U.S. Presidential Election 2008

The Democratic Messiah



AAAAaaahhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa...the Dems didn't count all the votes again!

Didn't mean to say Missouri is a Western state. Meant to say Midwestern in that state's case.

ObamaTaxCut.com

I am not sure why Biden as Dem VP nominee makes eurovol think Romney is less likely, but IMHO, Romney is someone who could go toe to toe with Biden.

I still think it's a non-story. Senators are supposed to encourage pork federal grants coming into their home state, and for research medicine in Illinois the University of Chicago Hospital would have to be near or at the top of anyone's list. Neither Michelle Obama's salary nor her job performance was remotely affected by that (again, rather small) grant. *yawns again*

And kudos to Bill for putting his rage on hold last night.

I can't say how much I appreciate watching the convention on (Sky's) BBC Parliment (C SPAN feed) - no commentary, just the coverage with repeats all day.
I absolutely cried tears watching Beau Biden (and his video tribute) talk about his Dad and his plea for Dems to be there this fall because he can't be. And former President Clinton surprised me, had me saying right on! and cheering by the end of his speech. He definately knocked it out of the park. Joe Biden was fierce and great and Obama showing up last was right on tap. I was so impressed. Well done.

Hooray, Team Clinton! Bill gave a much stronger endorsement of Obama's presidential qualities than Hillary did. So Hillary didn't have to do a 180 on her primary positions critical of Obama, she is poised for another run at the presidency if the opportunity presents itself, and Bill has redeemed himself for his so-called role in dividing the party. That's leadership.


Expaticus, you were implying Hillary isn't quite feminist enough, right? Is that where the joke comes in? Where do you think Hillary's mother got her own last name? Why, from her own father, of course.

Yes, you did quash my little attempt at humor.

Biden rides the train to work. Wanna discuss the working class values against him with Romney?

Yes, Bill was the old Bill again. AND he actually looked like he meant it! Hillary looked proud of Bill and Michelle looked like she was going to cry! He hit the home-run he needed too. BUT, probably the most important thing for the Hillary die-hards is that Bill sucked it up and it showed. That my friends is a portrait that will go a long way with the PUMA types!!!

You are slowly getting there (except for the part about Hillary running again). Set your female sights on Kathleen Sebelius! Hillary will do much better taking over the Senate from Reid and the role that unfortunately Kennedy will not be able to continue.

Today is Obama's day. It's time for the PUMAs to fade back into the scenery, IMHO. They've made their point for the cameras, and there's nothing more they can do besides working through party channels to address the mechanisms they feel are flawed (such as the primaries process.)

eurovol, I'm happy to see more women getting onto the national political stage, but I was not a Hillary supporter solely because she is a woman, believe it or not. And Nancy Pelosi is really on my shit list, but that's for another thread.

Pelosi is on my House Leadership shit list, but not on my Dem Party shit list. For me, those are two separate lists and I Party-wise I am more interested in taking down those that against Dean's 50 State Strategy! Being responsible to the Party and being responsible to your constituency are two different things outside of basic ethical standards.

And I am serious! Just cause Hillary was not Prez material for me, she is the type to run the damn Senate for years to come. That is a legacy that will be written into laws and across Administrations! If I were going to be the "big-fish", I would definitely like to be that big fish for more than just 8 years max! She has the job for life if she wants it and that means more time to work on issues instead of re-election. WTF give that up for 2012?

Such a thing can't really be completely accurately polled, but I would be more than happy to take a look at the polls (source, please ) and then discuss my reasoning. I did see a poll recently which showed Hillary leading by 6 nationally in a hypothetical matchup with McCain, whereas Obama was either in a dead heat or barely ahead and well within the margin of error. I wouldn't expect you, of all people, to acknowledge something like that.

So you see you were wrong about the suspension, eurovol. Is all news that could possibly be interpreted as being unfavorable to Obama subject to a news blackout in your home?

Seriously, the 50 state thing has its limits. There is a stronger case for it than usual this year because of the political climate, but realistically, I would not bother with the most Republican-leaning sparsely populated states and use those resources elsewhere.


Sebelius is not anywhere near the politician Hillary is (plus I believe she is almost the same age). If you are looking for a female Democratic governor to play up, you would do much better to look at Janet Napolitano.

Although I agree that Hillary would probably be (from the Democrats' perspective) a solid Senate Majority Leader, I am astonished that after all the bad things you have said about her that you endorse her for such an important and powerful position (which controls the agenda in the Senate). I also agree with cinzia that it's bizarre that after all the grief you and Obama supporters gave HRC, that any Obama supporters would demand that she pull him across the finish line (if she is such a terrible person)! Obama has to define himself and what he stands for- he will win the election for himself, or lose it for himself. Neither Hillary nor anyone else can do that for him.

I thought the USA was a republic - so why are people wanting to vote Democrat? Where did these people come from? Were they originally east European communist immigrants or something like that?

BB - I think, like me, they were politically asleep. I didn't wake up politically until 9/11/2001.
The Dems have an advantage this year...because the country is in such a sorry state - economic recession, unemployment, costs of war and the highest prices ever, that people are starting to ask, hey what's going on? They are waking up and realizing, they have a voice of their own and the Dems are listening. McCain is saying - everything's just fine and they aren't buying it anymore.

So they owe some money to the Chinese - that can be fixed.

As Clinton said last night, the Conservative agenda has been spouted for decades but only now have we seen just what affect that has had on the Country. IT SUCKS!

I am surprised Bill Clinton of all people would say "It sucks" in a speech.

Truth is, there is never a time when the American Left is not complaining.

Truth also is, there is never a time when the American Right is not complaining.

Here's a complaint from the left:

I appreciate the relative high road the convention's taken. I hope the Republican convention will do the same. I don't know if swing voters are really paying attention to these things. It's more a party celebration, pomp and circumstance.

Well, bohemka, it's not as if that list of things above didn't happen in the past 8 years. It's not as if bringing them up would be smearing anyone unfairly. My personal feeling on why there hasn't been more on those issues isn't because the Democrats are too polite to mention them. It's because in many cases, they were complicit, or have been since 2004, when they gained some power back.

We'll have to see what happens next week, but if recent history is any indication, the Republicans will not be taking the high road:

Bohemka, I think you are watching another convention. I find the Dems to be very offensive.

That statement calls for details, yanksavage. Do tell.

just the shrill sounds of a Dem are hard on my ears. Yuck

Rumors are flying that McCain has picked Tim Pawlenty, governor of the Great State of Minnesota, as his running mate.


(Can't believe Pawlenty was skipping the Minnesota State Fair for Denver, anyway. Al Franken didn't.)

so what's Tim Pawlenty like then and why would McCain choose him over Romney?

Time for Obama to speak (yes, I am up to see it).

This is just awesome. How many are there? Over 80,000?

Barack Obama's Acceptance Speech

An amazing speech. He said what I have been waiting for a Dem Nominee to say since forever. He laid down the law that we aren't gonna play the demonization game. He is ready.

I agree with what David Gergen just said on CNN about Obama's speech: "It was a masterpiece." Heck, I recorded it, so I'm going to watch it again.

Yep, I'm up too. I've watched it twice now. If I hear one more time that he didn't list his 'changes'...I'll just say - WAKE UP and listen.

No HRC fireworks in Denver. No major protests, no crazy PUMAs. Successful convention!

UIC released the files for the Annenberg Challenge on Tuesday. Looks like terrorist Ayers was more than "a guy who lives in my neighborhood".

I know some of you don't like Michelle Malkin, but here is an account of BHOs organization attempting to shout down a journalist that is looking into this account.

When I listened to Air America, I never heard clueless conservatives calling in to argue. Maybe they all get screened at AA? The conservative hosts love to have them on.

Even factual accounts are attacked now. Just wait, Kurtz will probably be labeled a racist for digging through this historical record.

First impressions: Amazing ... Refreshing and new and people inspired. Dems always give good reason to vote Democratic, this year thou, they've even outdone themselves. Gorgeous family to boot.

moctoj2, that's the problem, McCain is trying to convince people everything's just fine and places the cold hand of deathly fear to anyone who thinks this is the time to change government. With the state of the Nation in ruins right now, no conservative can ever convince me that GOP policies have actually worked for the past 8 years.

"State of the Nation in ruins" may be the most hyperbolic statement I have seen posted on this thread so far.

Given Obama's thin resume, his evasiveness on a lot of topics and his insistence on making his personal biography a primary qualification for the Presidency, it's completely sensible for others to raise concerns about him (like Biden did during the campaign).

If a person believes that "Democrats always give a good reason to vote Democratic" such a person would almost certainly not be convinced by any conservative's argument to the contrary.

BTW, if Obama is elected, he is probably going to have to contend with a bond market that will not be as quiescent as it has been in the last few years. My guess is his proposed middle class tax cuts will be quietly put away with the rest of his campaign paraphernalia, and his plans for fiscal stimulus scaled back somewhat.

My favorite lines:

Individual responsibility and mutual responsibility - that's the essence of America's promise.
I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to take a ten percent chance on change.
Now, I don't believe that Senator McCain doesn't care what's going on in the lives of Americans. I just think he doesn't know. Why else would he define middle-class as someone making under five million dollars a year?
...even after we learned that Iraq has a $79 billion surplus while we're wallowing in deficits, John McCain stands alone in his stubborn refusal to end a misguided war.
We all put our country first.
It's not because John McCain doesn't care. It's because John McCain doesn't get it.
But I stand before you tonight because all across America something is stirring. What the nay-sayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me. It's been about you.
...change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington.

So America is in a recession now ... and whos policies got us there? You're a Conservative ... so I've come to expect these kind of asinine statements.

He's young and has excellent conservative credentials on all their core issues - isn't a Mormon either. If he picks him, Obama is in deeper trouble than he is now.

Interesting. Eurovol says I'm a libertarian.

As for the recession claim, the economy grew at a 3.3% pace in the last quarter. While no one thinks that is sustainable in the near term, it is also the case that a recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.

While I don't think we are necessarily in a recession, the definition is not simply '2 consequtive quarters' of negative gdp growth, that was one of several rules of thumbs from a 30 year old article that has widely been quoted as some sort of economic truth.

The early 2000s recession did not meet this mythical criteria and its still recognized by the NBER as a recession.

LP, I doubt that KK had the NBER criteria in mind when she made that statement. i.e., she was referring to recession in the layman's sense of the word (hence the layman's definition).

Still, the 3.3% growth IMO is a bit misleading as we're in far worse shape than that would imply.

Not that I care, I hope the dollar crashes for a few more years until my student loans are gone...

Then take them both and one has an idea of how to measure your level of personal bias.

Libertarian conservatism
The enconomy grew?

No one told my neighbor who just lost her home and can't rebuild because of insurance co. abuse, or the Katrina victims who are still without decent affordable housing, or the senior citizens that have to decide on their own to pay for their meds by the week or risk eating cat food for the remainder of the month, or the dynamtic gas prices that are forcing people to let the cars idle in the garage. So you said the economy grew??

Anecdotal plights do not change the fact that the GDP grew last year. That might not be the most solid factor to judge the economic health of the US right now, but it is preferable to anecdotes. At the most propsorous times in the US I could have found you tens of thousands of hard luck stories.

Incidentally, my sympathy for Katrina refugees is close to nothing after seeing what happened when my city opened its doors to them.

Also, why would you idle your car in your garage if the gas prices are high? That wastes gas and if your garage door is closed you could get carbon monoxide poisoning!

whether there us a recession or not, the USA is in a parlous state today compared to 2001:

• hated by the world
• losing the conflicts it has started
• economically in a worse state than 2001
• failing to counter a resurgent Russia and an impudent Iran

change is what he world and the USA needs and Obama is offering it

I have a bias against misrepresentations and flat-out lies. Just curious, but how do you define your political beliefs (in terms of the political spectrum)?

BTC, we already know how you feel about the US. You have certainly played your part in slandering us.

it's not how I feel about the US. Believe it or not I love the USA and care deeply for my many American friends. I just hate what Bush has done to ruin the nation and critically damage its standing in the world

An improbable Obama win would almost certainly provide some kind of reprieve from the politicians and media who have spent the last eight years blaming the Bush administration for anything from terminal cancer to crop failures in the Sahara, however I can assure you that it would not last long. Things would be great in the beginning, as I think that even people here are sick (and possibly bored ?) of complaining about the US twenty-four hours a day, but as soon as Obama would make it clear that he plans on the US running the show, the honeymoon would end quickly.

It would help if you could accurately view the current state of affairs, BTC. I fail to see how the US could be considered at this time to be "losing in Iraq". I assume you also refer to Afghanistan, and the action taken there was in response to attacks on American soil. If the Taliban had been willing to turn over Bin Laden and his lieutenants and willing to end the Al-Qaida presence there...

The state of the economy in 2001 wasn't that great, BTW, as the US suffered from the pricking of the Dot Com Era bubble and its attendant effects.

As for failing to counter Russia and Iran, I doubt you would support anything other than the use of diplomacy with either nation, and that seems to be what has happened/happening to the extent diplomacy is possible. I would be curious to know what you think the US should have done differently to "counter a resurgent Russia and an impudent Iran".

Finally, as to this hatred of the US you like to talk about, you have greatly overstated it. More on that some other time, but the leaders of Germany, France, and Italy, to give just a few examples, are pro- rather than anti-American. South Korea last year elected a staunchly pro-American president. And so on...