Ireland brings the EU to a grinding halt

Uh oh,... just saw a possibly catastrophic news item on BBC news:

'Strong show' for Irish No vote


Is Guinness really good for you?

Are they letting them do the roads again?

The people have spoken. 1-0 to democracy.

But will they be listened to. Last time the Nice treaty was rejected they just ran a new vote a few months later to get the result they wanted.

There are only a few counties in so far and no urban areas yet; there's usually some big geographical split so let's wait a few hours and see what emerges. But it certainly makes Paddy Power look craaazy for already paying out on Yes.

really? Since when was it democracy for people to vote 'yes' or 'no' to a multiclause document that few have read, fewer have understood and which has been comprehensively misrepresented by the 'no' campaign. So called referenda on compley treaties are a mockery of democracy.

if they lose, hopefully they will do the same again. And this time they should also have a referendum on changing the constitutional requirement for isiotic refernda like this.

The whole point of the treaty was to deal with the "democratic deficit" issue, it empowers the European parliament, and reduces the power of EU comissioners.
Now the UK will also hold a referendum, all those unwashed hooligans voting on the treaty...

the UK better bloody not hold a referendum

as you point out Villager, the treaty facilitates all the things the no campaign said it prevents. Idiotic. Utterly idiotic.

Im all for democracy. I think the rest of Europe should have the chance to vote No to Ireland staying in the EU.

Which is why many have voted no. Not because they are against per se, but because why they should say yes wasn't well enough explained.
Would you sign a contract you've never read? Neither would most people.
So by holding the vote, I think democracy has been served - the document itself wasn't democratic.

Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern says substantial vote tallies across the country show the European Union Lisbon reform treaty has been rejected.

Would voting "yes" have proven that the the people had understood the document? Your argument was exactly the same one that was put forward when the EU Constitution was rejected in Holland and France a couple of years ago.

No one in Brussels will really give a fuck. Look at the European Constitution:

1. France votes no
2. Holland too votes no.
3. European Constitution gets postponed.
4. Comes back instead as 'Reform Treaty'. Same shit, different title.
5. Now Ireland votes no.
6. Tax payers cover bill because of the delay.
7. Steps 1 to 6 are iterative (give or take votes from different countries) until finally Constitution gets ratified. Everyone is pissed off, noone is happy (except Eurocrats).

Treaty of Lisbon (full text) ...

no, of course not. Look we elect politicians to deal with complexx treaties. Putting them out to yes no plebiscites of the people is an utter abuse whichever way it goes

and it was exactly the same argument I used then. The EU desperately needs reform. It has done for years. And yet these idiotic piddling little plebiscites just make reform impossible. I mean good God, one poll has suggested that the main reason most people who voted no voted that way was because they did not understand the treaty.

If the EU has any sense they will proceed with the treaty and just exclude Ireland from its provisions. Which will hopefully have very severe economic and political consequences for Ireland.