U.S. Presidential Election 2008

agreed! Federline for 2016!

I would say 2 years with Britney is equivilent to 5 years with the VC... and he is a douchebag - seems qualified to me.

How's that for politics! Did he happen to mention that he married the money? Not quite the same as working your ass off for it. God, someone put this man out of his misery.

Obama went to a Muslim school. He realized he wanted to go into politics only when he got on stage and heard the applause of the crowd - the guy is on one big ego trip.

I went to a Catholic school. and? Your ignorance level is showing dude ... don't let me read you on it.
So you know Obama better than he knows himself? ... get over yourself first.

I don't give a shit what stupid school you went to.

Stick your ignorance where the sun don't shine. You sound retarded.

You sound like a dumb democrat.

You present yourself like a stupid ignoramous...

Now go play with the other kids!

Why is it we here so much about his wife? Are they voting for her also? Might aswell I guess she has got this guy right under her thumb. She should but out I am sick of her face and she isn't even the first lady yet.


I am playing with the kids.

BOY is is not? It suits you.
Please ... The reason Cindy McCain hasn't been fully exposed in the media is because of some under the table cash exchange at the networks. Um, the internet has been on fire with her for months! Cindy's been a bad girl... Should we go there?

Of course we should - post the links.

lol ...

if your career as a political commentator should ever end, you know that you can at least design t-shirts that white trashy people buy from "the shirt stop" in the shopping mall. right after they get an airbrushed t-shirt of their girlfriend of course.

Maybe sell some monographed wife beaters, for a touch of white trash class.

Maybe eurovol should nominate Alf for president?

Where can we buy Alf-Lieberman shirts with that pic that was seared into my brain?

Interesting to see that Biden's war vote is being swept under the rug under a heap of inane comments about McCain's personal life.

Please post some links. I have not seen any links on Cindy, but I don't surf kos, du, huffpost too often.

I did see McCain call his wife a space alien here.

This is definitely silly season for the election. I think November is going to be painfully long to get to and I hope to God that it's a landslide so we don't have to repeat 2000's election again.

And 2004 as well. Remember, both were "stolen".

A colleague spends his time talking about the electronic voting machine systems. Talking to him, we are still screwed in a variety of ways and we will get whomever Diebold gives us.

So I guess we should all stop arguing?

If you read it again, you´ll see that the article is not about personalities, but about the system that allows them to flourish. As to why he would write about, begs the question why not? All views are represented if you want to look past Murdoch´s output.

OK, bohemka, maybe you could explain how you came up all by yourself with the idea that Hillary felt that winning the nomination was a foregone conclusion, thereby proving that you are not a media puppet.

Honestly, it felt like HRC was unstoppable for a long time in the US. The media seemed to love her IMHO. She was inevitable. Unstoppable.

Until The One came along and won a few primaries.

Now you have the most liberal senator with a very limited amount of experience running for C&C of the free world.

But hey, he has never killed anyone (that we know of ) and has not been caught sleeping around / being a baby-daddy. He may be too ethical to be a Dem?

The PUMAs are mad that HRC got dumped. Maybe McCain can find a woman for VP so the PUMAs have someone to support? I still like Condi, even if Conq has beaten her down.

By Susan Eisenhower - Love this. Aug 21st
Link

gatzke, the media may have liked HRC (at first) and had perhaps prematurely awarded her the nomination in the very early days of the campaign. But that's no reason to turn around and accuse HER of assuming she was getting the nomination. Which is what the media, and (apparently completely independently) bohemka, did. Somehow this would have been some kind of capital offense, obviously disqualifying her for the Presidency, to hear them tell it.

I'm saying this is an unfair accusation. Hillary was out there fundraising and doing appearances and working as hard as anyone to get her message out. She wasn't sitting around on a throne, getting pedicures and holding audiences with bundlers and lobbyists.

But maybe bohemka has other evidence.

No, I don't think the PUMAs are going to go for McCain. Maybe some of them will write Hillary in or vote for a third-party candidate, but I don't think they'll be a factor in November. Think about it. As disgruntled Hillary supporters, wavering about whether to throw their vaunted support to Obama or not, they're getting a lot of media attention and focus on their concerns from the DNC. If they just rolled over and said they'd vote for Obama, the cameras would be focused elsewhere. It's a smart move to hold out for now, really. But helping McCain gain the White House won't help their core cause:

Cinzia, you have got to read this blog then. She's carried on since June about NEVER, EVER voting for Obama. Go back a few posts, they are vile against him. I gotta hand it to her, she's thorogh in her defense of Hillary.
Link American Puma in Italy

That's one person. As I wrote before, a few of them might not vote for Obama in the end: they'll find a way to register their protest vote. But I don't think the PUMAs will be a factor in November (when it counts.) And I don't believe the ones who are serious about political realities want to allow McCain to win.

Uh, she and her own campaign did that or haven't you been paying attention? They even fought over how best to portray that without looking too presumptive. They thought they would have it sewn up on February 5th and planned for nothing more. They burned through cash like it was nothing. They didn't even have her on every precinct ballot in Penn and Ohio until the last minute. You really should read The Atlantic and the memos they published. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200809/hill...linton-campaign
What I said was true and it was even worse than what I thought.

The PUMA people are going to be a problem. They in fact already are a problem unfortunately. They will cut off their noses in spite of their face. Hillary has some work to do at the Convention and post the Convention.

Do you feel that this, in itself, would have disqualified her somehow for the nomination, is the core question, eurovol? Why? Try to get over your loathing for Hillary herself and imagine if, say, Edwards or Chris Dodd did the same thing.

Perhaps the gentleman protests too much ...? I doubt imagining Edwards or Chris Dodd doing the same thing would work.

If she chooses to do this, it will be for the future good of the Party, and I want to hear you and other Hillary-haters heartily thank her for that, from the bottom of your hearts, eurovol. You all certainly don't deserve it, after the character assassination you engaged in during the primaries.

She has a lot of possible work to do. Maybe she will go off the reservation and make the PUMAs happy? Or will she just read from the teleprompter?

Maybe she will call on her supporters to follow the "popular vote" and vote her in?

Maybe she will blame Edwards for her loss?

Maybe she will point out BHO will not be electable? She certainly did that often enough before the "end".

Could be exciting, but I doubt it. It could be this most exciting convention in a century...

oh cinzia, I'm sorry, but the Media and Hillary assassinated her campaign. Why do you think they called her Shrill? She sounded like a nagging old wife. She and Billy were disgusting. And her support since then has been pathetic. I am looking for some kind of backbone to Hillary's support of Barack at the convention. It's no wonder he didn't pick her. Her support since she dropped out has been terrible. I watched her leave the race, she never once smiled saying Barack's name and only smiled when she spoke of her historic campaign. Yeah, historic meaning the new guy beat the crap out of her.

You seem to have answered your own question ...

I don't think she will do any of those things, gatzke. She will make an impassioned speech cheering on the Democrats on to big wins in November in all races, and emphasizing issues that were highlighted during her campaign, such as education and health care.

The best way for her to prove that she would have been a great nominee is for her to give a positive, rallying speech, similar to the one Obama is expeced to give when he accepts the nomination. Do you think he's going to take the opportunity to bash Hillary? I don't.

But maybe people expecting some kind of fireworks will tune in hoping for those, when they wouldn't watch otherwise.

Kommentarlos, why aren't you?

moctoj2, they called her shrill because she was an intelligent woman fighting to be heard. God forbid. Look at your post and tell me your comments are not sexist.

sexist? because I didn't pick the 'woman'? Really? how was that post sexist?
leaves laughing all of the way to the kitchen to make dinner for my husband...

Exactly what I was thinking. Ageist too: "nagging old wife" ...

No, that alone wouldn't have. The fact that she couldn't even run her own campaign does. I am sure the two are connected, but the first doesn't disqualify her.

Your next question is kind of funny since it was the Clinton campaign that tried to pin that label onto Obama and suggest that that disqualifies him.


I should be thanking her now, but I am not because she is not doing what she needs to be doing and her future effort is suspect at this point in time. She is living up to the character that I assassinated don't you think?

Well, I see lots of strong women voicing their political opinions but where has Hillary been? Come on? Tell me. She should have taken a couple of weeks vacation and hit the trail. This was all about her - old nagging wife that she is. I bet she had a pact with Bill. I'll forgive you for Monica but come '08, you're compaigning for me so that I'm in charge in the white house. Time for you to clean up the messes then. I'm so over the Clintons.

cinzia, I generally appreciate the points you make, but you get too defensive about Hillary. And you're overestimating my access to US media.

There was an assumption, by nearly all, that she had it in the bag before it began. And when that started slipping away, I didn't see positive persistence. I saw indignant desperation. That's my opinion, which is certainly open to criticism and even attribution to others, if that helps you keep the rosters in order between those who know all and those who are media puppets.

Could you please keep this thread going even after the election? It has proved to be invaluable for getting me to sleep at night. One page usually does it for me unless eurovol is the author - then it is normally only one post.

It's very hard to see the kind of posts that moctoj2, eurovol and others make and not conclude that the PUMAs have a legitimate grievance.

Certainly Hillary and others made some mistakes in the running of her campaign, but uncalled-for (and sometimes sexist) media hoopla definitely played a role in her loss.

I personally don't think Hillary owes anyone anything (except possibly the bank.) She got a lot of well-deserved support for her candidacy and whether or not she feels she needs to "take a couple of weeks off" and campaign actively for Obama, it's her decision to make. (If she was such a horrible campaigner, you'd think Obama supporters would rather just see the back of her.) She got a lot of criticism from people in her own party during the campaign, when they wanted her to quit prematurely and get her shrill self out of the way, and I don't think she now has to turn around and appease them because she didn't get the nomination.

The PUMAs would see right through that, anyway. They're not all blind Hillary followers or poor losers. They are angry at the execrable treatment of their preferred candidate (partly) by the party, and they want to send a message that they are not ignorant Democratic loyalists. Hillary going out and telling them all to vote for Obama isn't going to make them all into a bunch of sheep.

bohemka, if you have limited access to US media, where did you see Hillary's "indignant desperation" instead of "positive persistence"?

Right between the eyes.


Losers lose all the time. Making excuses and playing the victim is why she deserves all she gets. The PUMA people do not have a legitimate right to whine and blame the ref, the spectators and anyone they can find. Sexism is not why she lost no more than racism is why Obama won.

If she had gotten out post Wisconsin and not gone to Rovian negativity, she would be on the ticket right now. She has no one to blame but herself and perhaps a couple of the ignoramooses she surrounded herself with.

eurovol, I think we can assume that if Hillary really wanted he VP spot, she would have gone out and campaigned actively for Obama after the nomination was decided in his favor.

Thank you for admitting that she hasn't done that.

Well, Obama doesn't have Hillary to blame this time for why his support has been in freefall the past couple of weeks, does he?

It may be uncalled-for, but it was accurate.

She was shrill. She often made my skin crawl when she spoke.

She had a fake laugh. It was obviously forced at times, especially when something difficult was asked.

She lied about her trip to the war zone.

Ironically, the only time I saw her and liked her was when she was on Oreily. She was not annoying and she seemed human. If she had done that interview a month earlier, maybe her ship would not have sunk?

Freefall? Aren't we being a little melodramatic.

Hillary not pushing unity certainly isn't a good thing. The Republicans using Hillary in their commercials against Obama isn't a good thing. Hillary going on a "we was robbed" tour isn't a good thing. Yeah, I would say that Hillary can take a lot of blame in this.