Chat_Capone
Jun 4 2008, 2:38 pm
QUOTE (lilplatinum @ Jun 4 2008, 12:08 pm)

People from the Bush administration are damaged goods, Condi doesn't bring much to the table strategically.
agreed. she needs a little time and seperation before she surfaces on such a national level.
Chat_Capone
Jun 4 2008, 3:22 pm
One neednt be a political analyst but a media background (how elections are really won) to know that Obama/Clinton close call primaries have given both of these candidates a heck of a lot more media exposure and household recognition than their would be November rival.
Forget the fact that McCain is 71 and really missed his chance when running against W in 1999 Presidential primaries and that his agenda hardly differs from either of Obama/Clinton...it's a classic popularity contest.
eurovol
Jun 4 2008, 3:43 pm
QUOTE (Jules Winnfield @ Jun 4 2008, 2:27 pm)

The importance of race has been completely overstated in this campaign blah blah blah
Are you digging your own hole or helping Conq? How about the importance of Hillary, her overstated experience and her being a woman? Camp Hillary played all the prejudicial cards and have done so since they sent that stupid report suggesting Obama was a Muslim that went to Madrassahs as a kid to FOX. Hillary did that, not the Republicans.
BadBob
Jun 4 2008, 11:38 pm
CHICAGO — A prominent fundraiser for Sen. Barack Obama and Gov. Rod Blagojevich was convicted Wednesday of fraud and money laundering after a high-profile federal trial provided an unusually detailed glimpse of the pay-to-play politics that has made Illinois infamous.
Antoin "Tony" Rezko, 52, showed no emotion as the jury delivered a mixed verdict that found him guilty of scheming with the government's star witness to get kickbacks out of money management firms wanting state business, but acquitted him of charges that included attempted extortion.
bohemka
Jun 4 2008, 11:59 pm
Who the hell cares?
What's your point with this constant posting of meaningless crap? You don't like Obama. We get it.
What's your stake in all this, anyway?
lilplatinum
Jun 5 2008, 12:30 am
I think the biggest problem with McCain is that he might get confused and not know which button is the one to push when he falls and can't get up and which one is the one that nukes Russia..
Bell the cat
Jun 5 2008, 8:02 am
QUOTE (bohemka @ Jun 4 2008, 11:59 pm)

Who the hell cares?
What's your point with this constant posting of meaningless crap? You don't like Obama. We get it.
What's your stake in all this, anyway?
he obviously feels that his man, McCain, is under direct threat from a credible Democrat candidate?
bohemka
Jun 5 2008, 9:10 am
If that's it, fine, but I haven't seen him say he supports McCain. I haven't seen him say anything, actually, that resembles an expression of an idea or thought. Just constant posting of bullshit videos and irrelevant "news" blurbs. It's like a non-stop Sean Hannity RSS feed.
I miss cendaf. He at least spoke his mind.
moctoj2
Jun 5 2008, 9:25 am
QUOTE (bohemka @ Jun 5 2008, 10:10 am)

It's like a non-stop Sean Hannity RSS feed. I miss cendaf. He at least spoke his mind.
I'm beginning to believe that cendaf and bb are the same person.
Janx Spirit
Jun 5 2008, 9:46 am
I told him (cendaft) he'd vote for a haemorrhoid ridden syphilitic elephant dressed in toga and dancing the fandango with the castanets painfully shoved up its backside, so long as it wasn't a democrat. Didn't hear from him again. Same person as BB? Hmm, BB's a bit more rabid and obtuse and lacks any real finesse. He's like a bible basher. Utterly convinced of the projectile diarrhoea he spouts.
FirstCitizen
Jun 5 2008, 10:58 am
QUOTE (Janx Spirit @ Jun 5 2008, 10:46 am)

BB's a bit more rabid and obtuse and lacks any real finesse.
And Cendaft did?
Bell the cat
Jun 5 2008, 11:04 am
QUOTE (bohemka @ Jun 5 2008, 9:10 am)

If that's it, fine, but I haven't seen him say he supports McCain. I haven't seen him say anything, actually, that resembles an expression of an idea or thought. Just constant posting of bullshit videos and irrelevant "news" blurbs. It's like a non-stop Sean Hannity RSS feed.
couple of years ago BB was a very vocal supporter of Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney. I rather doubt he has changed spots on that front.
Villager
Jun 5 2008, 9:20 pm
Interesting article in the New York Review of Books concerning John McCain
Who Is John McCain? By Michael Tomasky QUOTE
It is little remembered today that the political career of John Sidney McCain III, a career now thoroughly laundered in mythology, began with the help of several fortuities. In 1973 he returned from his five and a half years of captivity in North Vietnam [...] He was one of 591 prisoners of war repatriated early that year as a result of Operation Homecoming, and was selected by the editors of US News & World Report as the one returning POW who would be given a thirteen-page spread in the magazine to describe his ordeal (having a famous father never hurts), which brought him the same kind of attention and acclaim that had earlier, for different purposes, been showered upon the young Hillary Diane Rodham and the young John Forbes Kerry.
McCain's career is undeniably built also upon skill and shrewdness unusual among contemporary American politicians. It's not that he's been an especially accomplished legislator, [...] McCain "is infamous throughout his home state as someone who studiously avoids mixing with the little people." It was by suffering in a cell, serving as a kind of metaphor for American suffering in a war most Americans gave up on early in his confinement, but at the same time holding fast to principle under the most unimaginable circumstances, thereby redeeming some notion of American honor in a dishonorable situation, that McCain became an American hero. Liberal opponents of the war, who seldom acknowledged the repressive brutality of the North Vietnamese regime, were put on the defensive by the story of how he was tortured.
Even so, attaining icon status took a while. He first made national headlines as a senator in the late 1980s, as part of the Keating Five, a group of senators who had lobbied in defense of a failing savings-and-loan company, owned by Charles Keating, that was under investigation during the S&L scandals.
His speech on Tuesday just before Hillary and Obama's was a dud, the cynical smiles looked forced, he is old and tired.
The drawn-out democratic race was a big plus for Obama, otherwise many in the US would not even know who he is, now they care and he has become a media darling just by being a natural. The president's main job is PR anyway, Obama will be fine.
eurovol
Jun 5 2008, 9:29 pm
Why I was for Obama all along!
Obama keeps Dean as Chair of the DNC! Very important move or should I say non-move.
Obama stops the DNC from collecting money from lobbyists and PACs. Again, a move that is more than cool with me.
Obama takes Lieberman aside by the hand and presses him on his less than "Democratic" demeanor. This is the ultimate "YEAH BABY!"
I am happy today!
Villager
Jun 5 2008, 9:33 pm
QUOTE (eurovol @ Jun 5 2008, 10:29 pm)

Obama stops the DNC from collecting money from lobbyists and PACs.
what? where? give me a break, this is not going to happen, how do you fund a campaign?
maybe Obama has a lot of groupies and internet-based fan club, but most other politicians are boring
how is this gonna work without lobbyists???
eurovol
Jun 5 2008, 9:42 pm
What? Where?
Read the News or watch CNN dude!
Conquistador
Jun 5 2008, 9:49 pm
Eurovol has the amazing knack for insulting any person who might possibly be willing to do business with him- it's unbelievable.
Obama's promises on lobbyists are less than meets the eye, plus it's not as if he is allergic to the demands of special interest groups and their members' cash.
Neither Obama nor McCain is offering anything new and neither is likely to fix any festering problems. The choice of voting for one or the other is a matter of risk management rather than choosing a silver bullet.
Villager
Jun 5 2008, 9:54 pm
I do not perceive Eurovol's comments as insults...I am not Conq!
but the story behind Obama and lobbyists is funny, a line which will draw applause in front of an uninformed audience, nothing more
try this article:
PACs and lobbyists aided Obama's rise from the Boston Globe
QUOTE
In Obama's eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns -- $296,000 of $461,000 -- came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.
Obama's US Senate campaign committee, starting with his successful run in 2004, has collected $128,000 from lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit organization that tracks money in politics. His $1.3 million from PACs represents 8 percent of what he has raised overall. Clinton's Senate committee, by comparison, has raised $3 million from PACs, 4 percent of her total amount raised, the group said.
In addition, Obama's own federal PAC, Hopefund, took in $115,000 from 56 PACs in the 2005-2006 election cycle out of $4.4 million the PAC raised, according to CQ MoneyLine, which collects Federal Election Commission data.
Obama is likeable enough, but he is not immune to talking nonsense
Bell the cat
Jun 5 2008, 9:57 pm
QUOTE (Conquistador @ Jun 5 2008, 9:49 pm)

Neither Obama nor McCain is offering anything new and neither is likely to fix any festering problems. The choice of voting for one or the other is a matter of risk management rather than choosing a silver bullet.
As Spiegel noted, Obama offers on foreign policy what Europe has been crying out for years for while McCain just offers continuation of the failed imperial policies of Bush. And most of the UK press that I have been reading comes to the same conclusion. Lets hope the US public see it the same way.
Villager
Jun 5 2008, 10:03 pm
QUOTE (Conquistador @ Jun 5 2008, 10:49 pm)

Neither Obama nor McCain is offering anything new and neither is likely to fix any festering problems.
Another article in the New York Review of Books (my favourite rag for a lifetime now)
Economics: Which Way for Obama?by John Cassidy
QUOTE
The bursting of the housing bubble and the associated credit crunch has so far wiped out about $3 trillion of wealth—nobody knows the exact amount—caused havoc in the financial markets [...]
John McCain, for all his protestations that economics is not his strong point, has put forward a coherent, if somewhat heartless, case for doing nothing, or very little, anyway. Echoing the arguments that Andrew Mellon, Friedrich Hayek, and other enthusiasts of the free market espoused [...]
Hillary Clinton, after initially equivocating, has emerged as the would-be heir to FDR and John Maynard Keynes. In addition to imposing a ninety-day moratorium on foreclosures and a five-year freeze on certain adjustable mortgage rates, she would have the federal government buy up an undetermined number of troubled home loans, enabling lenders to convert them to more affordable deals and putting a floor under the housing market. [...]
Should Obama win the nomination, political considerations may well force upon him a more interventionist position, but his first inclination is to seek a path between big government and laissez-faire, a trait that reflects his age—he was born in 1961—and the intellectual milieu he emerged from.
the rest of the article describe Behavioural Economics and how this is related to Obama's proposals, now we know where he is coming from.
eurovol
Jun 5 2008, 10:21 pm
QUOTE (Conquistador @ Jun 5 2008, 10:49 pm)

Eurovol has the amazing knack for insulting any person who might possibly be willing to do business with him- it's unbelievable.
QUOTE (Villager @ Jun 5 2008, 10:54 pm)

I do not perceive Eurovol's comments as insults...I am not Conq!
Classic, pure and simple.
Villager
Jun 5 2008, 10:31 pm
more on Obama and lobbyists:
Obama’s K Street project Obama's campaign people are in regular touch with major lobbyists and take contributions from lobbyists' wives
Obama’s Lobbyist Connection Axelrod is basically a former lobbyist for Exelon corp.
I have friends in DC who work as lobbyists, so I see nothing really new here. It is easy to rail against "lobbyists" when you have no idea how the system works. Sure, they can try to rein in the influence of big corporations, but lobbys and PAC are essential to any free market democracy, otherwise lawmakers would be unable to propose new legislation. What? They should just talk to the man on the street?
Villager
Jun 5 2008, 11:02 pm
Will Obama choose Jim Webb as veep?

looks a bit like a cross between Tim Robbins and John Goodman
his bio looks good for a fit with Obama
Bell the cat
Jun 6 2008, 6:12 am
QUOTE (Villager @ Jun 5 2008, 10:31 pm)

I have friends in DC who work as lobbyists, so I see nothing really new here. It is easy to rail against "lobbyists" when you have no idea how the system works. Sure, they can try to rein in the influence of big corporations, but lobbys and PAC are essential to any free market democracy, otherwise lawmakers would be unable to propose new legislation. What? They should just talk to the man on the street?
look there is a very big difference between lobbyists talking to politicians and lobbyists channeling large campaign contributions to candidates to ensure special favours once in office. Obama's decision to end lobby-generated campaign funding brings the US into line with regulations most reasonable democracies adhere to already.
But as a piece of political manoevering it is a masterstroke on Obama's part as it paints MCain into a very uncomfortable corner as he cannot afford to follow suit and will therefore be portrayed (rightly or wrongly) as a lobby group puppet from now on.
Obama and Clinton met privately yesterday. Let us hope he doesn't take her as his running mate.
I heard on NPR yesterday that Qbama is seriously looking for a female running mate. That makes good sense, as he would keep the female vote, and Clinton, as we all know, is despised by most Republicans.
Two women tipped as Obama running mates, but not ClintonQUOTE
TOPEKA, Kansas - There is increasing chatter surrounding two rising Democratic stars - both of them female, both of them governors, neither of them Hillary Rodham Clinton.
They are Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius and Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano, two potential running mates who could help Barack Obama woo female voters
Bell the cat
Jun 6 2008, 8:27 am
Kathleen Sibelius sounds pretty superb actually
lilplatinum
Jun 6 2008, 8:55 am
QUOTE (PES @ Jun 6 2008, 7:57 am)

Obama and Clinton met privately yesterday. Let us hope he doesn't take her as his running mate.
I just hope her idea of private time with the opposite sex is different than her husbands! ( why is it I can't help but picture blazing saddles: "is it true what they say? its true, its true")
Lorelei
Jun 6 2008, 9:04 am
Wonder what kind of advisors Obama has behind him. His foreign policy advisor (a woman who resembled Condoleeza Rice) was on Wolf Blitzer's CNN discussion programme a few weeks ago, debating foreign policy and especially policy on Iran with James Rubin, who was representing the Clinton camp. She didn't seem to be able to keep up with the arguments and Rubin trampled all over her. It was uncomfortable to watch.
Conquistador
Jun 6 2008, 7:56 pm
QUOTE (Bell the cat @ Jun 5 2008, 10:57 pm)

As Spiegel noted, Obama offers on foreign policy what Europe has been crying out for years for while McCain just offers continuation of the failed imperial policies of Bush. And most of the UK press that I have been reading comes to the same conclusion. Lets hope the US public see it the same way.
Events have a way of shaping presidents' foreign policy that cannot be foreseen during a presidential campaign. Also, as I have pointed out before, trade issues are a major irritant in US/EU relations, and Obama's protectionism cannot be music to European ears. Obama's flip-flopping on direct meetings with anti-US dictators and thugs is an indication his foreign-policy judgement is not so wondrous and may be re-calibrated a few times. Once they reach the Oval Office, US Presidents don't want to have to ask the rest of the world for permission to do everything- even ostensibly UN-loving Bill Clinton didn't have a problem with bombing Serbs in 1995 and 1999 and lobbing some missiles at Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998 without approval from the Security Council. But the left, including those in the Fourth Estate, can always dream...
Expect Obama to be more interested than previous US Presidents in military intervention in Africa.
QUOTE (Bell the cat @ Jun 6 2008, 7:12 am)

look there is a very big difference between lobbyists talking to politicians and lobbyists channeling large campaign contributions to candidates to ensure special favours once in office. Obama's decision to end lobby-generated campaign funding brings the US into line with regulations most reasonable democracies adhere to already.
But as a piece of political manoevering it is a masterstroke on Obama's part as it paints MCain into a very uncomfortable corner as he cannot afford to follow suit and will therefore be portrayed (rightly or wrongly) as a lobby group puppet from now on.
This just is not a salient issue to most voters, who focus on things like economic conditions. It's really more an ode to his liberal base, and if you really want to get down to it, campaign finance reform has long been an issued owned by McCain. Lobbying comes in many forms, and Obama has shown himself to be smitten with the demands of those lobbying from the left, e.g., unions and trial lawyers.
Bell the cat
Jun 7 2008, 7:28 am
QUOTE (Conquistador @ Jun 6 2008, 7:56 pm)

Events have a way of shaping presidents' foreign policy that cannot be foreseen during a presidential campaign.
funny, the Bush plan was worked out years before and conveniently latched onto events as they came along. McCain promises much of the same with commitments to continuing in Iraq and attacking Iran and very little substantive on the ME. Obama by contrasts makes no promises on foreign action other than opening dialog on all fronts and taking Israel and the ME mess seriously at long last - something that the EU has been pushing for for years.
QUOTE (Conquistador @ Jun 6 2008, 7:56 pm)

Also, as I have pointed out before, trade issues are a major irritant in US/EU relations, and Obama's protectionism cannot be music to European ears.
indeed trade wars have been an issue particularly where US subsidies are ruled illegitimate by the WTO. I wonder how Obama's eschewing of lobbyist contributions for his campaign will affect his view on trade subsidies?
QUOTE (Conquistador @ Jun 6 2008, 7:56 pm)

Obama's flip-flopping on direct meetings with anti-US dictators and thugs is an indication his foreign-policy judgement is not so wondrous and may be re-calibrated a few times.
I would have said that open dialogue with Syria, Iran, Israel and Palestine would be absolutely crucial to world peace. Strange how you seem to think that is a 'misjudgement"
QUOTE (Conquistador @ Jun 6 2008, 7:56 pm)

Once they reach the Oval Office, US Presidents don't want to have to ask the rest of the world for permission to do everything- even ostensibly UN-loving Bill Clinton didn't have a problem with bombing Serbs in 1995
actually he did. There was a UN mandate but most of the world including the US was unwilling to act. If it had not been for persistent diplomacy from Tony Blair and the British government Clinton would never have joined the UK in Kosovo and the Serbs would have been joined by the Russians to prevent any action being taken at all.
TexMunich
Jun 7 2008, 10:47 am
QUOTE (Bell the cat @ Jun 7 2008, 8:28 am)

Obama by contrasts makes no promises on foreign action other than opening dialog on all fronts and taking Israel and the ME mess seriously at long last - something that the EU has been pushing for for years.
Great. More dialog, that's the EU euphemism for leadership. Just what we need more meetings.
MonksTown
Jun 7 2008, 10:57 am
Indeed. The USA could force through a fair deal quite quickly.
By turning Israel's money tap off.
Owain Glyndwr
Jun 7 2008, 10:59 am
yes, because as well all know if the Palestinians see that Israel is weak they'll just lay down their arms and offer to kiss and make up.
What utter toss, MT.
MonksTown
Jun 7 2008, 11:25 am
Bit determnist there OG. The Intafada didn't happen becasue Palestinians are "bad" people but for other, more complex, reasons.
Obama as US Pesident might well be one of the best chances to move forward on the issue that we have seen for a long time.
But before all you tolerant fair minded, open, worldly, cuddly residents of Europe get too excited; remember he hasn't been elected yet.
Bell the cat
Jun 7 2008, 11:50 am
by persuading the US to stop funding the IRA through Noraid, it was one part of bringing them to the table to find a viable solution.
However, Israel is a different case. Money from the USA does not just allow Israel to buy weapons, it is also fundamental to the very existance of Israel. Without it, the state would implode.
Rather than starve Israel of funds, the Middle East needs the kind of proactive negotiating from the USA that, uniquely among recent US presidencies, the Bush regime has completely neglected. McCain shows no inclination to change that but Obama has emphatically indicated that under him the US will re-engage in the region and I for one think that would be a bloody good thing.
Sanwald
Jun 7 2008, 11:51 am
QUOTE (TexMunich @ Jun 7 2008, 11:47 am)

Great. More dialog, that's the EU euphemism for leadership. Just what we need more meetings.
I think you're close, but I'd say Dialog is the EU euphamism for ACTION. It allows them to sleep well thinking they're doing something, without actually doing anything.
Janx Spirit
Jun 7 2008, 11:59 am
QUOTE (Bell the cat @ Jun 7 2008, 12:50 pm)

by persuading the US to stop funding the IRA through Noraid, it was one part of bringing them to the table to find a viable solution.
However, Israel is a different case. Money from the USA does not just allow Israel to buy weapons, it is also fundamental to the very existance of Israel. Without it, the state would implode.
Rather than starve Israel of funds, the Middle East needs the kind of proactive negotiating from the USA that, uniquely among recent US presidencies, the Bush regime has completely neglected. McCain shows no inclination to change that but Obama has emphatically indicated that under him the US will re-engage in the region and I for one think that would be a bloody good thing.
The towering arrogance of the GOP in the face the changing climate of world politics is breathtaking. It reminds me of old Bavarian right wingers at a Burschenschaft and Schützenverein meeting
Villager
Jun 7 2008, 12:01 pm
QUOTE (Bell the cat @ Jun 6 2008, 7:12 am)

look there is a very big difference between lobbyists talking to politicians and lobbyists channeling large campaign contributions to candidates to ensure special favours once in office. Obama's decision to end lobby-generated campaign funding brings the US into line with regulations most reasonable democracies adhere to already.
there is a difference between political objectives, for example reducing CO² production, and the practical problem of how to achieve that objective. Lobbyists represent important business interests that should have some say in how legislation is drafted, otherwise you get a lot of well-meaning nonsense that cannot be implemented, the Kyoto accords being a glaring example. The US system is based on local representation, the legislators represent specific districts rather than grand ideological parties. the distribution of power is quite different under such a system. Lobbyists and PACs fill the gap by representing regional and national concerns.
As to the US's relation with the Israel-Palestinian conflict, the basic issue is that no one outside the region really gains much by resolving the issue. Like with the Kurds, it is a local problem that is simply an irritation to other countries.
Bell the cat
Jun 7 2008, 12:04 pm
QUOTE (Sanwald @ Jun 7 2008, 11:51 am)

I think you're close, but I'd say Dialog is the EU euphamism for ACTION. It allows them to sleep well thinking they're doing something, without actually doing anything.
and that is the kind of stupid response typical of the US right.
Answer me this: How did the UK end thirty years of terrorist war in Northern Ireland if not through Dialog?
And how did the Cold War end, if not through Dialog?
Seems to me that over and over again the USA leaps into the world with guns ablazin (Viet Nam, Iraq) without any thought for the aftermath.
Military action is sometimes worthwhile - for example Kosovo, Afghanistan and Siera Leone. But only when carefully planned with preparation for the aftermath. The tragedy of recent years is that the invasion of Afghanistan could have been a towering success if the USA had listened to the EU and not diverted most of its resources to an entirely illegitimate imperial war in Iraq instead.
Jules Winnfield
Jun 7 2008, 12:08 pm
The IRA and the Middle East are completely incomparable, the former never had stated objectives which included the eradication of another country.
I'm glad to see this is rightfully going off-topic, after all, why should we even bother discussing the inevitable election of one of the greatest statesman in world history...
Sanwald
Jun 7 2008, 12:15 pm
I believe the UK could have ended the problems in Northern Ireland a lot sooner had they simply packed up and gone back to their own island. Seems to be the solution that's popular with pacifists, liberals, and Europeans today.
MonksTown
Jun 7 2008, 12:17 pm
QUOTE (Bell the cat @ Jun 7 2008, 1:04 pm)

And how did the Cold War end, if not through Dialog?
Reagan outspent what the Russians could afford and a section of the middle to ruling classes in Eastern Europe realised
their class interests could be etter served under western free market capitalism as opposed to eastern state capitalism.
@ HW, be careful with phrases like "inevitable".
Bush got "elected" twice.
BattalionBoy
Jun 7 2008, 12:17 pm
The violence in Northern Ireland ended when the Americans (American Irish) stopped funding it. The Oklahoma bombing brought home to America the reality of it. Gerry Adams was touring the US fund raising when the Oklahoma bomb went off – he had to leave the country and curtail his visit abruptly when people on radio shows were asking him if the money was for the same sort of thing.
The cold war ended because the Soviet Union went bankrupt trying to keep pace with the US on the arms buildup.
Bell the cat
Jun 7 2008, 12:18 pm
QUOTE (Villager @ Jun 7 2008, 12:01 pm)

the Kyoto accords being a glaring example.
care to explain that? Europe managed to implement Kyoto but the US has failed again and again to do anything, largely it would seem, through collosal bribes from the oil magnates to congresspeople and the presidency itself.
Jules Winnfield
Jun 7 2008, 12:23 pm
The hoopla over Kyoto is another example of typically short-sighted EU diplomacy: bash the US because it's easy, it's what the people want and they really aren't going anywhere, while ignoring juggernauts like the Chinese government, because they really are hard-nosed assholes who don't give a shit what anyone else thinks.
MonksTown
Jun 7 2008, 12:28 pm
There has to be recognition of China's growing thirst for oil and the implications thereof and while not yet a tablod topic, it is far from unknown.
But China doesn't let the USA of the hook.
American needs to get its oil consumption down. Becasue of climate change, becasue of the implications of an oil driven American foreign policy in the Middle East and, at the end of the day, becasuse of the dependency threat it puts the USA itself in. Bush and the neo libs and hawks might have buried their heads unde the (Iraqi) sand but sooner or later, change has to come.
BattalionBoy
Jun 7 2008, 12:32 pm
China's thirst for oil that feed's their industry that has the main function of supplying goods to the USA.
MonksTown
Jun 7 2008, 12:40 pm
And the level of investment that hina has in the US economy...China could bankrupt the place tomorrow if it so chose.
Jules Winnfield
Jun 7 2008, 12:49 pm
QUOTE (BattalionBoy @ Jun 7 2008, 1:32 pm)

China's thirst for oil that feed's their industry that has the main function of supplying goods to the USA.
The Chinese supply everyone, and actually, the goods that they manufacture for next to nothing and flood the EU with are having devastating effects economically on SMBs in Europe (shoes and furniture are the ones that have been in the news a lot lately). China is everyone's problem.
DrivinWest
Jun 7 2008, 12:53 pm
QUOTE (Jules Winnfield @ Jun 7 2008, 1:23 pm)

The hoopla over Kyoto is another example of typically short-sighted EU diplomacy: bash the US because it's easy, it's what the people want and they really aren't going anywhere, while ignoring juggernauts like the Chinese government, because they really are hard-nosed assholes who don't give a shit what anyone else thinks.
Agreed. Food for thought:
China is the world's #1 CO2 emitter overallAustralia is the world's #1 CO2 emitter per capitaCanada will not meet its Kyoto goalsWhile the US hasn't ratified Kyoto at the federal level, many
individual states have capped emissions and set goals which outpace Kyoto.
While most nations had a net increase in CO2 emissions between 2000 and 2006, the
US had a 3% drop.
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