Hello,
I received a Mahnung from this random website called www.Cliparts-u-gifs.de. I went on their to scan their database for Simpsons characters, but was prompted to register before having a look. So I did, and put in my information and received a link via email to confirm my registration, which I never did, because frankly, the registration process put me off.
So after receiving the Mahnung I looked in the terms & conditions, and it says that registering incurs a fee of 59,95 € to the user! It proclaims that the contract is binding as soon as the site sends out the confirmation email. I'm no lawyer but worked for the CRM department for a little while and am pretty sure that their terms & conditions aren't applicable if they are charging for their service without mentioning it whatsoever on the registration page, in the confirmation email or at least requiring a double opt-in.
So I wrote them back that I never confirmed my registration, attached the confirmation email with the confirmation link and told them I wasn't paying anything. I'm hoping they'll just drop it and leave me alone, because I'm sure a lot of people fall for that shit and just pay because they're scared of the big bad Mahnung.
Does anyone know what my rights are here? Or do I just have to live with the fact that I fell for it?
Thanks in advance,
Moi
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Dodgy websites that send bills after you register
Scammed after entering personal details on a site
See Scammed by the survey company "Umfragenscout" for information on similar scams.
QUOTE (Mariposa @ Feb 16 2008, 4:10 pm) 
This site, like many others, is actually constructed in the way that people will sign up without realizing they have to pay €99. Just the fact that they make you relinquish your right of withdrawal at the point of confirming your account shows that. They all work with the same principle.
1. You sign up on their site. "Membership fee" is somewhere well-hidden, in the small print or elsewhere where it can easily be overlooked.
2. You confirm your account by clicking a link in an e-mail you received. By clicking that link you relinquish your right of withdrawal.
3. You get an e-mail asking you to cough up the money or else ...
It is possible that Umfragenscout moved their fee somewhere so it is better visible, because that will actually give them a better chance if they go to court over a case. In the end though, I am pretty sure they are still mainly making money off the people who overlook the price and are counting on that as their main source of gains.
1. You sign up on their site. "Membership fee" is somewhere well-hidden, in the small print or elsewhere where it can easily be overlooked.
2. You confirm your account by clicking a link in an e-mail you received. By clicking that link you relinquish your right of withdrawal.
3. You get an e-mail asking you to cough up the money or else ...
It is possible that Umfragenscout moved their fee somewhere so it is better visible, because that will actually give them a better chance if they go to court over a case. In the end though, I am pretty sure they are still mainly making money off the people who overlook the price and are counting on that as their main source of gains.
So can I assume that since I did not even confirm the double opt-in email, I'm ok? I guess worse case scenario I can go to the Verbraucherschutzstelle.
Thanks for the thread STB, that was helpful.
They are no doubt scamming you, but they do state it pretty clearly on the signup page that it will cost 59 euros. It's in bold.
Still, I don't know how these type of things could be legal. If someone pissed you off, you could just sign them up for a few of these anonymously. If you got 10 letters like this, that's bound to cause you a load of problems, or money.
Still, I don't know how these type of things could be legal. If someone pissed you off, you could just sign them up for a few of these anonymously. If you got 10 letters like this, that's bound to cause you a load of problems, or money.
I just looked on the registration page and it states quite clearly that they will charge you:
"Durch Betätigung des Button "Grafikarchiv öffnen" beauftrage ich cliparts-u-gifs.de, mich für den Zugang zur Grafiken - Datenbank freizuschalten und für das cliparts-u-gifs.de-Gewinnspiel zu registrieren. Der einmalige Preis für einen Sechs - Monats - Zugang zu unserer Grafik-Datenbank beträgt 59,95 Euro inkl. gesetzlicher Mehrwertssteuer."
There is also a bit in the Allgemeine Geschäfts- und Teilnahmebedingungen about cancelling it: 5. WIDERRUFSRECHT
Sie können Ihre Vertragserklärung innerhalb von einem Monat ohne Angaben von Gründen in Textform (z. B. Brief, Fax, e-mail) widerrufen.
There are alot of scams but I don't really see how this is one, it looks like you didn't read it properly, unless what you signed up for didn't have the charges listed like they have now. However I do agree that it should not start until you confirm with the e-mail.
"Durch Betätigung des Button "Grafikarchiv öffnen" beauftrage ich cliparts-u-gifs.de, mich für den Zugang zur Grafiken - Datenbank freizuschalten und für das cliparts-u-gifs.de-Gewinnspiel zu registrieren. Der einmalige Preis für einen Sechs - Monats - Zugang zu unserer Grafik-Datenbank beträgt 59,95 Euro inkl. gesetzlicher Mehrwertssteuer."
There is also a bit in the Allgemeine Geschäfts- und Teilnahmebedingungen about cancelling it: 5. WIDERRUFSRECHT
Sie können Ihre Vertragserklärung innerhalb von einem Monat ohne Angaben von Gründen in Textform (z. B. Brief, Fax, e-mail) widerrufen.
There are alot of scams but I don't really see how this is one, it looks like you didn't read it properly, unless what you signed up for didn't have the charges listed like they have now. However I do agree that it should not start until you confirm with the e-mail.
Why did you use your real information? You don't have to do anything to get a throw-away mail account. Never EVER provide real information on-line unless you expect to be doing business with them and paying.
woof.
woof.
I would agree with BadDoggie, but I don't want to end up on his thread full of people that agree with him.
Definitely has the hallmarkings of a scam site.
And the address where the company 'Online Content Ltd' is registered has a lot of companies associated with it (probably just a postbox) and all the 'directors' seem to come from Germany.
http://forum.boocompany.my/viewtopic.php?t=1943
And 'Online Content Ltd' is featured in many forums discussing its legality. Just Google it or the UK address shown under 'Impressum'.
And the address where the company 'Online Content Ltd' is registered has a lot of companies associated with it (probably just a postbox) and all the 'directors' seem to come from Germany.
http://forum.boocompany.my/viewtopic.php?t=1943
And 'Online Content Ltd' is featured in many forums discussing its legality. Just Google it or the UK address shown under 'Impressum'.
Another discussion about a similar scam:
Getting caught out by a "free" SMS website
In post #58 Ecentrik was advised by the German consumers association to ignore the threatening letters/emails until an official one is sent.
Getting caught out by a "free" SMS website
In post #58 Ecentrik was advised by the German consumers association to ignore the threatening letters/emails until an official one is sent.
The same thing happend to me with a "free" SMS site (SMS frei schicken).
They carried on sending me invoices but each time the invoice would be more expensive and €20 would be added to the total for administration charges because I ignored the first invoices. Eventually they sent me an invoice saying that legal action would be taken unless I paid up (or something similar) . . . so I spoke to our company lawyer who kindly wrote up a letter saying that I had not used the service and therefore would not be paying the requested €200. The SMS company have not bothered me since. If they dont leave you alone it may be worth paying a laywer to write up a similar letter for you (although I'm not sure how much this would cost).
They carried on sending me invoices but each time the invoice would be more expensive and €20 would be added to the total for administration charges because I ignored the first invoices. Eventually they sent me an invoice saying that legal action would be taken unless I paid up (or something similar) . . . so I spoke to our company lawyer who kindly wrote up a letter saying that I had not used the service and therefore would not be paying the requested €200. The SMS company have not bothered me since. If they dont leave you alone it may be worth paying a laywer to write up a similar letter for you (although I'm not sure how much this would cost).
Hello, I had the same bad experience with one site. DONT pay them! I have solved my problem with the http://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/ .. had a meeting with one nice lady in their office and she handled the case. Hope I have helped.
Its not just on the net.
My partner received a most impressive "Mahnung" by post for EUR 110.
It was very convincing but I've been here long enough to be suspicious.
A quick look at the Verbraucherzentrale website identified the originators as
fraudsters (Austrian)
My partner received a most impressive "Mahnung" by post for EUR 110.
It was very convincing but I've been here long enough to be suspicious.
A quick look at the Verbraucherzentrale website identified the originators as
fraudsters (Austrian)
is this a Jamba/Jamster company?
Of course the internet is just the latest incarnation of such scams, with a new twist.
A few years a go I got a request to subscribe to this business magazine for 1600 USD a year, it was sent to my company address. I declined.
Then 4 weeks later they sent an invoice direct to the finance department of my company demanding payment. Luckily my company at the time were good in spotting such things and checked with me first when I of course told them then I did not subscribe and had not received anything from them. But how many finance departments would just pay it without checking fully first?
There will always be scammers around, the internet is just a new medium for them to use, so you always have to be careful.
But I agree with some of the other comments, unless there is a reason for a website needing to know my personal details (for delivery for example), then I always enter fake ones. Even when this is required then I still often enter a fake phone number (999 or 112) as I don't want them calling me for any reason. And only companies that I know I can trust have my real details.
A few years a go I got a request to subscribe to this business magazine for 1600 USD a year, it was sent to my company address. I declined.
Then 4 weeks later they sent an invoice direct to the finance department of my company demanding payment. Luckily my company at the time were good in spotting such things and checked with me first when I of course told them then I did not subscribe and had not received anything from them. But how many finance departments would just pay it without checking fully first?
There will always be scammers around, the internet is just a new medium for them to use, so you always have to be careful.
But I agree with some of the other comments, unless there is a reason for a website needing to know my personal details (for delivery for example), then I always enter fake ones. Even when this is required then I still often enter a fake phone number (999 or 112) as I don't want them calling me for any reason. And only companies that I know I can trust have my real details.
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