I hate Sundays in Germany

Its not illogical, there is no logical necessity for a bar to open on a Sunday night. Why should they get 7 days a week of money generation and a grocer only gets 6 days?

If the argument is the workers deserve a free day I dont see why a waitress deserves it less than a checker. I agree the two have different job hours but theres no necessity to have all this crap on a sunday - wont someone think of the wait staff?

what? logical? this is germany...the concept of logical conclusion doesnt exist.

example: "political science isnt a science, that is a stupid, irrelevent comparison"

Is it conservative? The idea that everyone should have the right to a day to relax? Sounds liberal to me. The idea of money controlling everything and no government intervention actually sounds pretty conservative.

it has been pointed out that this law came about and was promoted by the religious zealouts and the right. So it's conservative in origin.

The church can get fucked. Why should someone else's imaginary friend have an impact on my life? Anyway, priests work on Sundays - Fucking hypocrites...


The bar I owned was shut for a total of 5 days in 2 and a half years. All of those days were around Christmas. One year we stayed open that week, but it wasn't worth it financially.

But seriously - ask the staff who worked for me. None of them objected to working on Sunday. I don't employ them anymore so they would have no reason to lie about it. Go on, ask Marshbot or Helterskelter...

Man, you can't even keep things straight in a single post.

Hazza, you rock!

errright! mr poltical science isnt a science..."voters" ARE the legistlatures. Maybe comprehend and ask before making presumptuous conclusions.

come on, get more desperate and totally avoid the topic and go with a fine tooth comb thru all the posts you oppose...I can smell the confusion.

anyone want a nice cup of "saving face"?

Funny how, on the anti side, it keeps boiling down to "I don't want other people shopping on my day off", as if their day of prancing through the woods with their families would be ruined by the mere thought of other people going to Plus.

Oh and just so you know, I didn't pay my staff any more for working on Sunday than any other day...The Americans who came in for the NFL did that for me in tips

Or maybe it was a pretty liberal thing back in the day, which has now been attached to something we now call conservative. In no means am I trying to defend the church as the bringers of Liberalness to the world, however just because it comes from an institution that is conservative doesn't mean the idea in and of itself is conservative.

you make a good point. Agreed.

Or maybe it's Families can go prancing through the woods because they don't have to be working at plus on Sunday.

No but seriously...I don't think that priests should be allowed to work on Sundays either. Ringing their fucking bells in the morning and disturbing the peace.

I want to be able to enjoy my day in the park without knowing that people are going to church in other places and the poor priests are being forced to work.

No, Sunday should be a day of rest and people can use the other 6 days to pray if they must. With a little planning, they could hold their Sunday mass on Saturday afternoon and leave Sunday for a day spent with the family.

According to their own scriptures and belief: Saturday is the sabbath, it is the 7th day...this is the holy day.

history:
The change from Sabbath to Sunday was made long after the writing of the New Testament. No clear references to Sunday as a day of Christian worship are found until the writings of Barnabas and Justin, c. A.D. 135 and 150, respectively. Observance of Sunday as the primary day of worship appears to have solidified in the reign of Emperor Hadrian (A.D. 117-135), who harshly persecuted Jews throughout the Roman Empire. Hadrian specifically prohibited practices of Judaism, including observance of the seventh-day Sabbath.

...and what about the other religions that have been driven out by Christianity. It all started when the priests started working on Sundays. Before that we had so many mom and pop sects and cults - all driven out of existence by the churches Sunday work...

When I were a lad, the sunday shifts were the ones everyone wanted, because there was a pay premium. As Timmeh wrote a few pages back, students only have the weekends where they can get a part time job.

All this shit alluding to how the government has to protect us from evil, nasty, capitalist Mr bigbossman who would force us all to work sundays is utter arse. If the krout government gave a shit about the welfare of society, they should cut the fucking taxes to a more reasonable level instead of financially raping me on a monthly basis. I'd be quite happy to be "forced" to work the occasional sunday for a 25% tax cut.

Chat Capone and Cookieman, you both insist on freedom, but don't see that German society is composed of different groups – avid consumers, but also traditionalists, post-materialists etc. Germany is also known to be a consensus society, so a differentiated solution is likely, i.e. more Sunday opening in certain Bundesländer, especially city states. (Long live federalism .)

BTW, there is no shortage of 400 € jobs, and longer shop opening doesn't create the kind of jobs people can actually live on.

don_riina for kanzler!

less ringing of the fucking bells on sunday I will definitely agree with. That would benefit society as a whole.

countries and experts with a much more successful employment record disagree:

http://www.waec.wa.gov.au/download/SundayYESargument.pdf

From the above link:


Can't really argue with that...

It promotes socializing which is deemed beneficial to society. Same with other forms of businesses leading to the well being of citizens and society like entertainment, eating and medical services.

The origin of many of these laws do have roots in the "Day of Rest", but as times have changed the laws have remained for secular reasons. Even in the US the Supreme Court upheld States rights to have "blue laws" and deemed them not to be tied to Religion even though they continued out of tradition to fall on Sunday.

As for people not getting to vote, that is just ignorant of the truth. Referendums are voted upon by the people as for example the transrapid and the height of buildings here in Munich. Also, if political parties wanted to add Sunday opening to their platform in the various states they could and again the people would decide by voting.

So, instead of bitching here how about trying to get a local party to back your position that society would benefit from 24/7 shopping and see where that goes. I don't see it going very far outside the large cities. In fact, it would probably be easier to support the extended openings in high population and tourist zones. That might actually have a chance and would/could address many of the problems both sides of the issue have.

Yeah, and the irony is that most students don't work, because then their parents won't get their tax break. That's a sound system, for sure.

it promotes alcoholism and other related health/mental issues. it does not promote social awareness, that is just nonsence...how many strangers actually make new friends...not under the influence?

Please show me evidence of frequenting restaurants, cafes, bars benefits the social stability of society. (are you suggesting this is the reason why they are open on sundays?)

Eating out is a luxury, not a necessity...to use your phraseology: "that is a stupid, irrelevent comparison".


and how times progressed in a sophisticated, realistic way: there are no more blue laws or other ridiculous restrictions associated. Then again, I dont remember the recent patriot act covering this point.


This I will agree with...only in urban environments would this work...how many 24 hr walmarts are they? only 1 in 50.

However, as in accordance with the most current legistlation, it is up to the business owner.

Actually if you read the article what the vote is about is allowing large retailers to open on sundays in a system where smaller businesses are allowed to open on a sundays. Of course they are going to argue that it is positive for their stores to be open on a sunday when everybody else is allowed to be open. This however is not the case in Germany where all the shops outside the transportation hubs are closed on Sunday.

So then as opening supermarkets would help the eating part, they should be allowed to open too, right?

And before you say anything about the planning - there have been several times where the weather on Sunday has turned out to be much better than expected and I've thought that it might be nice if we could have a bbq...If only we could first buy some sausages and steak...No way to be spontaneous here. Plan. Plan. Plan...

ahhhh...a method for said transportation hubs to take advantage of the economic spill off? "trickle down theory" if you want to quote a crooked US president.

However, the article was posted as a direct response to another's personal opinion on how unemployment wouldnt be affected. They make a good case.

I suppose I should invest into a large box freezer and stock it full of such, just incase I get the chance to be spontaneous!

Spontinaity in Germany: going on a bike ride in a local park, after making an agenda, consulting a map, make copies of the agenda, fax them accordingly, file them away in those old school Ordners.

Oh, and get into the matching attire!

Yes, someone already suggested I get a freezer...would just be so much easier to allow shops to open

No it doesn't. That is like saying selling food promotes being fat.

Not for a lot of people it isn't. Restaurants are open to promote social gathering and for people who do not have access to a kitchen which also by the way ends the argument that grocery stores be allowed to sell to people who don't cook, don't have a kitchen or can't plan ahead.

Uh, there are quite a few blue laws still in the States. Restricted alcohol sales, restricted Sunday hours and a myriad of other things are very much alive and well in many parts of the Country.

Of course they do make some good arguments for Sunday openings. However as I said the idea of the article is to allow consumer choice on sundays. People can make good arguments for opening on Sunday, however what I am trying to argue is that overall it is better to have one day where people can relax. Sure people are busy and it would be convenient to be able to go shopping on Sunday. The main argument for this is that with dual income households and busy work schedule people can't just send their wives to the store during week, like they used to. However as someone pointed out earlier their whole sunday wouldn't be ruined if they had to make a quick fifteen minute trip to the store. If that's all it takes I'm sure we don't NEED to have stores open on Sundays and that fifteen minute trip could have been made on sunday. However with dual income families working busy and varied schedules isn't it great that they know they have at least one day they can spend together.

I'd have no trouble if more German laws were brought down to the county level like in the US. Let each Landkreis decide on its opening hours. That way people would have the choice to easily go to the next county, like in the US.

Personally, I need more than 15 minutes to buy a new bed, or car, or clothes, or shoes, or... or...

This is absolutely unfounded and ridiculous.

Eating out is a luxury. Period. an affordable luxury, but not a necessity.

Their purpose ISNT promoting social gathering, nor does it provide a venue for those who dont have kitchens (I assume you are talking about tourist) or knowledge of cooking. The purpose: delivering such an affordable luxury as a means of profit.

The opening hours issue is already on the state level...each region legistlates and regulates accordingly. Its not federal.

I'm not talking State... I'm talking county! And yes, I believe I posted about the federal closing hours being found unconstitutional about 50 pages ago

ahhhh...good idea.

Restaraunts are generally unhealthier than home cooking and are more expensive, shouldn't we encourage people to eat nutritious cheaper meals - its better for their well being.

But as you said above, the method for change is at the local level - fortunately Hamburg seems to be moving that way.

Also, what about whore houses? Why can I take the u-bahn to pauli and go sodomize a whore at 12:30 on rest day? I mean I guess titty bars are social gatherings

-from my profile

Yeah... that came from working with my dogs, when some idiot told me that I should alpha roll poor Joey. Hmm...come to think of it, that's what the German government does - alpha rolls its people to keep them submissive until the folks actually get pissed off enough and start up another world war.

Heh... I actually wrote a pseudo-scholarly response early this morning, but am hesitating to post it because it is long and would bore most folks. Oh, well... will think about whether to post it some more, and meanwhile get caught up on reading the thread.

ha ha ha ha...correct. It astounds me how submissive and passive they are...well, more like passive agressive.

Do you think the Bahn Strikes would have gone over in France, where they have a revolution and protest about the slightest thing, the way they did here? Even when stupid new regulations get snuck in under the wire, you cant even get these drones fired up into some sort of civil disobedience.

However, the punk, "wannabe somebody" lefties are good at making their agenda known...lighting cars on fire, throwing sidewalk pieces at police and destroying private citizen's property. hmmm, what is their agenda again?

buwhahahahahahaha!

What about the protest against the orthography reform a few years ago, and also – sorry, can't resist – against the smoking ban ?

Compare the huge crowds protesting against the War in Iraq with any protests against government policy, and you'll find a bit of a difference in how willing Germans are to voice their opinions on matters of domestic policy.

Okay, they protest things that arent really protest worthy...ignore the things that really effect them on a daily and conveniently hide behind some insignificant agenda to protest (US Policy - or anything the US does, smoking ban, working 20 hr work week with a 20% wage increase). (Bipa, above, just summarized what I typed, but beat me to it)

Transrapide and the bloody third runway are huge here in Freising. Also the local politics are huge! I know people who regularly go and threaten the local burgermeister. Apparently he likes to sit in his massive big chair and stare people down. The joke that i was told about him though is he sits in his huge chair pretending to be all powerful when in fact he's so short his feet don't even touch the ground.

or his personal secretary is providing some unofficial service under the desk...just as long as she doesnt on Sundays.

um I don't know how true this exactly is, looking at how many protests their are in munich (in the Marienplatz) as well as when I used to live in Regensburg I worked in a Restaurant which was on the protest route. Fucking hell did they protest a lot. I never did see it get violent though.

No No, whores are allowed on Sundays remember.