mindset. You arguement is one-dimensional and symbolic rather than substantive. You should know that economics and social welfare are interdependent. You might have even actually paid to see a Michael Moore movie. Specifically:

Iraq-"the oil of Iraq was more & more being controled by European & Russian investments" This is actually false. Ever hear of the Oil-For-Food Program? (Run by Kofi Annan's son). Sadaam was actually buying the influence of the Russians and Europeans, bribing them, in order to get them to lift sanctions and gain their influence in the UN Security Counsel. How much aide got to the Iraqi people, not much while Sadaam continued to shoot at US planes in the No-fly zones daily, in violation of the 1991 cease-fire. This is just one example. In short it was the Russians, the Germans and the French who opposed the invasion in order to keep the bribe money (while faining concern for the civilian population) Not the US. Wise up.

WWII-your arguement is also one dimesional...it fails to take into account many other factors, like American Isolationism from European conflicts which stems from George Washington at the founding of the nation. What about NATO after the war...mostly supported by the US. That cost a lot at the expense of social welfare in the US. (It was a free ride for the French). I could go on.

Finally, your premises 1 & 2 are just a cover for bashing America. Democracy promotes social welfare, Totalitarianism and Socialism doesn't. America will continue to promote freedom and democracy, not to mention defend it, for the welfare of the world. It is you who have been influenced be the media.

stubborn americans!

Euros just can't stand to admit when America is right.

That was well done Anonymous. The people at TT are trying to silence Troy. The message will always be heard .They can kill the messenger but they can never kill the message. We will not falter we will not tire we will pay any price bear any burden so freedom will reign.

"America became top nation and history came to a full stop."

You know it's actually funny to read you Euros complaining that America waits until it is attacked before going to war.

Here's a new one...Jaques Chirac refuses to name Hezbolla as a terrorist group. HEZBOLLA! This of course means that they can continue their fund raising activities if France. But the French did ban headscarfs. How pathetic.

What to see what happens when America follows France? Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Lebanon,etc. The only reason France isn't building a nuclear reactor for Iran and supply them with fuel is that the Russians beat them to it.

Euros should be embarassed. These terrorists bomb Madrid and then in order to retaliate, Spain pulls it's troops out of Iraq. OOOooooo...Now they are really scared.

Don't worry though, the USA will continue to sacrifice it's sons, so you can protest and sip your coffee. (At McDonald's and Burger King).

Yeah, this guy should read what happend in history when then Germans, Russians, or French were "top" nations.