German pensioner shoves Greek girl against U-Bahn

Last Monday afternoon a German pensioner shoved a Greek teenage girl against an incoming U-Bahn at Petuelring. Dimitra, 13, must have had a guardian angel – she fell between two coaches but bounced back onto the platform. If she had fallen into the gap between the two coaches and onto the tracks she would in all probability not have survived.

The police are now looking for the assailant and have published a picture taken by a surveillance camera. The man and his female companion have been identified by a witness who had later seen them in the U-Bahn. Up to now, the police have no clue for the man’s violent reaction. A group of six teenagers had been fooling around on the platform, they confirm, but never touched the man nor exchanged words with him. The police are asking witnesses or anyone who can identify the assailant to contact them at 089-2910-0.


So this may be a xenophobic crime. Will the guy be repatriated to his place of birth when convicted? Are pensioners in general a danger to society? I am being ironic because when a German pensioner was attacked by two foreigners we managed no less then twelve pages. Four days after an attack on a Greek teenager by a German pensioner – zilch.

The hand of Scogs??

I hope they find the bastard and lock him away for awhile. Sounds like both the old bastard and victim are lucky this isn't a murder investigation.

Anybody who wears black socks with khaki shorts should be locked up anyway, he's obviously deranged!

I have seen this guy on the U5/4 must think exactly where

The Süddeutsche Zeitung describes the woman's garb as "Shopping-Look".

You find him, post it, tackle him and wait until the tt posse arrives. A young girl? FFS - typical, bullies attack the weak.

How do they know he is German if all they have is that picture to go on?

Bl;ack socks, sandals and shorts makes him look like an Englishman on holiday surely?

They do both look rather familiar.

Its not the garb - its the stance that is "Shopping-Look".

I really don't want to let the thread digress, but what the hell is "shopping-look"

I think they are referring to the comfortable clothing and the big plastic bag she's carrying. The picture in the linked article gives you a better view of her.

He should be charged with attempted murder. What a jack-a$$. Surely people out there must recognize the couple. Why has no one identified them yet?

I wonder if the police have asked to check Kaufhof's CCTV footage, since she's carrying what looks to be a new Kaufhof plastic bag (See Sarabyrd's link).

does it say which u-bahn stop this was at? Glanced at the article but couldn't find it.

I have been trying to get my head around that bag, there is no Kaufhof in that part of town and she's heading down to the U-Bahn. Closest Kaufhof is at OEZ, that's an option.
UA, you rule. Want me to call the cops and clue them in?

EDIT: Oops, Petuelring. I will add that to the OP.

I just read that they've caught the culprit.

I wonder how he could escape before. I am sure there must have been some people around when it happened.
How could anyone let someone get away with pushing a young girl onto the tracks of an incoming train?

His side of the story should be interesting.
The SZ is going to break an arm back-patting itself because one of its readers in Leverkusen (of all places!) recognized the guy.

I'm glad they got the bastard, but likening him to an English tourist is unfair. Englishmen do not wear socks and sandals, but scoff at such things. The German love affair with such a faux pas is one of the things that amuses the English. Though I had to question my breeding the other day, when I did actually try socks with sandals. It was reassuringly comfortable but I just couldn't do it in the end. If you see an English tourist wearing socks and sandals, then he's not English. Probably a German trying to sabotage the stereotype system.

Well bred Englishmen wouldn't even consider pushing a young girl into a train. They're too busy planning world domination and day dreaming about how the world would be if we still had an empire. English bullies (of the adult male variety) beat up their own families, usually not random folk on the underground. Unprovoked attacks on the streets of England are usually from alco-pop wielding young girls (particularly those wearing Burberry and Kappa) or hormonal knife wielding adolescent males who eat too much junk food. Undiluted violence as an art form is quite possibly the domain of Chelsea or Millwall supporters. So the English can be violent but come on, never whilst wearing socks and sandals! Don't insult my kin!

How screwed up and full of hate do you have to be, to do that to a child? Yes, I do consider 13 to still be a child (cue Kevin-like responses from 13 yr olds). If we're dealing in stereotypes, he's probably a vegetarian painter with a big cellar.

Though I do wonder what evidence supports the claim that the teenagers had not provoked him. Is it just the teenagers' statements? Perhaps they are telling the truth, but come on, how many times have your friends backed you up when in trouble as a teenager? I hope there are other witness accounts too, or else we might be jumping to the wrong conclusions. Don't they have cctv on the platforms in Munich? Are they just at the entrances? I'd have them installed and focused on the platforms too. Some folk criticise the cctv system in the UK as excessive, but this is a good example of when it would be justified.

Hey, we could even have it linked up to a tv channel, financed by ambulance chasers _{*not serious*} .

I'm relieved the girl survived and hope she's getting some support. Why did nobody grab him after the incident? Did every one just stand there and watch him walk away? Wtf? I'd have jumped on the fat bastard. Okay, so I'm not that brave, but I'd have probably followed him and called the fuzz from my mobile whilst still on his heels. It astounds me that no-one did anything!

My boyfriend always tells me to stand back from the platform whilst on the underground and to always make sure there's nobody behind me. I always thought he was just being a bit German, but with frustrated bullies like that around, perhaps being a little paranoid isn't such a bad thing.

Poor girl.

Petuelring does not have cctv on the platform, only upstairs.

Funny how many people scoff at the idea of the abundance of CCTV cameras in the UK, but when a crime is done in GY...

I sometimes think people are so shocked by what the see, that they are too slow to react. He probably got on the U-Bahn and disappeared and unless someone got on the U-bahn and followed him out of the station he got out of, they wouldn't be able to call the rozzers, as mobiles don't seem to work in the U-bahn. At least mine doesn't.

Pull the emergency brake once the train has stopped and notify the driver. Or just stand in the door until the driver pokes his head out and shouts at you, then shout back what happened. Or send someone else to talk to him/her. Most important, get other people involved. Once the Germans have a Führer person taking responsibility they generally do pitch in.

Allershausen -

But that is what I would've done and I know there's no reception on the u-bahn, which is why I said follow him (until you get reception). Heck, I'm like a dog with a bone and I'd have probably followed him all the way back to his house. If my mvv ticket wasn't valid for his journey too, then I should imagine that chasing him would be a noble reason for exemption

As for reaction times, senses tend to sharpen in such incidences and the ability to respond is usually improved. When I was about 16, a friend of mine was attacked in the street and had his face slashed with a knife. I jumped on the bloke's back and grabbed his arm whilst my mates disarmed him. If a 16 yr old girl can do that, then I'm sure someone there could've done something or at least tried. I'm not so agile these days (full of pies and cheddar), but I suspect someone there would've been capable. It's easy to make excuses for indifference, but imo it's disgraceful that nobody did anything at all.

Oh and edit to respond to Sarabyrd - Hear!Hear!

You could be right Allershausen, I even hope so, but it may also have something to do with the general "look away and don't get involved" attitude many germans have.

Apparently he then got onto the train.

Not for one moment condoning his behaviour, but he didn't push her onto the tracks, but into the side of the train and I would be interested to know how fast the train was moving at the time.

so how many is it then exactly?

am really glad they have likely found the culprit for this dangerous crime. wonder what his excuse is?

It's well documented that people are less likely to intervene when part of a crowd than when on their own.

Bystander Effect

EleanorRigby - Less likely, yes, but incapable, no.


The statement that she almost ended up between the carriages should be enough to indicate it was more than just a gentle elbow shove in the queue.

Anyway, regardless of the location, he shouldn't have been shoving a 13 yr old girl in the first place.

Oh and what is it with some folk here? I've been shoved a few times in Munich and when I shove back, they act all indignant and make a fuss about it. Don't shove me or I'll poke you in the ribs! _{Note to the German public: you have been warned.}

That depends on who's making the statement. Pushing people into moving trains is just plain wrong, but I'm wary about accepting the Bildzeitung's description of the incident.


So it's OK to shove back, but not 13 y.o. girls?

Edit: interesting point here in the comments: http://www.abendzeitung.de/muenchen/32102

Wait a sec everyone, it may well have been a perfectly honest mistake on his side; those young Greek girls, especial when they have pale skin, can easily be mistaken for Jews...

Get off your high horse. There's a bloody big difference between me responding to being elbowed in the ribs by a miserable, selfish git (bigger than me) in the supermarket and a man pushing a 13 yr old girl into a train.

Of course it's not alright to shove a 13 yr old girl! What the hell is wrong with you?

Ha ha ...repatriating a German. Yet if this article had been written in the UK it wouldn't have been mentioned that the victim was of Greek origin.

He should clean up his German and get his facts straight. Petuelring was my station for 10 years: Yes, these kids are there; yes, they can be loud; no, I never had problems asking them to tone down; no, the U-Bahn-Wache is not absent, mostly as Olympiazentrum used to be the end of the line where they switched shifts.

I am sure that the witness who first identified the guy (the one who was on the U-Bahn with him) has been interrogated regarding any disturbance beforehand. If there had been any the papers would have mentioned it. The shover will probably come up with "They called me a Wichser" or some other weak defense. If he felt threatened he could have pushed the alarm button.

Is judging the situation, while not knowing all the facts, not also sitting on a high horse?

Agreed. Shoving a 13 y.o. girl is not alright. Unless you're a 12 y.o. girl...

for some people yes but some people just freeze in those circumstances - me included...

edit: fight, flight or freeze...

Could only happen in Germany ... right ?


Hit and run caught on tape in Hartford Connecticut (Video)

Sidthespid you asked for evidence that the girl didn´t provoke the guy. I don´t believe pushing someone into a moving train is justifiable as a response to anything.

Bootcamps for German pensioners!

In all seriousness though, from what I read in the SZ the charges this guy will face don't consider that the girl could have been killed.
The attack on the pensioner in the U Bahn around Xmas resulted in charges that do consider the fact that the victim could have been killed.

Now I wonder why that a lot of so called Ausländers have doubts about the impartiality of the the German "justice" system?

It is also worth mentioning again that at the time of the Xmas attack on the U-Bahn, a journalist wrote a piece in one of the feuilletons of the high end papers about nasty and unpleasant German pensioners could be to the young, particuarly "Ausländers". He got ton to pieces in a froth of self-rightouness by conservative critics and had to govellingly withdraw his comments.
Six months later he as been proved right.

The girl was probably ADHD and simply bounced off of him.

I have never seen so much specualtation before. Wait, yes I have. It was on TT.

FF

No need to speculate.

Witnesses already said to the papers that she didn't appear to be misbehaving or anything.
Her "crime" was to somehow annoy him by walking beween him and the platform edge for which she got a shove that could have killed her or left her with horiffic injuries.

Your info is not up to date. Staatsanwaltschaft has changed charges to attempted murder.

We are all very happy the girl survived, and there is no excuse for what the man did. That said, is it really necessary to engage in ritual German-bashing over one person's inexcusable violence?

What thread are you reading?

Thanks Luvlein , too busy at work today to keep up with the story online.

This story has brought out into the open in the mainstream German press an issue we have discussed amongst English speakers in Munich since way back when that there tintinweb was just a glint in Gore's eye: Unpleasant and violent German pensioners on Munich's transport system.

One of the comments on the SZ site today was typical. A mother recalled how she had always brought up her son to give up his seat for the elderly.
One day a pensioner came up from behind her 10 year son (so he couldn't have seen her) and without warning physically shoved the boy off a seat as it was HER "priority" seat.

This one. To wit:

Questioning how the justice system deals with the issues of the migrant backgrounds of some perpetrators and victims is "ritual German bashing" now is it?

In light of a panoply of similar comments from you, yes, it is.

Funny how I live here out of my free will, most of my friends are German, I speak mostly German, my ex is German and the last time I was questioned by someone, it slipped out by mistake and I said I was German! Now if they'd only fulfill federal law in Bavaria and let me become a citizen...

But let's keep to the topic shall we.

Doesn't mean you (and others) don't engage in German-bashing. You are far from the worst offender on TT in terms of intensity, but you still do it. If you have conclusive proof, not merely your own assumptions, that the criminal justice system discriminates against non-Germans, then let's have it.