Lower salary offered in Hessen than other states

Hi,

I just negotiated a starting package of 42,000€. I am a univ graduate(M.Sc Productions Engg) and will be takingup a job in R&D as a fresher. Is this a decent salary? The company is close to Göttingen (But in the state of Hessen). I tried to negotiate to 43000€ but my boss convinced me to settle to 42000€ stating that in Hessen the cost of living is cheaper when compared to other states. is this true?

another information, what will be the approximate take home pay after tax and health insurance deductions?

thanks in advance for ur replies,

cheers.

Generally speaking the cost of living is lower in the six Länder making up the former East Germany - wages correspondingly - though the gap is closing. Hessen haven't heard, but I kind of doubt it.

Your take home pay will depend on whether you're single or married, with kids or without, which one of the myriad healthcare providers you choose and whether it's a statutory or private one, the tides and phases of the moon. OK, last two maybe not.

@Silty1, thanks for the reply.. the infos that u had asked for goes as follows,

i am 25M/Single/no Kids and have an option of choosing my own insurance. so what's the best deal i can get on that front.

cheers

If you can prove you're really healthy, since you're young I'd say private health insurance is the way to go. Do a search and look at the tt wiki on it. I can't tell you how much money you'll clear at the end of the month though.

Here's a handy-dandy tax calculator.

On 42T€ p.a. you can't choose a private health insurance, you'll have to choose one of the public ("Gesetzlich") ones which take a percentage of your pay (each takes a different percentage). Some would claim to offer better service or maybe even pay for some things they don't have to, but what they have got to pay for is legally regulated. Certainly I went for the cheapest I could find (IKK Direkt) and have been perfectly happy with them so far.

Not an option at that salary level.

@ All,

thanks a lot for ur replies. Will see how best i can reduce the insurance package costs.

cheers

Nope on that salary level you have to go for state insurance.

I am not so aware of the graduate market but I actually think that is a decent salary for your age if you are a graduate. As for the cost of living being cheaper here I am not 100% sure on that - sure Frankfurt is cheaper than Munich but I have no hard figures.

Damn, forgot. You're right - sorry! (embarrassed smiley) You have to be making at least 48,150 a year (quick check) to go private.

hi,

I am yet to sign the contract. will be doing it soon. Havent spoken with my future-boss about the increments. Any clue abt how its handled in Germany? are there any fixed norms as to when and by how much % the increment will(should) be or should i make it clear with my boss b4 i sign the contract?

by normal terms how are the increments made? annually @ 10% or ??

cheers

Hello,

No idea about the rate of increase in salary, but just a quick calculation...
At 10% per year, you double your salary every 8 years... so I hope for you it is possible ;-)

is doubling the salary in 8 yrs good or bad? have no idea.

"Normal" salary increments (if there are any at all) would be 2–3 percent, so it is hardly more than a compensation for the annual inflation rate. It's perhaps different for individuals that excel and that a company wants to retain. A more successful way of achieving salary increases is either to get promoted or to look for a job at another company in a few years. But then again, the salary isn't everything, is it?

One can't say that living costs in all of Hessen are low (they certainly aren't in the Rhein-Main region), but Göttingen is a small "Großstadt" in a less affluent region IMO, so the costs shouldn't be that high.

Actually Göttingen comes under Niedersachsen. Where i am placed seems to be a small town 65kms from Göttingen in the state of Hessen. The problem here is as far as i have researched, the average house rent per month comes around 400-500€ including Nebenkosten. But most of them are totally not furnished. Am afraid not knowing how much i might have to shell out for setting up a reasonable living atmosphere. One house i saw, was totally empty.. roof, walls, WC and a Bath. If i move in there, then i might have to get the Kitchen-set too. Hard to find a Mobilierte-wohnung here...

Hence, i am not able to think that in Hessen its cheap. The initial set-up cost seem to be sky rocketing!

as mentioned above, you won't be eligible for private health insurance because you obviously fail to fulfill both requirements: current gross salary must exceed those 48.000.- EUR/year mentioned above and also in the three consecutive preceeding years your gross salary would have to have been in excess of this threshold (though slightly less in total amount for each year in the past but close). Would concur with the recommendation to go with the least expensive available -even though you ought to prepare yourself that come Jan. 1st 2009 all public health insurance will most likely go up in premiums due to some new regulation anyway. There could be one for your area even cheaper then IKK DIREKT, which is usually the least expensive across Germany, because I believe IKK Thüringen (should be availble in Hessen) is even lower. Have someone check for you the yellowed pages of the most recent edition of FINANZTEST, a consumer protection magazin, where they inform state by state about the least expensive public health insurances. Also make sure you inform your HRM people right from the beginning about your choice since they often put you by default into AOK which would mean additional 30-50 EUr per month costs to you...

For furniture: check also ebay, you might find some good used stuff for kitchen and so there...

Cheerio

@ Starshollow,

thanks for the detailed information. I just checked the insurance preferances and IKK Thüringen is available here and they offer 12.3% against 12.4 % offered by IKK DIREKT. WIll call them up sometime and try to see what benefits they offer. Are the benefits same for the insurances or do they differ?

Will check ebay too.

cheers

Welcome to the strange world of German renting.
You may be able to find something furnished, usually as a sublease.

Some places to look:
zwischenmiete.de
wg-gesucht.de
quoka.det

The offerings of the gesetzliche Krankenkasse (public health insurance) is quiet similar, especially if you do not have major dissabilities etc. For Germans the reason for switching is just the rate it's going for.

Please note that there will be a standardized percentage to pay for public health starting on 1.1.09 - so save all the money you can until then.

In regards to the salary: Hessen is usually one of the better-paying and higher-priced regions in Germany. So several union negotiated wages (e.g. for hospitality/ food producing industry) are higher here than anywhere else in Germany. So, the lower cost of living sounds flat-out like a lie to drop your expectations. I cannot judge your industry, but if the gross income difference of Euro 83 per month (1000/12) cuts the deal, I would really think if this is the company's culture you want to sign up for... But also on your side: Euro 83 gross means less than Euro 50 net a month. Would you pass this offer just for this amount less?

Btw someone once made me an offer to move from San Diego to San Antonio while keeping the same salary. I would get my increase by saving the state income tax and by the lower cost of living. I laughed at that corporate controller and got myself the increase of 10% anyway by pulling some online information about Texas' high rent and all...

Good luck with the new job!

IMO Hessen cannot be as a whole classified as a better-paying region. I wonder if the company is located in the middle of nowhere near the former demarcation line with the German Democratic Republic. The strip along the former border still suffers from a lack of infrastructure and economic drive ("strukturschwach" in German). This would mean higher unemployment rate, lower wages and cost of living. So the employer might not be lying but over-simplifying.

I agree that the fact that the employer haggled over 1000 € is a bit alarming.

The North-East of Hessen - where this seems to be located - is the ... well... most run-down region of Hessen. Higher unemployment in comparison to the rest of the state and so on. Especially the rural areas around there, but also Kassel itself. Pretty much everything north of a line between Marburg and Fulda.


The strip along the border (in all states, in the West) especially suffers because they are not getting anymore subsidies (they used to get them for being in such an unfortunate location), since that's all pumped into the east. In Bavaria, this has already led to Bavarian border towns having far worse infrastructure and far less available budget than the East-German towns just across the border.

Kersty strengthenes the point I made above with regards to the major change in public health insurance starting Jan. 1st 2009. There will be indeed a standard percentage rate introduced then for all German public health insurances. Thus, whether you are member of an AOK with 14-15% or a BKK or IKK with 12+x %, all will be raised to a common level. Raised, mind you, because the average percentage set by then will be higher then what most insurances charge now.

BUT... and this but is important: the well-run low-cost public health insurance are allowed to reimburse their clients/members if they do not need the full amount. IKK DIREKT has already issued statements that as an average they will return to their clients some 40-50 EUR/month in order to keep themselves attractive for current and new members... So it appears to make still sense to look for less expensive public health insurances in the future as it does now.

Cheerio

Hello All.

Thanks again for the detailed answers and for ur time.

Let me make a few things clear. I think that i might have made a mistake when bargaining for the salary package. Anyways, the deal went like this...

First, i read through a few articles about the average salary for my particular type of job.

I am a Univ Graduate with just 1 year work experience as a Research Assistant @ the Univ. Have a masters degree in Productions engg(Mechanical).

So i went through few gehaltsrechner and for example Süddeutsche zeitung and they said for a beginner in my field a decent starting salary would be between 37-39k€ P.A.

I called up a few of my friends who had started their professional career in abt less than a year. They all started on an avg pay ranging between 39 to 40k€. So, I thought i would try my chances with starting at 42K€.

On the day of the interview when i was asked abt the expected salaray, i said around 43k€/pa. But they said that they would offer 40k€. After a week on the second round they insisted on 40k€ and i said tht the least that i could go is 42€ with initial help (financially) for setting up an apartment for which they immediately said yes. (God dammit.. i think if i had stuck with 43k€ they would have finally accepted. , but hence made the blunder of saying 42k€ for which they immediately said yes. advantage lost!)

Then we both cordially decided that the pay will be 42k€ and they would lend me money to setup my home which would include the rent-deposit etc. Of course they said that i could repay them in instalments.

When i asked 43k€ in the beginning, they said that in Hessen the cost-of-living is low and they offered me 40k€. But now we have settled down to 42k€ and hence my questions regarding low pay in Hessen were posted.

But i have another problem now. Havent signed the contract yet. Should i make it clear b4 i sign the contract, the annual salary increment terms and 12or13 months salary details? or is it too soon/eager on my part to talk abt increment % and likewise with the Weihnachts/Urlaubs geld?

Cheers.

FYI, The company is located near Bad Sooden Allendorf

http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&clien...=1&ct=title

This question specially for ppl holding masters degree in Mechanical Engg/mech related fields. What was the starting pay package tht u guys received? Havent signed the contract yet, if i could pull my luck through in asking for some concessions then it would be of grt help. N e ways, if u guys think 42k€ is a decent/good pay for the Geographical location/ working field then i would not want to be greedy and will sign the contract asap.

replies welcomed.

the deal is usually that you say something like 43k, they say 40 and then you agree on 41/42, you meet each other in the middle. Personally, I think the deal they have offered you is good. I've had a quick look and the rent in the area where you've said your work will be is very cheap. It's half of what it is in this part of Hessen that's for sure (6 rooms for 450€ is one place I saw, 3/4 rooms for 300something).

Asking re holiday and christmas money is fine, most companies have set policies for this - either they do it, or they don't although if they did I would expect it would be outlined in your contract anyway (it is in mine).

@ Rilana.

Thanks for ur quick reply. From what i checked, its hard to get a Furnished flat/apartment/room in the region. the problem is, most of the houses/apartments that fall around the 400- 550€ rent (warm) are unfurnished. So, imagine, if i have to set everything up afresh like, Stove set, Bed, sofa, Table... then, its gonna hurt badly(financially) during the initial few months.

Called a few brokers from the add from immowelt.de, havent got a +ve feedback yet.

Secondly, unless and untill i stay walking distance from the company, its again gonna cost heavily for the mode of tansport. Cycling distance is fine, but its not an all weather option. Here the bus connections are not good. Infact, there are hardly any proper ones. Ofcourse there are buses, but from my experience they have fixed timings, say once an hour, from 7 am to 6 pm only on mondays to fridays and moreover, they take forever to go from one point to the other. So, the big disadvantage from cities will be the mode of tansport. I hope a car doesnt become a necessity.

Just found a wohnung for 350warm. but no cooking stove.

Crumbs - I went there on a short holiday with my then-girlfriend & since we've been married almost 20 years you can tell home long ago that was.

The Germans have a description of such places "the dog is buried there". Maybe it has improved since! Best of Luck!

Separately: IMHO you are very unlikely to get employer to be nailed down to salary increments in the future - depends on performance in many cases (both yours & theirs)

hmm.

Anyways, i think 2 yrs is at the max that i can survive in a non-english speaking atmosphere. Have had enough, just aiming at gaining experience. Looking forward to moving to an English-speaking land later.

hopefully, i should be able to bargain a better deal with some experience in my bag.

I wouldn't go yet for the future raise nor the would I like it much as an employer, as you are just starting your career and they are not too sure what you will contribute to the place. It would look a bit overly ambitious.

Just check it out and see if you can make it work a year or two and learn what you can in between.

It sounds like you got a pretty decent deal in comparison to your peers, so Congrats!

@ Kersty,

thanks... point noted! Aim=Gain Experience.

w.r.t.the deal, ya, i believe its a pretty decent one too. taking into account that they are willing to help me with setting up the home initially.

Hello ppl,

thanks a lot for ur replies...

So, my salary has been fixed to 42k€/Yr. I recently heard from one of my friend that the Helath insurance is calculated as a % of Grundgehalt. is that correct?

In that case, could i ask my future employer to split my Pay into 36k€ Grundgehalt and 6k€ as Gehaltszulage?? I will be signing the contract shortly.

Is this possible? If this happens then are their any drawbacks? say more tax for Gehaltszulage or something of that sort?

cheers.

Your best bet for this is to check the paper. Or Sperrmüll, a local monthly with personal ads offering everything from DVD players to cars to bikes to available flats. If you go through an agency they'll charge you 2.38 x one month's rent. If you find your place through the above-mentioned avenues, you'll likely save that cost, and you can then throw that toward outfitting your kitchen. Or you may not even need to outfit your kitchen if you find it through the paper.

We had the same dilema on a similar income (for two, though, so I think you're doing quite well). We were able to find a flat in the paper, and the girl moving out needed to sell her kitchen since she was moving into her boyfriend's flat. No realtor fee, cheap kitchen (already installed), and she got to move in with her boyfriend when she wanted (instead of waiting the three months to get out of her lease and then hoping she could unload the kitchen). It worked out for all.

And furnishing a flat doesn't have to be financially crippling if you are thrifty and resourceful. IKEA, sadly, is not a bad place to turn.

Since you're not there yet, maybe someone from your company could mail you a Sperrmüll/paper so you can get an idea of what your options are?

Cool.. where can i get this Spermüll paper?

Most book stores/stationary shops have it. Comes out once a month, I think. We live in a small town, so it covers the region, but between it and the paper we had quite a decent selection to wade through, surprisingly.

@ Bohemka...

thanks Dude... Kuhl tip.

Sperrmüll ... Quoka ... Alles

Hello,

this is in regard with my earlier post quoted,


Any replies in this context will be really helpful.

cheers

I would like to make two points.
1 You are allowed to offset a truly amazing amount of expenditure needed when moving house / job
against tax. Keep every bus ticket, train ticket etc. whatever and everything relating to your previous residence
and setting up a new.
(extra costs of running two homes can be offset up to a period (I forget how long)).
2 The normal method here is that the first six months are "Probezeit" - testing period.
This is followed by a formal interview and you will soon get the feeling as to whether you are useful
to the firm or not.
If you get the thumbs up then ask for more dosh to bring you up to the market rate.
Remember than unless you have fluent German you are at a disadvantage and often less valuable
to your employer than a native speaker.
That being said, there is supposedly a shortage of Engineers in Germany - but only in certain
restricted areas. You are expected "to hit the ground running".

As a "Green" I'm no enthusiast for cars, but I can hardly see how you can set up house in rural Germany without one.
Furnished accom. is not the norm here. But why worry - Ikea, Roller, Domäne, Hüfner etc. have endless
furnishings at all price levels. If you don't want to do the work yourself, there are ways and means!