U.S. Presidential Election 2008

BTC, surely you are aware that David Miliband is an atheist (albeit one of Jewish descent)? I took note of this some time back because I am also (partly) of Jewish descent, but, like Miliband, I am not an adherent of Judaism. Furthermore, is Miliband's mother Jewish (or of Jewish descent)? If not, then he cannot anyhow be considered a Jew.

If there's proof that Obama (and every other presidential candidate) has royal blood, surely it can't be too hard to prove that he has Jewish blood too.

The BBC reported last night that he has changed his stance on offshore oil drilling. Since he is also reported to have changed his stance on gun control, withdrawal from Iraq, campaign funding, free trade and telephone tapping, what other surprises will he have in store?


Sounds to me as if his policies are completely flexible.

Lorelei, during the 2004 Democratic primaries, John Kerry and Wesley Clark boasted about their Jewish ancestry, but I don't expect Barry O to conjure up some Jewish ancestry.

Expect more shifting from Obama as he tries to gain white votes.

his mother Marion Kozak was a polish born secular Jew too

When's he set to campaign in Florida?

Then he is a Jew under Jewish religious law and we should consider him a Jew. That said, IMHO, no adherent of Judaism would ever be able to become the UK Prime Minister.

Well, he's already trying to be nice to the Florida Democrats ...


Obama switches on voting rights

They all move to the middle after the primaries. Most rational people would agree that McCain has been (almost) there for quite some time. What was that quote: "McCain is conservative but not a conservative."

I wonder if we will see some more significant dirt come out on BHO after the primaries. If you sink his ship too early, the Dems could recover midcourse. Maybe more details on Redzko, Ayers, Wright, drug history, etc. Something could hit in the next few months, but I would be surprised if Hillary sat on any details during the primary.

Same goes for McCain. The lobbyist affair, old Keating 5 scandal rehash, ex wife story. Or maybe something new and exciting? He has had more years to be vetted and prepare counter attacks. Look at how long it took BHO to drop his church.

BTW, what church is he now a member of?

Sort of feels like the good old "Church of What's Happening Now".

why on earth would you conclude something like that? Malcolm Rifkind is a practicing Jew from Edinburgh who has held all the major offices of state and only two years ago was one of the candidates fpor the leadrship of the Tories who will almost certainly form the next government. I see absolutely no reason why a practicing Jew could not be PM. We have had several atheists, a couple of presbyterians and a methodist before so there is certainly no problem from the church of England's point of view and I can see no other reason at all why it should be an issue with either the electorate or the elite.

Relax, BTC, I have said this about the US as well- and I am not suggesting it would be because of anti-Semitism.

what would it be because of then? The US is an entirely different kettle of fish, as you have been at pains to point out, and candidates for high office seem to be all practicing Christians. The same is certainly not remotely true of the UK.

We've gotten off topic here (I am as much at fault for that as anyone). This has been discussed on another thread some time back. If you want to discuss it further, we can do so by PM.

What about Jack Straw in the UK and Joe Liebermann in the US? Aren't they both seen as potentially viable eventual PM/presidential candidates?

Jack Straw, David Miliband, Ed Miliband, Peter Mandelson, Ivan Lewis, Lord Levi, Margaret Hodge, Barbara Roche have all been Jewish members of the current government.

Likewise the Tories have also had many cabinet members who have been Jewish including Michael Howard, their candidate for PM at the last election.

How many are actual practicing adherents of Judaism (you have already noted Rifkind)?

Lieberman is no presidential contender, and, BTW he's an independent.

Religion is not race.

The racial history of the US is unique. It may have parallels in Europe, but nothing too close.

Race is by far a much more volitile subject. I am surprised it has not been a bigger issue so far.

Remember, we had a Catholic president back in the 60s and that was a big deal at the time. It will be a big deal this time.

Michael Howard and Lord Levy are certainly practicing Jews. I daresay some of the others are too.The first practicing Jew to join the UK cabinet (as Solicitor General) was Sir George Jessel in 1868 so it isn't exactly something new TBH

So we are just left with Rifkind- Howard is retiring, and Levy has been questioned in the Cash for Peerages scandal.

how do you work that out? I only know Rifkind is practicing because we know his family. Howard and Levy have both been described as synogogue attendees. The rest I don't know whether they are practicing or not and frankly it is none of my flaming business if they want to keep it to themselves. That being said, there is a long history of practicing Jewry in both the Commons and the Lords.

In any case why do you seem to think it would be impossible for a Jew to be PM?

Gwyneth Paltrow's Newest Film

African American/Black American (semantics) ánd while your opinion is noted, it's not one I share. Simple as that. Regardless of his upbringing, do you truly believe it is any easier in American society being a well educated black man? I can introduce you to quite a few well educated black men that have had a hell of a time growing up. One of them an accountant, one works for the IRS in D.C., several lawyers.
Did he he learn the political game? Sure, you try your hand at becoming a State Senator and tell us how easy it is. AND he did it while still maintaining his own personal approach to his job. You don't have to believe me, he's said in his own words. “What if a politician were to see his job as an organizer, as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them?� You see this mission clearly in everything he has has done during his campaign, that interview was back in 1995 I believe.

He didn't ride into this election on the coattails of 'I'm a POW and I'm entitled to the Presidency'. No, the man worked hard and he has a vision. He hasn't compromised how he approaches policy, he continues to offer real choices. It's clear that McCain has had to not just compromise, but outright lie. McCain's lost any vestiges of 'maverick' status ... he's a follower now and people recongnize it.

The point is, if Conquistador were pro-Obama, he wouldn't be so uptight and feel the need to ridicule and belittle and insult. Question should be, if he wasn't keeping himself busy defending McCain's lack of politicial and personal ethics, he would clearly see that he's standing on the wrong side of the fence. Truth is, McCain is not the honorable POW, for everyman, that he would like his constituents to believe. And it's surprising that with most on here claiming the media is left-biased, that the full force of McCain's character has not hit the major airwaves. Thank god for individual citizens and groups that make a stand and make it known his true character is anything but honorable.

Let's ignore the race issues here for a second.
Fact is that nobody in the US will be elected president, unless they regularly are shown on TV with a bible in their hands attending some kind of church service.

Where does that leave the separation of church and state? In the hypocrisy trash basket.

That's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

In fact you are, it shows you don't really understand what "Separation of Church and State" means

One clearly does not appreciate how great the separation of church and state in the US really is until one's kids attend a Kindergarten with crosses hanging all over the walls and then one get slammed with Kirchensteuer unless one renounces one's religious faith with the local government authorities, and experiences government-enforced restrictions on work on the christian sabbath and all (including the really dodgy) christian holidays ... in a supposedly "post-religious" country. And then after all that listening to people chortling over what a bunch of brainless bible-thumpers americans are. Now that's hypocricy.

Apologies for the brief reappearance of Expaticus Mark I.

No wait, it could be a conspiracy so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater...

How about the Church of England...

Love the humor ... but you are wrong

I don't like it either, but put it down to the constituency, not the candidates.

the sooner they disappear up their own fundaments the better ...

Well, we have already seen evidence that his tenure as an Illinois State Senator was far less than impressive, which is probably why he doesn't talk about it on the stump.

News flash for KK- well-educated African-American males have tons of opportunities in the US- investment banks and law firms (among others) fall all over themselves to hire this demographic. I know a graduate of Duke law school (he was also a Duke undergrad) who is about to make partner in a white-shoes law firm in NYC (at age 35) and he is far from an isolated example. As for tough childhoods and overcoming them, lots of us have, KK. It's definitely a feather in one's cap, but let's be honest, a tough upbringing is usually a function of the quality of your family situation (and I say this from experience, growing up as the son of a single parent). In a nutshell, although I would not say it's necessarily easy being a well-educated black man (life is not "easy" for most of us) it does have its advantages and there are lots of successful, well-educated black men.


Helmut Schmidt once said, "people who have a vision should go see a doctor". In case you haven't permanently crawled out from under whatever rock it is you hide under, I am here to tell you Barry O has done a whole lot of compromising. including just recently on FISA, offshore drilling, and energy tax relief. And that's not all...(cough, leaving Trinity).
Anyway, Barry O has shown a clear entitlement mentality lately, including acting overseas as if he were already President and playing the race card.


You mean like you do to McCain? FYI, yes, I ridicule sycophancy and comments that make Obama out to be some perfect saint (which we know isn't true) and McCain to be the devil incarnate (also inaccurate).

I don't know if you are trying to claim Obama is so messianic that he can heal the souls of his supporters or whatever it is you are trying to hint at, but you really didn't make sense with that comment.


That, my dear, is a matter of opinion. Of course, you weren't paying attention when I said I support neither candidate and find both unimpressive. The difference is there aren't regular postings from McCain sycophants making him out to be an angel and his opponent evil, which would also be naive as can be.


Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are wrong about McCain (who after all, is a human being and humans do make mistakes)? What you are doing seems to me to be character assassination, which is common in politics. The word "swiftboating" seems to come to mind.

Can the level of idiotic conjecture reach loftier heights on this thread?
Grown men of Jewish descent discussing candidates but not their backers
and power bases. Will the fog disappear soon? Doesn't look likely.

You can always turn the clock back to happier days during presidential elections...
Or was there ever a happier time?

My oh my - you have such insight KK.
Do call into the Barony sometime - maybe even election time.

-------

Forgive me I am American and the ways of the Brits and the Irish are foreign to me. My worldly travels have taken me through North America and parts of Africa ... yet I'm a virgin to the European way of life. But I am learning Barony? Was ist das?

Both candidates are (at least partly) of Irish descent, which may explain a few things. A gobdaw such as yourself should be overflowing with joy.

KK, so now you have had the pleasure of "meeting" the Taioseach of Tantrums. He's quite the English gentleman, he is.

Tell me C&D, why are you referring to my new found friend as a gobdaw?
I may have to take the cipín to you in no uncertain terms.
Apologise at once to my friend KK!

I believe the English gentleman using the moniker garibadi has had the cipin taken to his own noggin a few times too many...

Look here Conquistador - kindly stay on topic or I shall be forced to report you to the moderators.

Barkatu...

Do you do Euskera to Gaelic translations, garibaldi?

@ Bad Old EXP1: Yeah, but the German courts are moving against such stuff as crucifixes in public buildings.
I see the problem in this case as not being the state but the more conservative politicians, particuarly this side of the Weißwurst Grenze.

As for relatively obscure public holidays, are you seriously questioning the right of hard working agnostic Toytowners to have an extra night out on the lash now and again?

Sir, in the wise words of the Pooka McPhellimey: "I do everything and nothing".
Do come up to the Barony sometime and I'll explain the nature of the last
numeral to you.
I fully support General Chat.

Jaysus Conq. get your coat love, you've just scored!

Jealousy, pussycat - will get you nowhere.
Shite, there's no "pout" icon. Anyone got one?

Please note, especially those of you who are Obama supporters, that the author of this open letter is an Obama delegate to the Democratic National Convention!

Indeed, please take a good hard look.

From that same letter...


Here are key positions you have embraced that we believe are essential to sustaining this movement:


And Obama has held fast to his principles and his mission as an advocate (Roe v. Wade) a teacher (public school measures/drug reform laws) an organizer (receiving bipartisan support) and a leader (timetable for Iraq/Foreign policy). He has the full support of the DNC, and invites bipartisian support so he can ensure those proposals receive the backing necessary to implement. I highly doubt you will find McCain working with Democrates at all, creating the kind of divisive tactics that Bush has enforced. As for the rest of the letter.


***It bears repeating: When ... you .. are .. elected .. President.

If there was a huggy smilie .. you'd get one.

thank you sir. that's a very nobel thing to say.

Someone forgot to tell the GOP that Congress won't be back in session until September.

He's a politician. So is Obama. Why should we believe that his intentions are any more honorable?