My company is joining ver.di

Hello folks,

The company I work for is in process of trade union creation, with the help of verdi.de... We are a German branch of a big US corporation... Our companyhas been known to swiftly close offices where trade unions have been created...

I am thinking - should I join the trade union and pay 1% of my salary to them or just up my unemployment insurance cover and sit tight?

Any advice?

Your company isn't joining Verdi.
Your fellow workers are establishing a branch of the Verdi union at your company.

I guess there will two or three fellow colleagues of yours who are quote keen on a branch of the union being established at your workplace.
Why not talk to them about the issues.

Avoid trade unions like the plague. That's the only advice I have.

I don't know about the setup at your company, but where I work ver.di doesn't operate on a closed shop basis, ie once the union gets in you have to be a member and pay dues whether you like it or not. We're free to choose whether to pay the 1% or not. I'm a ver.di member and have already enjoyed the benefits. You get prompt attention should you have a grievance or just a general question, there are breaks for members across a range of services, and your contributions are tax-deductible.

Crawlie, would you be so kind to elaborate?

I am really against workers union, this is not suitable for office workers.
There are many good professionals working in our HR department to solve any issues or grievances.

I am really against paying anything to this joint, there must be a way to fight it...

Are you being forced to join the union? Or do you just have the option?

Just had a meeting with my HR rep... Apparently this is not an option, our company has joined, so everyone has to cough up 1% of the gross pay.
Bummer.

Wow, someone opposed to extra rights! Make this man a manager!

Still, thanks for the laugh:


If they're all as big a corporate brown-noser as you appear to be, then I wouldn't rely on them for squat. Since – as already pointed out – that 1% is tax-deductible, it seems to me like a win-win situation for you.

can they force you? Shouldn't there have been some kind of employee vote?

that is shit if they can. I personally think there is no need today for unions and I hate them anyways. 100 Years ago, they served a purpose, but today, especially in Germany with work contracts and employee protection, they are not needed.

Think why the legislation is that way in Germany. It is because the unions had a large influence. I'm not the biggest fan of Frank Bsirske (head of verdi), but the unions certainly are still needed. The employees rights would disappear one minute after the unions would stop to exist.

Your company did not join verdi, (some of) your fellow workers did. You can't be forced to join a union.

go here and search for case 52562/99

http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/search.asp?skin=hudoc-en

Your company cannot force you to join - it's against the law.
Article 9 Section 3 of the Grundgesetz defines the so-called Koalitionsfreiheit - your right to join a union.
But that also brings with it a negativen Koalitionsfreiheit - you also have a right not to join. This prevents closed-shops and forced membership.
There are many reasons to join a union and many reasons not to - find out a bit more first before making your decision, but it is still your decision.

The european court decision BL mentioned is a decision on a certain case, I think. They might decide otherwise in a different case. Anyway - first the OP would have to deal with german courts.

@Katrina: could you provide any german court decisions, because the "negative Koalitionsfreiheit" isnt without limitations. For example certain professions (like tax advisors) can be forced to join an organization (Steuerberaterkammer).

Here you go, but basically google "negatives Koalitionsfreiheit", because I actually have work to do today, sorry.

Eine Beeinträchtigung des Fernbleiberechts stellt der closed-shop dar. Daß ein Arbeitgeber aufgrund eigener Entscheidung oder veranlaßt durch eine Gruppe von Arbeitnehmern seines Betriebes, die Betriebsvertretung oder die Gewerkschaft die Einstellung oder Weiterbeschäftigung eines Arbeitnehmers von dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer Arbeitnehmerkoalition abhängig macht, übt einen unzulässigen Druck auf den Arbeitnehmer aus. Das Arbeitsverhältnis sichert die wirtschaftliche Existenz des Arbeitnehmers. Es als Hebel für die Zwecke einer Gewerkschaft zu nutzen, ist unverhältnismäßig.58

58. BAG 2. 6. 1987 AP Nr. 49 zu Art. GG = NZA 1988, 64 unter III 2; Löwer, in: von Münch/Kunig GG 4. Aufl. Art. 9 Rn. 78;

Münchener Handbuch zum Arbeitsrecht

Thanx, that helped. Isnt it weird that the OPs employer and a big trade union think otherwise? At least Verdi should know better...

Well spotted - I am a manager and I know my rights very well.
I am happy with the way things are see no need to join any unions against my will.
Legal help is available and I do not need some trade unions to force me part with my hard earned cash.
(even if it's a tax-deductible 1%)

Bob Loblaw, Katrina - many thanks, I am doing further research, will post the results here.

Practice carrying a sign and going on strike a lot.

and you probably think things are this way because one happy day some managers thought "Oh, let's give them 25 days of annual vacation, paid sick leave and let's not fire people just because we have a bad day"

This is what I am worried about, I'd like to be able to continue firing people when I like, without some trade union interfering

Then I fear that you are in the wrong country - and actually you are more likely to collide with the employment regulations...

As ponted out above, the are no "closed shops". No one can force you to join an organisation you don#t want to.

Neither does Europe have the American practice of only having one union per workplace, there can be several.
That was one of the key issues behind the recent rail dispute.

But once the union membership reaches a certain %, the company can use a deal with them as a standard across the whole company.
But generally, though not always, that would mean non union memebers getting a better deal than they could have on their own.

Ver.di is the major union for workers in services of all kinds and is therefore approriate for many office workers, also i nt e private sector.

just want to opt out of the trade union business...

You don't have to "opt out" as no one can force you to join.
IF their numbers go above X % then any deals they reach with the management may apply to you also as an employee.

If you are in a managerial position and have to talk to representitves of the employees, you may well find yourself talking to the union in future.
That's the employees' decision, not yours.