U.S. Presidential Election 2008

The (ever narrowing) difference between you and BadBob, kitty kat, is that BB doesn't even try to be serious, and therefore nobody takes him seriously.

Is that what you want? I haven't gotten that impression.

Suck it up cinzia and deal. Not everyone sees these people as sane, especially when they talk about bringing down the DNC because they feel Hillary's been treated unfairly...

Thanks for words and that's a good thing, because I don't take him seriously either.

Nothing wrong with a little fun, is there? I figure everyone here has already decided anyway. Right?

I don't see how the Democratic National Committee can be "brought down" because some HRC supporters don't support the Obamessiah (and the currently close polls suggest quite a few of them don't).

Incidentally, KK, what are your sources for this masterpiece of innuendo:


What exactly is being covered up, and what exactly is your proof of this bribery you allege occurred?

They see the party as betraying them by moving away from its core principles. Hillary's treatment is just a symptom of the problem, in their view. How does this make them insane?

Remember when the Republican Party used to stand for arguably respectable values like small government and fiscal responsibility? Their members just rolled over and let the party be handed over to Christian fundamentalists and people who are pro-business to the exclusion of every other value. If they hadn't done so, we might never have been treated to Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, etc.

So don't tell me these people are insane. You might not agree with what they are doing, but they are not insane.

Oh Bad Bob, I've missed you. Thank you for bringing high-tech dog shit back into our lives.


I am in tune with the world. And there are other sources of news.

What was so inappropriate about a video of a woman saying why she will vote for McCain?

True Enough... ... may the good humor continue ..

Here's some more high-tech dog shit for your life.

Moving away from the core principles? Last I checked the DNC had a Democratic oath, under which all members pledge. So which of these principles have the DNC moved away from, you think? Hillary was treated fairly and with kid gloves, respectfully, but was called out on her campaign positions. If anything, there were many people who were outraged and felt because she bent the rules, the DNC should not cater to her. Please, do we really want to go back to that?

A vote for Hillary is a vote for the Democratic Party. A vote for Obama is a vote for the Democratic Party. So if there is little dividing them, why the uproar over Hillary? Because Hillary supporters support HER. Not the Party. No surprises there.

Really? The Democratic National Committee has an oath? Are you sure about that?

Another thing, KK- I don't think you want to claim that all of those 18 million who voted for HRC don't support the Democratic Party.


This is also very interesting:


KK, you might not want to question the sanity of so many people. You need their votes.

Absolutely.

Then there should be no issues then with the Democratic Party uniting, because Obama is a Democrate as well...logic dictates.

Really?

This shows a different take...


I question the sanity of those that take it over the top.

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Aug. 23-24,
"If it were up to you, who would you rather see the Democratic Party choose as its nominee for president: Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton?"
Obama 59%
Clinton 37%

Notice: Democratic Party

Every election, there are a number of voters who vote for the other party than the one they are registered with. If so many former HRC voters are currently willing to support McCain, no realistic Democrat can take their votes for granted simply because they are Democrats. These are people who are generally either skeptical of or turned off by Obama for whatever the reason, and he needs to earn their support. The "What Me Worry?" attitude won't cut it with most of them.

KK, I wouldn't assume all is well merely from looking at the WP poll results if I were you. In spite of the number of people polled who think what you cited, this is still a tight race in the best political climate for Democrats since 1974. That means Obama is underperforming.

KK, you are one of the last people on TT that should be questioning anyone's sanity. Anyone who thinks all is well for Obama when he has a lead in a poll barely outside the margin of error is deluded. He'll get a bounce from the stage-managed convention, but there is still a ways to go.

Please explain to me why a Clinton supporter would vote for McCain. If you feel disenfranchised, for whatever bizarre reason, the sensible decision is apathy. Don't vote. To vote for a person that represents policies you formerly opposed tells me you have interests that lie beyond the boundaries of politics, or, more importantly, beyond your interest in the future of the nation.

weren't some of the 'registered democrats" really republicans though?

Just to set you straight. I haven't assumed anything.
Key point. The race is neck in neck. RCP has it at a tie.
Both candidates are losing a degree of support, to measue how much it hurts is all speculation... so gossip away.

I don't know that for sure at all. But recent polls have 27% of Hillary supporters saying they will vote for McCain. I don't get it.

Michigan doesn't count. Hillary pledged to follow the rules and she didn't. I have posted her pledge here.
The reason she didn't is in my mind clear. At that time she thought she had a cakewalk and gave a wink and a nod to both Florida and Michigan going early and telling them that she would seat them. It all backfired on her ass though.

Obama won the popular vote and by probably a much larger margin than is reported there because they, by their own admission, underestimate the caucus voter numbers. Obama's popular vote win is more in the 2-3 million voter range.

Also, if Obama had been on the ballot in Michigan, it is safe to say that he would have wiped away the difference RCP shows. His vote estimate was in the 2-300k range at that time. Today, she would lose and he would win.


Unfortunately, I believe this to be the truth. Hillary brought a lot of first time women voters in and they are pissed enough to vote for McCain in spite of themselves. In key states, this could matter a great deal. Hillary banked them in New Hampshire under the guise of being a victim of sexism. The "iron my shirt" guys may have even been a plant by the Clinton campaign and no I am not making this shit up. Google it and see for yourself.


See my comment above.

And yes, Hillary fudged on her promise. Again, see my comment above.

The memos published by the Atlantic back me up 100%. Camp Hillary planned some nasty lying shit way back in March of 2007 and that was after they went to the press with the "Obama is a Muslim raised in a Madrassa" story in January of 2007.

READ THE MEMOS!


Uh, they are crazed groupies just as much as Obama supporters are crazed groupies. The problem with Hillary's groupies is that they don't seem to want to believe the truth and the truth is that she LOST!

The other side has a real problem. They want a Conservative and yet they got McCain. You don't see them tearing down their nominee in quite the same fashion. Losing is losing and maybe just maybe males are better prepared in life for this than females. There is a huge difference in this aspect as we grow up being male or female. OK, too deep, back to the bitching and glad to see less sausage and more pussy. Woohoo, cat fight!

McCain publicly opposed Bush on a lot of things- the maverick image isn't a mirage, you know. That could have something to do with it, as well as dislike of Obama, and, as BTC pointed out there were some changes in registration to vote in closed primaries. The thing is, Obama has the chance to make himself palatable to those Democrats who now doubt him. If he is able to do that, he wins, and probably comfortably.

It is because Hillary isn't supporting Obama the way she should. She is trying to make a play for 2012! That number historically should be more like 6-8% max.

WOW, succinct and to the point and best of all, actually fairly accurate. I am impressed.

But I thought he voted with Bush 95% of the time. True, right? I'm not sure he's much of a maverick, but he's a fly boy... who... takes my breath away...

Sorry.

His movement is the same movement that Obama must make to win the election. McCain is just shoring up his Conservative base and Obama is shoring up his independent base and stealing moderates. The religious nutjobs are not flexible in their support as much as the independents. That is why there seems to always be a shift to the right by both candidates. The problem with Bush II is that he actually governed from the right of right and with idiocy to boot.

These are not the youtube videos you should be looking for.

I don't know about that, bohemka. How do you define "voting with Bush"? There are some roll call votes that fall almost entirely along party lines, sometimes for procedural or other reasons. Does anyone have a reputable link on that?

I agree about the significance. I don't know. I have a mini-mini-blurb from factcheck, but I don't have a factcheck on factcheck.

I guess, more importantly, would be to see what he's disagreed on, but I will be honest... I'm not going to dig that up this late on a Monday.

Factcheck has already been proven to be wrong on occasion. Best to look at more than one site and then make up your own mind.

I think it's a matter of opinion/interpretation to a certain degree, and clearly some votes are more significant than others and some votes are tactical.

Anyway, that 95% was just for 2007:


I don't know how you can accurately assign a value of "voting with Bush" when he isn't in Congress. Some things are also bipartisan, so...


Hillary has called for her supporters to ´support Obama:
http://de.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080825/tpl-...ag-ee974b3.html

We'll see how much of a difference that will make.

Someone might have some fun with this:

Wow, McCain must be running for some office or something.

Now you know why I held my nose when I voted for Kerry. Biden told it like it was.

Interesting convention watching those Democrats inaugurate another dead duck for a leader – what a bunch of losers (last time it was "shoot them in the back" Kerry). Just wait until the photos of Osama Obama at Mecca with his Indonesian Muslim stepfather leak out. I think the Republicans are waiting to release these a few weeks before the actual presidential election.

There's just been a report on Bayern3 that some men have been arrested in Denver under suspicion of attempting an attack on Barack Obama.

"Unterdessen berichten amerikanische Medien, dass die Polizei in Denver mehrere Männer festgenommen hat. Sie stehen im Verdacht, einen Anschlag auf Obama geplant zu haben. Einzelheiten sollen erst am Nachmittag bekanntgegeben werden."

Here's the part of politics I hate...Biden who for years has talked up McCain and how much he has liked and admired him is now willing to talk him down??? To me that goes straight to INTEGRITY. And this goes on in Politics all the time...No wonder nothing gets done except a bunch of wasted time and wasted money.

yeah strange. obama's message of change seeks to improve that, but i suppose it doesn't look that great if his #1 is doing that.

tell you one thing though, if americans want to improve their image abroad, voting republican is not the solution. i don't know if you amis noticed that after the 2000 election people could still forgive you, but after 2004 you turned alot of people into racists (anti-american).

lots of non-americans are still baffled at how there could even be a competition, and at that, a close one.

I'm growing extremely tired of Hillary supporters complaining that they, and Hillary in particular, aren't receiving enough "respect" from the Obama campaign. Such complaints are consistently aired with an ignorance of the respect that Obama deserves, including from them, for winning the nomination. The lack of respect comes from Hillary's people, not Obama's. If the former wanted more consideration, they could have started by showing a little respect. As it stands, the jury is out on whether Hillary just wants to sink Obama this year, in order to have a chance to run lose again in 2012. Hillary supporters: you do deserve respect. How about showing a little???

get real. Privately they might be best of mates but this is an election campaign and in an election campaign you give it all you've got. Every vote counts and talking up your side and down the other side is all part of the game.

The Hillary Diehards

I just hope the dems win so I can go to a bar and have a drink in peace without having every douchebag with a cursory knowledge of American politics somehow thinking that I want to have a political discussion with them.

Found when reading posters comments on the DNC: by lovethesinner

We'll choose our own leaders, thank you. One thing I find baffling about your comments is that they seem to imply an encouragement of one-party rule in the US, a la Mexico's 70 year rule by the PRI. Americans elect the President and members of Congress they collectively feel best represent their own interests, not the interests and demands of non-Americans outside the US.

Anti-Americanism is much more complex than hatred of a Republican president by some non-Americans. It won't disappear into thin air with an Obama victory.

moctoj, that blog entry you posted is exactly the sort of overheated rhetoric and demagoguery that heats up Democratic party activists but turns off a lot of independents.

Very good preemptive speech. That writer hit in on point or close to

That's the kind of leadership Clinton can display, if she honestly is about the DNC and not her own personal agenda.
A former Clinton supporter was interviewed at the DNC and she too, was encouraging her peers to see the light.

The problem can also be pinpointed to behind the scenes drama that is instigated only by the Clinton associates.

I noticed that she is and has taken a stand... though agreeable hardly firm enough or in such strong (down to earth) words as to wake up the dizzy few.
So in the end... one can say she and Bill are in fact undermining themselves and their credibility. As I would be hesitant to vote for her for the Senate seat based on the behavior she shows during these supposedly unifing months.

Who knows if they were buddies ... but one thing is for sure, Biden's apparent praise had everything to do with McCain being an Independent. That's hardly the case now, McCain is GOP through and through. Even though they may not be estactic by that...

Is this the normal way Ami election campaigns are run?

Seems a bit undignified to me thats all.

Oh Hell, it give Fox News something to talk about because every snipet of Fox News that I could stomach today (see below) has mentioned poor Hillary headlining tonight and how sour her followers are. And Conky, I'm one of those independents that is not turned off...just the opposite. I am all for tearing down McKept man and his POW gut wretching story about how he knows how to lead this nation because he was stupid or unlucky enough to get shot down and taken prisoner. How many jets did he bail out of?
BTW, on Sky Digital, BBC Parliment is showing the DNC (and next week the RNC) Convention live all night and repeated throughout the days this week and next. It a feed from CSPAN and now I can watch it without all of those biased commentators.

I can't watch it at all. CNN sucks.

Amen. I'll do anything that improves the quality of drinking...