U.S. Presidential Election 2008

Track record isn't quite in our favor for that hope, is it?

I don't remember saying I was a republican. I may admit to being conservative with libertarian leanings, but that is as far as I usually go.

And I never said I had a decent argument, but thanks for the complement I may say others have idiotic arguments, but I (usually) try to not be self aggrandizing.



I am just the messenger. They have primary links there. You-tube videos. News reports. So you have to click twice to get to the sources. But S&L highlights the important parts of the text for you, in case reading comprehension is too difficult.

In fact, my statement

should imply to the intelligent reader that the link was partisan. I am just letting you know early what is coming (back) to be said about Biden.

This is boring old politics though. I kinda enjoy the "God damn america" , arugula, proud of america stuff. Barack is something different!

Senior moments plague Democratic candidates described here.

Barack introduces Biden as the next president.

Biden calls Barack "Barack America."

Maybe Biden can describe again how articulate BHO is?

Time to bury the partisan rhetoric? The head of a Democratic Party organization, i.e., the Munich chaper of Democrats Abroad, wants to bury partisan rhetoric? Do you just mean within the Democratic Party? If so, I'd suggest saying "intraparty squabbling" or something like that instead of partisan rhetoric.

TBH, eurovol, I don't see how anyone could actually get groups with hugely divergent viewpoints to "work for the Country".


Assuming he woud listen to all sides (does that mean non-Democrats as well?) would he actually incoporate the interests of all sides into his decisions? Would Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid do the same? Would they bother with large Democratic majorities in Congress?

Horseshoe said those things. And no one has ever found fault with anything he's ever said, so...

You can't take a breath without crap stories with crap points being plastered all over the news and internet. The spin is incredible.

Hence why Biden's on board...

Have attem Biden!




Pointedly factor in his anti Roe v. Wade position and lack of Women's Rights support and I can see this being one of his problems.

So there's no confusion:

"His problem" specifically meaning McCain's struggles to win over women ... the more intelligent gender.

That's not partisan rhetoric? Why not? Because Obama and Hillary are from the same party?

Sounds a hell of a lot like "Obama is our Savior" to me.

The New York Times has an editorial today about the economy and how each candidate proposes to deal with it:


Why are so many Americans so fearful of "a strong social safety net"? No matter who wins the White House, assuming the race is close and the Congress remains split fairly evenly, does such a safety net stand a chance of being built/strengthened?

Probably not in flyover country: Berliner Morgenpost

Looks like the yokels didn't appreciate the Berlin jaunt.

Whose saviour ? Some alternative commentary here In the great tradition

Interesting column, dangermouse. Some of the wording is a little strong for me to agree with, but the conclusion, for anyone too busy, or insufficiently motivated, to look at the link:

Nobel peace prizewinner Jimmy Carter, he of the Camp David agreement, was a war-making president? Was he really?

Jimmy Carter. War-making President.

Just stirring the pot a bit

I distinctly remember my lifelong democrat grandfather commenting on election eve 1976 that we'd "elected a good man." I actually stick to my guns that he will go down in history as the most unfairly maligned president of all time. Let's see if Bush II breaks out his toolbox after he's been deposed.

Jimmy Carter was ruthless. We all know that. He was a cutthroat madman that our nation was foolish enough to hand the keys to. We barely escaped disaster thanks to the voting in of the tolerant, man-of-the-people Mr. Reagan.

All dangermouse's article tells me is that that guy thinks presidents have sucked, do suck and will suck. Case closed. So why the hell'd he write an article about it? Blogs are the new doomsday sandwich boards, I guess.

Even I wasn't expecting him to fall on his own sword like this _{so soon} .


Source: ABC News

Wow. Yeah, that's definitely going to hurt him. I cannot believe it. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. Definitely the moment of the election year. There will be no recovery. The McCain camp will be partying tonight.

Indeedy and Obama has not helped himself as women cannot quite rightly


So seeing much of a muchness before them, they pragmatically decide to back the horse that is going to look the least shoddy in public - particularly on the international stage - hence the best hair will win.

Why do you keep quoting yourself?

Can someone tell me why support for Obama has stalled over the last few weeks? Do Americans really prefer McCain?

Why do posters on this thread keep repeating themselves?

Gosh, Kommentarlos, that's a very good question. Whereas your comments are so valuable you post them twice.

I'm gutted _honest

*_{Shuffles off wounded to the core wondering if my internet licence is going to be taken away from me*}

McCain has hardly overcome his greatest challenges, women and conservatives (are there others?) and Obama leads Nationally at 49% of the vote going into the Dem Convention. So look at in perspective. No, Americans are not perfering McCain at all.

If anything, people are waiting to know who McCain's VP will be.

Support isn't fading. I think we're all tired of telling each other the things we already know. 90% of voters' minds are made. There's 10% that could go either way, but they're certainly not on this board.

But, getting back to why you may have thought Obama's support has stalled... it's hard to go out of your way for a dude that's kickin' it on a beach in Hawaii.

Like Germany, it is vacation time in the US. Post Labor Day is when it all gets back to business, politics and football!

US elections: Why has Obama stalled? No one mentions race

there have been quite a few polls recently showing a McCain lead tho, haven't there?

eurovol, can you find me an Obama/Biden bumper sticker? Really. I don't have a car, but I want one.

If reports that she wasn't even vetted for the VP spot are true, it isn't surprising, and is actually quite understandable. It's a slap in the face to the 18 million people who voted for Hillary Clinton, but then again, it isn't surprising considering the pompous "inevitability" of the Obama campaign.


He sure took the same "bullshit" that Clinton did when it came to voting for the war in Iraq!


Yawn. They'll play the race card later on in November to explain why they lost the election.

The gender gap in its current form has only existed since 1980, and it certainly didn't keep the Republican presidential candidate from winning 5 out of the last 7 times.

I'll see if I can find something on the women's vote since 1920.

With all this talk about houses, it seems Biden has some issues with his own finances and the credit card companies:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDU4O...zc3ODdhOTA0ZjQ=

Since KK wants to quote Biden on McCain


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/07/06/s...-g_n_24495.html


AND


AND


Biden was a great choice for Obama, IMHO, because he fit Obama's criterion perfectly for what BO wants in his VP. These comments by him are, however; IMHO, extremely disturbing.

One problem with saying that race has caused Obama to slip in the polls through last week is that his race has been a known and obvious fact from the beginning. Quite a few people are either more likely to support him because he's African-American, or are because he is, so I think it's either a wash or he benefits by being African-American.

When it existed who cares, the point is McCain needs to appeal to women now to get the vote. He's trying, but so far he is not overriding Obama's lead in the gender gap. No need to bother...no ones asked you to.

Seems you do a pretty good show of swiftboating yourself.


Please, Biden liked McCain's spitfire when he was an Independent. Seeing as how McCain's embraced the GOP and their policies, I hardly think Biden's former remarks still stand. Different time, different day.

"Pompous inevitability" was the definition of the Clinton campaign.


Let it go.

McCain doesn't need to win more female voters than Obama to win the election, but, yes, he wants and needs to do better with female voters.


Biden chose to say those things, and I merely pointed them out, Swiftboating would be an appropriate term only if they were falsely attributed to him. See KK's recent most attempt at a hatchet job on McCain for an example.


Yeah, you just can't believe anything those politicians say. Why believe anything Biden says during the rest of this campaign since he said a year ago that Barack America Obama was not ready to be President.

BTW, McCain has always been a Republican during his political career.

I am so sick of hearing that, which is just parroting some BS that the press liked to spew when they were smearing Hillary generally.

I'm sure HRC is disappointed she didn't get the nomination (and I'm disappointed, too, but not as bitter as some people would like me to be.) She was sure working hard to get her message out when I went to see her in person in St. Paul. Pompous inevitability was not in evidence at the rally.

Says you. Last I checked women were a voting demographic being courted by both candidates. If the vote didn't matter...why's McCain trying so hard? ie. his latest attempt to 'enrage' women who supported Hillary by Obama choosing Biden.

Forgetting, of course, that Obama and Hillary had at least one personal one on one meeting (the details of which were never reported, but heavily speculated on), campaigned together and that she'll take a significant role in the DNC Convention. Gotta love the GOP for throwing more crap onto the airwaves.


Biden's strength is that he lets the GOP know exactly where to stuff it. But it most certainly is if you also choose to edit the context away and malipulate the meaning and circumstances, if your intent is to smear the candidate...shall we revisit the definition of swiftboating:
"Swiftboating is American political jargon that is used as a strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair or untrue—for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign."

Veterans not voting for McCain have a legitimate gripe ... based on his voting record in Congress which is as accurate as you can get, unless you think Congress clerks go out of their way to falsify congressional minutes just to make poor ole McCain look bad.

Yea, um ... when you were reading that conservative article did it happen to mention that at the time Biden was campaigning AGAINST Obama for the Democratic Nomination? I guess not. McCain had better stay away from Romney...because Romney's words can come back to haunt him

footnote: The Stepford wife look of Cindy McCain in that photo is freakin creepy.

I'll say it again, KK. McCain doesn't need to win a majority of women's votes to win the election. I am sure he'd love to, but I am also sure he is not expecting to. To win the election, he does need to win more support from female voters. I never said anything like what you just attributed to me above, so do not misrepresent my words.


I'm absolutely amazed that KK has become a convert to the concept of context. Stop the press! What you have just decribed is what you did to McCain.

Feel free to put all of the comments Biden made which I quoted within their complete context if you feel that they have not been properly represented within context. I doubt you are capable of doing that.
As for your swiftboating allegation, the quotes of Biden's comments are true. They certainly aren't ad hominem attacks. To accurately quote the man himself is certainly fair, and certainly isn't a smear.

There you go again, KK. There is no substance to what you posted here.


Remember posting this KK (hint: take your own advice):


I have already pointed out that you ignored the context of all 8 McCain votes you cited (out probably hundreds if not thousands of votes on veterans' benefits he has made) some of which were procedural, and one of which had nothing to do with veterans (only active-duty personnel). Furthermore, I proved out that you flat-out lied when you claimed McCain's vote on the Wellstone amendment in 2001 was "anti-veteran" and also showed that on one of the alleged anti-veteran votes by McCain, your Obamessiah voted with McCain and a majority of Senators. On the Wellstone vote, you didn't have any idea what the vote was about yet, you claimed it was "anti-veteran". You might not even be able to explain what most of the 8 votes were about, let alone be trusted to accurately put them in context and accurately represent what they were.


Was Biden lying then, or was he telling the truth about Obama?

Um, that's exactly what I just said and you just confirmed it.


To quote the man out of context is a smear...to think otherwise, I would question your level of political comprehension. Other than that, I don't need to justify Biden, he does it well enough on his own.


You haven't pointed out anything. You've had an opportunitiy to post your opinion and no ... it doesn't pass muster, so you haven't proved anything. And if Obama was doing so poorly among Vets then I guess ...


would be fasified too right?


Get over it, Biden .. just like Romney and Huckebee, were out for the nomination. Isn't it par the course to cut down your competition? Romney seemed to think so...should I go uncover what Huckabee thought about McCain?

UM, perhaps you should have paid attention a bit earlier:



Once again, provide context if you feel more is necessary. Having to provide context every time is going to prove to be a real burden to you and other Obama supporters, KK. You should not be questioning anyone else's "political comprehension".


Wrong. Review the relevant parts of posts 2059, 2065, 2076 and 2090 (maybe also 2062) for starters. Any person with a shred of honesty would admit by now. As for Obama's performance among veterans, he doesn't need to win a majority of them, but I am sure he would like to do better than the 34% he recently polled.


You posted some opinions. Which specific pieces of legislation are you/they talking about? What was the context of the vote? Perhaps these are Democrat-leaning groups, and perhaps they have the same lack of understanding of parliamentary procedures in the US Senate that you and other Obama supporters seem to have.


If they end up on the ticket as the VP, I see no reason why you should not, if you feel so inclined. But you still haven't said whether or not Biden was lying when he said that Obama isn't ready.

There was no point. You already agreed with me, the rest was jipper japper nonsense.


All of this has been delegated to the trash bin.


Hum ... did you happen to see this last sentence?
It wasn't that long ago that I wrote it.

I think you need to go back and re-read it. If I told you Berlin is the capital of Germany you wouldn't admit I was right.


If you wish to wallow in denial and/or ignorance, that's your loss.


A simple yes or no will suffice- was Biden lying or was he accurately telling the truth when he said Obama isn't ready to be President?

BTW, KK, what is your source for this quote?


Which legislative session(s) are they talking about? What was their methodology? Do you even know what it is you post from other sources other than perhaps a cursory glance? There must be hundreds of veterans groups, and you harp on three of them.

EDIT:

Hardly necessary. I read exactly what you wrote.


Then answer your own question. If you think it's a simple yes or no, then you surely have no grasp of the language nuances that occur during a debate between competing candidates in an election year. I already expressed my opinion on that issue.


Exactly ... hundreds of Veterans groups, so it is impossible to say with any ounce of certainty that McCain has the support of even, 'most' Vets. As you even contradict McCain himself. He claims he has the support of 'all' Veteran organizations.
Fact Checking McCain ... He Failed.

From Think Progress:


One can understand why, discussing Vet issues will require him to justify his lack of support. I'll not be going in circles here ... been to this issue, and am over it. Feel free to squeeze the life out of it to convince yourself otherwise. The Veteran vote isn't set in stone...yet.

So what was the nuance of Biden's comment that Obama was not ready to be President? Within the context of that nuance, was Biden being truthful or dishonest with that unambiguous statement? Surely, as an Obama supporter, you must be able to answer that simple question.


Then you should never have posted what you did.


I remind you that the Gallup Poll surveyed veterans recently, and since 56% of those polled did indicate support for McCain (v.s. 34% for Obama) I would say that there is at least "an ounce of certainty" that McCain has the support of a majority of veterans. The Gallup Poll is more reliable than going by veterans' organizations' grades since many (probably most) veteran organizations do not endorse candidates (note that the ones you cited are officially nonpartisan and thus do not offically endorse candidates). Furthermore, many veterans are not members of a veterans' orgnaizations, and of those who are, opinion is not likely to be monolilthic, even if you assume that veterans are single-issue voters (which they are not). You have misrepresented what McCain said (see the Fact Check link above) but that comes as no surprise.

Fact Checking McCain ... He Failed.
This is another clear example of leftist media. Once again, you haven't done your own research and have no idea what legislation was used to rate the candidates, other aspects of the methodology and other factors that would influence their ratings.


Think Progress is a leftist blog. As usual, your "evidence" sounds more like delusional propaganda with no substantiation. I have no doubt the ritual slander of McCain's record will continue, but I would think he will fight back and parry the slander. Speaking of nuances, it's rather hyprocritical to search for ones benefiting Obama and Biden or posit them while acting as if there could be none for McCain. If you actually read and understood what I posted about the opinion polling on veterans rather than relying on your own imagination of what I said, you would know that I have previously stated that these are the current polling results.

If you want to continue to make an issue of voting on military-related legislation, Obama's vote to cut off funding for Iraq (which regardless of one's position on using force, was a very irresponsible vote) is bound to come up. That, and you will reinforce the fact you took McCain votes out of context and made a inaccurate and uninformed generalization about them.

KK, I am wondering something else. I wonder how Obama would be, as you claimed earlier in this thread "better for your payroll". You do work in Germany, right?

Holy crap, this is a good one I missed.

McCain, Why are you more qualified on the subject of the economy:
uhhh.. Vietnam, POW, Radical Islam, Iraq... does that in no way answer your question?

Well, you're obviously at least a little bitter, or you wouldn't have accused me of being a media puppet. That's actually what I think. It's been said about Obama as well. Does that make Jules a parrot?

First coverage now out of the McCain and Biden inaugural debate

The all-time greatest dodge is an appropriate title, indeed. They could've made him look like a real ass if only they had said right after that battlefield speech:

"Uh, yeah, but I believe the question was about the economy."

Mitt Romney... does anyone like that guy?

He also had a surprising retort at Biden's jab about how many houses he owned.


I'm sure there is some kind of drinking game that can be developed for every time he cites his time at Hanoi Hilton..

Its a shame my options include either him or Biden (who is the RIAA's little bitch) residing in the white house. And Barr isn't even a libertarian. I think this might be my first year of abstaining from voting.

Those opportunities apparently being to leave your model wife when her looks deteriorate for a hotter richer one.

Not just RIAA, but also MPAA,FBI,CIA, etc. etc. He voted in favor of most of the recent privacy killing laws, (Patriot,Patriot 2, CALEA)
From what I've read his track record says he's again't personal privacy and all for letting the Intelligence community do whatever they want.
Same for the Copyright groups.

Well I can't fault him there, that is pretty much the American dream.