U.S. Presidential Election 2008

who ever they are, they should expect criticism...

'specially if they are in some kinda celebrity status

As much as I dislike old man mccain, posts like Kat's above make me shudder at how much of a messiah Obama has become. The comedown when he is just another politician is gonna suck, and they don't make methadone clinics for that kind of withdrawal.

The New York Times has reported that Governer Palin made a statement that her teenager daughter is five months pregnant. No big deal really, that happens all the time. It does boggle the mind though that this woman opposes sex education or providing teenagers with birth control.

Still, this is her private life. The only thing that concerns me is whether or not the woman is a hypocrite and a liar. Her daughter is only 5 months pregnant? In these pictures taken last week at a rally, she looks like she's in the last trimester of pregnancy.

Maybe I just don't know what a woman who is 5 months along looks like but the whole Palin as VP pick has made this election feel even more like a bad made-for-tv movie.

Again, I never said that he was not good, he's charismatic, gives good speeches, and people like him. The United Staes will not end or cease being a great country if he's elected. He would be a good President.

He does run a good campaign, although I think it's beginning to falter, but running a campaign is more about management, not leadership. There is a difference. It is clear to me that he is a much better person, and more principled than many of his supporters.

So, which one of these 2 blokes is a hawk or a dove or whatever you lot say. Also, am I right in thinking that "dove" is a euphanism for "complete pussy"?

Oh, shove it lilplatinum. I am quite aware of Obama's faults and I have already disagreed strongly with him a few times, but he's still the best politician we've been offered this century and McCain is just plain pathetic. Obama will let us down too, but not nearly as devastatingly as McCain certainly will.

do you fear and mistrust authority?

just kinda wondering where this fear comes from...

i, for one, because of the way i was raised, has a bit of fear and respect for people in authority. but when i learn that they are completely incompetent, then i kinda turn on them. its always been like that. growing up going to the mormon church, in the military (some really, really shitty leaders there!), and in the work place (particularly the office environment)...

i dont see him as some kinda messiah. i already gathered that hes not really a religious man, per-se. but i really do enjoy his positive attitude. thats what i like about him.

i saw him on tv once a few years back and the first thing that came to mind was, "that guy is going places"...

And McCain is heading where? 6 ft under? snicker. sorry, I couldn't help myself. forgive me.

now, this might seem really harsh because i'll find out if i'm any better when my own daughter starts getting "the itch"...

but pregnant teenage daughter stinks of irresponsible mother who is only out for her own best-interests to me.

if someone is offended by that, i apologize but i'm not taking it back...

thats just the nature of politics and politicians...

its just not possible to do all the things you want to do. specially when you have so many old-school politicians looking out for themselves first.

7 houses and a debt more than i make in three years would make me worry!

he hasn't gone anywhere last i checked...

the tit

I would say that a pregnant teenage daughter or a teenage son expecting a child stinks of fundamentalist, or just plain stupid, parents who fail to properly educate their children and refuse to accept reality: Teens have sex, the earth is round, the earth was not created in seven days and global warming is not an act of god to heat things up before the final rapture.

funny... you joined this forum on my 18-year wedding anniversary

just thought i'd point that out

You poor bastard. McCain was only tortured for 5.

So what are Biden and Palin's added values to their respective tickets?

Biden is a choice who appeals to your standard Democratic voter, however it's the same kind who would've voted for Obama anyway. Basically, Biden consolidates Obama's ticket, however he doesn't pull in any other voters.

The choice of Palin, apart from having taken the wind of out the Democratic sails after a perfect convention, appeals to a potpourri of voters:

Those "bitter" people "clinging to guns and religion", social and anti-Washington conservatives, working mothers who see another woman having to balance her job and family obligations...

Though vice-presidential nominations are, as everyone knows, not considered decisive, McCain has managed to broaden his appeal, something which Obama has not been able to do. This is a major accomplishment.

I think she is too conservative for her vagina to bring any people who weren't going to vote Republican to the party, but I could be wrong. Its not like the hillbilly rednecks who thought mccain was too liberal were really going to vote for Obama no matter whom he chose.

She doesn't have mass appeal to middle of the road voters, who are whom they need to convince.

She's complementary though. Middle of the road voters is where McCain steps in.

the way i see it, Obama is such a strong frontman, Biden wont hardly even be seen anyways...

Those "bitter" people "clinging to guns and religion" of which you speak, are the same people who dont want a woman or a black or a jew or a hispanic in office...

as for me? i dont care as long as they're the best person, place or thing for the job.

again, just my opinion

But she appeals to the right wingers who had no choice but to vote mccain, I suppose you could argue she will encourage some right wingers to get out who would otherwise have abstained.

I think that may be a good assessment.

Obama was considered the most liberal Senator, and Biden was the...wait for it...3rd most liberal. Doesn't really broaden the ticket.

*is thoroughly, thoroughly skeptical*

I'm still trying to figure out why Liberal=Bad or Conservative=Bad
Just leave it like it is
Conservative and Liberal

dont look for a black and white answer to any of it and youll have more time for other things youd rather be doing with your spare time

labels are just a big waste of time and energy

bo-yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

I don't think one or the other is bad. Most normal people have a little of both in their belief system and accept both. Actually the extremes at both end can be be described as lunatic.

Has this whole thread been people stating the obvious or should I bother reading through it a bit?

yeah, the non-controversials have commandeered the thread...

For the record, what sgt.schmitty is saying here is NOT the same as what gemini, myself, and others have been saying. I disagree with you, SS.

Sarah Palin was brought on to the ticket to give it some conservative zing. So it's fair for the public to view her candidacy through the same social-conservative lens. Conservative and family-values are pretty much the same thing. It's then fair to say that through the family-values lens, Palin is lacking given the many things going on in her life right now. That's focusing the lens a bit more sharply than the McCain camp wants you to do.

Here's another thing. It's been stated in the press that the announcement about Bristol's pregnancy was made to dispel rumors about Bristol being Trig's mom. So, instead of just offering Trig's birth certificate and a statement from the attending physician at the birth as definitive proof, they bring out their 17-year-old daughter and point out that since she's 5 months pregnant now, she can't be 4-month-old Trig's mother.

Is that the most sensitive way to handle this? They could have left Bristol out of it entirely, but that's not what they chose to do. They chose to parade her around on the Excel Energy stage, and then say her pregnancy is private business and everybody can leave both issues around now. Sorry, NOT good parenting.

good point! what can i say, i'm just a gulible sod like your stereo-typical 'merican...

nevertheless...

Well, maybe they thought they'd just get it all out in the open now. I'm sure they initially thought her pregnancy could be kept quiet for a little longer, but then that dumbshit rumor started gaining momentum. It may have seemed to be a way to get both things out with one statement.

I really feel sorry for Bristol Palin. At 17, her life is ruined, and it's all over the news. You can't feel her parents put her first in this.

How is her life ruined? She's pregnant that's all.

Dooming your minor child to a lower-middle-class life at best (anyone here try to attend college as a full time mother?) to support your own political agenda strikes me as the most callous thing I can imagine ... especially as the potential future Second Son-In-Law doesn't look like he's any great shakes himself. Best lines from his MyFace page: "I'm a f---in' redneck" and "I don't want kids."

I never thought I'd be wishing for a return to political kids like Julie Nixon-Eisenhower, but I'd take her in a second over what we're seeing now.

This used to be a respectable party!

yeah, her life for the next couple of months will be marketed and she'll make some money...

she'll become the teenage mom posterchild...

'sides that, i suppose her family is pretty comfortable anyways...

that is a ridiculous statement. I doubt her life is "ruined". It will be a challenge and she will miss out on a lot on her teenage year experiences, but I know a number of teenage moms, and "ruined" they are not.

She's going to have to be a mother at 17, marry a redneck who's facebook page states he doesn't want kids, and the whole world is watching her humiliation. Get real. She's still a kid, but will no longer be able to act like one.

If she has a sudden miscarriage right around election time, then break out the tinfoil hats and put on another server for djgrazy.

She's a legal adult in less than a year. Besides, getting knocked up by a Redneck is about par for the course for a kid being raised in Alaska - considering where some of my old classmates from my brief stay in alaska high school ended up in life, she should consider herself lucky.

Actually it should be considered child abuse to raise a kid there

Trust me, even the teenage pregnancies that ended up in reasonably non-ruined lives that I know ended up taking 10 years to get through college part-time whilst working crap jobs ... not an experience you want anyone else to repeat.

i never went to college, does that mean my life is ruined too?

Most of the girls I knew who got preggers in HS weren't exactly college material to begin with.

I really don't care if Bristol Palin is pregnant.

I'm more interested that the Republican ticket be stronger than it is with Palin on it. I'm not going to vote for him in any case, but many people will. Even liberals need to be concerned that McCain just might win here, and it's irresponsible for him to have Palin as VP, for so many, many, many reasons.

Since Friday, has anyone been able to dig up even one reason that Palin is a good choice? No, the press hasn't, and the McCain camp is still being defensive about the whole thing.

McCain showed exceedingly poor judgment, and we've had nothing but a hurricane of proof since Friday about what really poor judgment it is. The Bristol pregnancy is such a great excuse for Palin to go home and groom her resume for a few more years and "spend more time with her family", and for McCain to appoint someone with some qualifications.

NOTE: I am NOT advocating she go back to the proverbial kitchen! She has quite a respectable job as governor of Alaska and she can keep it, for all I care.

WHY don't they all TAKE this chance, for god's sake?

Do not get me wrong, I wouldn't wish the experience on any teen, it will be very difficult, but that does not mean her "life is ruined". Especially if her family steps up to the plate.

However, I really hope, for political expediency, the parents are not essentially forcing this marriage.

Of course not ... but statistically, it's usually a lifetime pay cut, and definately limits one's job options.

It's doubtless better parenting to encourage your kids to go for it rather than decide later that it would have been nice to have tried ... especially if you're, say, Vice President of the United States of America.

FFS, the back of the guy's (red) neck probably still has the rings where the shotgun was pressed against it!

She will be responsible for a baby 24 hours a day while her friends will party, travel the world and pursue their careers. Unless she has a network of other very young mothers around her she will feel extremely lonely. Most of her friends will have children when her child has almost grown up. Without mental support from people of her own age group it will be even harder for her to come up with the enormous amount of strength it takes to raise a child. I don't think being pregnant necessarily ruins people's lives but at 17 this is a huge load for anyone.

Most of the girls who get preggers in HS are allowed to get an abortion. Parenting is such a huge responsibility. It's hard enough when you're 30 and established, and it doesn't look like Grandma is going to have time to step in.

you're one hell of a strategist...

its almost *gulp* frightening!

Cinzia, why should any woman, anywhere on Earth, feel it necessary to prove her child is her own, just because a couple of kooks find a platform on the internet and some gullible knuckle-draggers to believe their conspiracy theory? How would you feel if some weirdos started questioning the maternity of your kid?