U.S. Presidential Election 2008

She is not alone in the Senate. DUH!

Get over yourself already! I bashed Hillary not because she was A she, but because she was she!

Look, eurovol, I am happy that you think Hillary is competent enough to run half of one branch of government. The sexist bashing thing was not aimed at you, but I did not make that at all clear.

Note the photos of Palin already posted. How many photos of Joe Biden were posted on this thread last week?

Everyone knows what Joe looks like, Sarah is a unknown commodity. Don't look for sexism where it ain't.

Answer: two, posted immediately

Besides, the photos are posted because she was a beauty pageant contested... she made her looks an issue, so it is relevant.

...

Oh, by the way, happy birthday, John McCain! He's 72 today.

ummm... Would that be a windfall profits tax?

And he got himself a beauty queen all wrapped up, minus the bow.

A Gender does not a Hillary make.

Nice choice, but hardly a deal breaker, I've already read her issues.

I'm going to be very interested in watching the general discourse on this board and in the press at large. For Palin's sake, I hope she doesn't get it as bad as Hillary did. But I'm already reading cries of "Rabenmutter," and from liberals no less.

I don't get it. What part of "presiding over a tax increase on oil company profits" is not a windfall profits tax? Maybe one or both of these pillars of truth (yahoo and wikipedia) are incorrect.

There will be sexist things said, of course, especially on this board, because much of us say things to get a reaction. But was it a sexist appointment? Again, this is coming from wikipedia, so it means not much, but this is one of the three items that describes her budget history as governor:


This was in 2007. We're talking about a gravel road. An 11-mile gravel road. It's a fairly significant item on her resume.

I think she may have a great future in politics. I like her clean-out-corruption stance (which, admittedly, may only work so easily in Alaska at this point). But is she really the Republicans' #2? Really?

I'd love to hear McCain's other reasons for selecting her, because the "grit" and other stuff he was talking about earlier had to be awkwardly read off a cue card.

I agree. I believe the gloves are off now and the real mud slinging will begin....

Animal advocates are largely anti-Palin for her stance on many wildlife issues- She has allowed the continued aerial run and shoot (where helicopters chase wolves to exhaustion so they can sharp shooters can shoot them) behind the false pretense that wolves are killing too many moose & caribou and that because of that, there aren't enough for subsistance hunters (people who hunt for the food they eat and live mainly on that food).

That's not the truth and many subsistance hunters are outraged at the practice. Yes, wolves kill moose and caribou, their main food source, but sport hunters typically do more damage to the environment and the subsistance hunters than wolves (and other predators). Wolves kill to survive, hunters kill for sport and money.

Palin's cabinet in Alaska is filled with sport hunters.

Oh, and BTW...she's having moose killed in the anchorage area because there are too many becaus she says they are getting into trouble with humans who are encroaching on their habitat. Apparently, she can spend money on propeganda used to confuse the voters of Alaska earlier this week into voting incorrectly for a measure that would have stopped the aerial gunning, but she won't spend the money to relocate the moose into areas where they'd be available for subsistance hunters.

Hillary did not get it "bad". In fact, there is evidence she even set some of it up to get the sympathy vote (the iron my shirt guys were plants). Don't fall for the sexist hype! Jeez!

mere ...
That is new, but it falls in line with Palin also vetoing the placement of polar bears on the entangered species list. Under suspect, is the greater political issue that it would interfere with the interests and the money flow of Big Oil.

Reminds me of the Northern Spotted Owl debate that was opposed by the Loggers and Logging companies ... the owls making their nests in the trees they wanted to tear down was a problem for them.

Palin veto of placing Polar Bears: In her own words


Mind you, Palin's husband works for BP, which does offshore drilling in Alaska. So one can see how the McCain's will amass their fortune in beer and the Palin's in oil.

Another Hillary Supporter That Tells it Like It is McCain! A taste...

I'd guess her support for drilling in Alaska has to do with the increased annual rebate checks for Alaskan citizens that would come as a result. Standard in those parts. Unfortunately, she hasn't thought past Alaska yet.

Thanks for pointing out that Polar Bear article. I had never heard of Palin. Nice to see someone actually do what a law is intended to do and not screw it around to fit their hidden agenda.

There are other sources (renewable ones) to get energy- there isn't a renewable or other sources to get an animal back after it is extinct.

What the law is intending to do is to prevent environmental abuses by Corporate big riggers.
But who cares about that when the GOP is lining their pockets with green backs...

Hey, Sanwald, Paul Krugman over at the New York Times has you pegged today.

From Palin's Article
1.


2.


The law was the Endangered Species Act not ".... to prevent environmental abuses by Corporate big riggers.
But who cares about that when the GOP is lining their pockets with green backs..."

Um, seth ... were it not for the LAW, Corporations would have the freedom to deplete North America clean of it's natural resources. Not to mention wipe out the animals and the eco-systems that depend on that particular habitat. So yes, the LAW is meant to do just that. If enough in-depth studies conclude that a species has in fact rebounded (be it human intervention or natural selection) then it requires another lenthy process to remove an animal from the list. Generally speaking thou, once on the list, always on.

I can pull up a dozen or so environmental studies that do in fact claim that the species is LESS WELL OFF now than a few years ago.

Think of it as a courtroom. The defense has their experts, the plantiff has their experts. In this case, I believe, the law was applied correctly.

I question the political motivations of vetoing the measure, you don't have to.

You know you lose your street cred when you say only one side does this sort of thing?


Sort of. But the difference is that Alaska is taking a cut of the action from oil pumped out of Alaskan ground. That's a bit different from general proposals for windfall taxes which aren't specific to the geographical source of the oil. Alaska's not the only State with such tax schemes.


I'm not sure if you're kidding or not. Her husband is the prototypical blue collar Joe. Working oil fields and doing commercial fishing in the off-season is about as hard of work as you're going to find. I doubt if he's made a fortune from manual labor.

Anyway, just my $0.02. I don't see any real stroke of genius in picking Palin. They're hoping to throw some kind of bone to evangelicals and Palin has some credentials there. Maybe they're desperately hoping to pick up some kneejerk vote-your-ovaries female voters who would have gone for Hillary. Likewise they seem to want some of Hillary's lunch pail voters and that is where I think Palin's family comes in. Her husband is apparently a lifelong UNION member (on the GOP ticket?) and a champion snowmobile racer.

That's the image they want to project, the rugged individualist of American lore which I suppose they'd like to use to dampen the Obama's who are looking more and more like a 21st century Ebony Camelot, all glitz, glamour, and chic. I don't think it'll work though. I heard a minute of her speech and she's kind of anaemic at the podium. She's all of a first term governor in a tiny State population-wise and the DEMs will likely skewer her for lack of any meaningful beltway experience. I just feel like McCain picked her on a spreadsheet full of demographic wishes and not on meaningful qualifications.

Still think she's kinda cute.

On Edit: Is anyone else kind of unsettled by the thought of this gal having her finger on the button when, nine years ago, she was fighting to get elected as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (pop 8,000). And I thought Obama came out of nowhere.

Palin's husband, Todd Palin, is a production operator for BP on Alaska's North Slope.
It's the close ties to big Oil that cement McCain. Aside for having Palin as his VP .. any closer they'd be married!


I'm sure that thought made a stop in McCain's mind as well.

Jeez KK, that sounds a bit delusional. My impression is that multi-term Senators who seek contacts in the oil industry, generally do it at the boardroom level and not with the guy in dirty boots and coveralls who turns the pumps on and off. You mileage may differ.

So she's clearly controlled by British petroleum interests? The plot thickens!

Where's djgrazy when we need him!?

DanHessen

First of all ... You need to get some perspective as well as a sense of humor, both of which you are sorely lacking from your stupid ass post.

Recognize that since the GOP have made such a hardcore issue about Oil drilling in Alaska, demanded Congress (and House Speaker Pelosi specifically) to make a decision before they moved out of session for the summer, (then turn up the Gov. as the VP) they are and will be married to the issue until the November GE.

Now have a beer and a wank and relax.

Sarah Palin, July 2008: "As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does everyday?"

KK, sorry, I don't do immature pissing matches on the internet. If you'd like to discuss issues like a mature adult, then by all means...

You missed the issue and I just let you know what you can do with yourself and that personal attack you call 'mature'.

If I may recap: you suggested that the Palin family is making a fortune in oil. The husband, by all acounts, has worked a couple of decades as a field hand and has now worked his way up to "supervisor" which is a nice title for a guy that still gets dirt under his fingernails. The Governor, by all accounts, seems to have gotten her political spurs by taking on the oil industry and increasing their taxes (to their detriment) and to the benefit of the Alaskan citizenry. It does not appear as if she gets any money at all from the oil industry. I'd simply like for you to tell us how that constitutes the Palins making a "fortune" in the oil industry (your implication). Nothing more, nothing less. So do enlighten us.

There ... you're enlightened

You see, the idea is, you make a statement, and then I ask you to explain it. Rolling gutterballs won't do the trick. So explain to us again...how are the Palins making a fortune in the oil business? How big is this fortune that you claim they have?

I just cannot shake the feeling that out of a nation of 300 million inhabitants, these four people (McCain, Palin, Obama, Biden) are the best we can come up with to lead the country and, largely, the world. Unbefuckinglievable.

No dear, the idea is that everyone has an opinion on any given topic/issue and they are entitled to it. If you need to express WHY you don't agree, feel free. But don't attack me for no reason because you missed the intended connection or message. So by all means, explain what you meant by, 'Your mileage may differ'.

I'd simply like to know why you're incapable, or unwilling to answer what is essentially a very simple question. You made an assertation. I'm asking you to back it up. Your problem, of course, is that you can't. But everyone can see that by now.

BTW "Your mileage may vary" is frankly a sneaky way of saying "feel free to cling to nonsensical theories".

Dunno who this bint is, never heard of her.

Apparently the riggers like her hubby though. ?

As an ignoramus, why would Mc Cain pick her?

What does she have to bring to the party apart from being a wench?

Please. The passive-aggressive tactic is so old news. Admit your insult was uncalled for. I've been under the gun more times than I can count...and I've sprinted back lively. So the balls on you to explain what you meant by your statement, in particularly, the words I quoted.

edit: I see you tried straightening that out. Hardly good enough ... unless that's the translation in another language.

bluedave, Palin is extremely evangelical (a group that McCain has polled poorly with), and also quite charismatic by all accounts.

So on the Republican ticket, we now have a strict Creationist and someone who doesn't know how to use a computer. Brilliant.

OK, so, once again dumb, is McCain trying to appeal to the bible belt and the Moral Majority type people?

I thought that was firm Republican territory anyway?

Cinzia, I hate to seem like some kind of Palin apologist here. As I've noted above I'm very sceptical of her preparedness to be VP, much less POTUS. But I don't think "strict creationist" is accurate at all. And frankly, after hearing a minute of her speech, I fail to see the charisma, particularly in a race where one candidate has charisma dripping out of his pores. It seems as if many GOPers are saying she comes across like the lady from the PTA.

DanHessen, you're perfectly welcome to come up with your own explanation for bluedave about why Palin was McCain's VP choice. I'm certainly open to other interpretations, myself.

bluedave, many traditional Republican voters apparently feel that McCain is not conservative enough. Palin, whatever else she lacks, is apparently very conservative.

I did. One page back. Seriously though, I don't think she's a real red meat candidate for evangelicals. Her creationism credentials are kind of fuzzy at best.

OK, didn't mean to cause a fight, I was looking to understand who or what she is?

I had read about this 'alleged' statement. Interesting now that the GOP will find it impossible now to shoot Obama down using 'experience' lest they eat some humble pie ... she's been in office now since December 2006.

Just for you Dave, cut copy paste below. She's an absolute unknown for most of America.

************************

Anyway, just my $0.02. I don't see any real stroke of genius in picking Palin. They're hoping to throw some kind of bone to evangelicals and Palin has some credentials there. Maybe they're desperately hoping to pick up some kneejerk vote-your-ovaries female voters who would have gone for Hillary. Likewise they seem to want some of Hillary's lunch pail voters and that is where I think Palin's family comes in. Her husband is apparently a lifelong UNION member (on the GOP ticket?) and a champion snowmobile racer.

That's the image they want to project, the rugged individualist of American lore which I suppose they'd like to use to dampen the Obama's who are looking more and more like a 21st century Ebony Camelot, all glitz, glamour, and chic. I don't think it'll work though. I heard a minute of her speech and she's kind of anaemic at the podium. She's all of a first term governor in a tiny State (population-wise) and the DEMs will likely skewer her for lack of any meaningful beltway experience. I just feel like McCain picked her on a spreadsheet full of demographic wishes and not on meaningful qualifications.

Still think she's kinda cute.

On Edit: Is anyone else kind of unsettled by the thought of this gal having her finger on the button when, nine years ago, she was fighting to get elected as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (pop 8,000). And I thought Obama came out of nowhere.

KK, I hate to be persnickety, but were you gonna answer that question or just hope it goes away?

Sorry. Found it. You say (and I don't disagree in the least):


As a notorious Hillary supporter (on this forum, anyway), I hope this proves to any holdout "vote-your-ovaries" Hillary enthusiasts that just any old woman candidate will never do. Palin is the opposite of Hillary in just about every particular.

I also hope that this tactic fails spectacularly, if it's just a cynical ploy to appeal to women, and proves to McCain and others that most women (and feminist men) are not so stupid as to vote against many of their own interests just because a candidate is a woman.

Neither. I click Indifference. You said what you had to say. I said what I had to say. You don't have to agree with me, your choice.

On to more important matters.

Well sorry to inform you but when you make such assertations and can't even begin to back them up with a smidgeon of fact or otherwise logical explanation then your credibilty is out the window. I suspect "on to bigger and more important things" means going to bed with the smug feeling that innuendo followed by brusqueness and obfuscation is some sort of substitute for sensible discourse. Sleep tight.