Advice on getting a proper mental assessment

Can anyone suggest a registered native-quality English speaking psychiatrist here in Munich?

My husband was admitted to hospital with depression, because he tried to harm himself due to stresses, but quickly called me for help. He was taken to hospital and was assessed and advised that he should stay for a few days to take a "time-out" from life. He was free to leave ay any time and it was his own free choice to decide (I know this is true because we saw someone admitted at the same time leave the next day). He agreed because he wanted to get better and wanted to get counselling. The last two days he was on an open ward and making good progess and we talked a lot and things were positive.

On Friday he was moved to Klinikum Universität, but he decided while waiting for the transport that he wanted to go home and move forward by organising regular counselling. He arrived and waited to be seen. After waiting for 5 hours he was finally "assessed" by a doctor through a translator (he his learning German, but not yet up to the complexity of explaining on this level).

They would not let him leave. Also, the doctor admitted that he had not even spoken to the original psychiatrist at the first hospital and had no background other than notes.

I want my husband to get better so I would like to know if anyone can recommend someone here in Munich that I can call? Not just for regular counselling, but also he is alienated by the system, I think, until he has been assessed properly by someone that can understand the English language. This is hampering his recovery. I spoke to the original intern that was translating to the doctor in both English and German, and she did not seem to understand me that well in English, certainly not on a fluent enough level to deal with the importance of this situation.

I am allowed to take my husband out for two hours per day so it must be someone that is near to Central Munich.

Also, there is an American lady that adverties on Toytown as a counselleor, but we tried her a few months back and she never answers the phone or responded to our voice messages.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions you can offer.

You could call the Klinikum Rechts der Isar - the department of psychotherapy is stuffed with good English speakers and there's a range of therapy options available.

I'm not a therapist, but I do work there and everyone is well informed and very good at their jobs.

Karlbauer, Pauls and Eisensehr, Sendlingerstr.
Neurologen-Muenchen.de
Karlbauer and Eisensehr speak excellent English, Pauls is Australian. They can also refer onwards to other English-speaking therapists. Good luck!

I just want to say that I am sorry that you are going through this harrowing experience.

Wishing you and your husband all the best and a lasting recovery.

I would ask my Hausarzt for a referral.

Sincerely,
Fruity

Thanks for all your replies, at least I now have some numbers to call on Monday. Also, many thanks for the private PMs of support and with advice. I think this a great forum.

Rechts der Isar is the original hospital that he was in before getting transferred. We were left without the details of the doctor there who had treated him. The Klinikum Universität is a miserable place to exist. My husband sees a doctor (surrounded by students ... very intimidating) in a single 10 minute session every day and that's it. They won't tell him when he can leave and now they want to get him involved in a clinical trial even though he can't understand the German requirements. The doctor has not asked to see me and is never available so I have no real idea what their plan is, no reassurance. There is no counselling for my husband, just a "How are you today? Have you had any suicidal thoughts today?" 10 minute session.

Obviously, if someone is in danger of doing the same thing again then they should be encouraged to stay, or perhaps forced, but nobody has asked him or me what happened. He did a silly thing and called me straight away for help. Should this not count?

I hope that nobody that reads this ever tries to harm themselves or knows anyone that will, but if you are ever in this situation my advice would be to discharge yourself from the hospital as soon as you can. The hospital that treats you will do this. Then go to your doctor who can help you with medication and finding counselling. If you don't and you end up at Klinikum Universität then you will be sectioned regardless of your circumstances.

Peace to all.

That seems a bit of a sweeping statement? All circumstances are different.

I don't know anything, but it might even be that the current situation is indeed what is best for your husband. It sounds like he is being kept away from any/all of the issues that
caused the onset of this incident.

Sounds like the strategy is just to keep him "away from life" and in a secure enough place that he cannot self-harm. They do say time is a healer, and for many people I suspect
that being discharged too early could be a mistake - especially if it allows them to immediately face the issues that caused the problem.

I am sorry that you are having a tough time, but try and stay relaxed about the situation. Your husband is in a safe place, he is fed and watered, and away from stressful issues.
Hospital is no holiday camp, but also should not be a painful experience either. Get his some good books to read!!

Many times psychiatrists tend to be overcautious because of the few instances where patients have gone to extremes. This means, unfortunately, that there is a tendency to overmedicate and lock up patients right away until they have a chance to get to know the patient better. Only after a period of observation will the docs perhaps allow short excursions out of the locked ward, and eventually a move to an open section where the patients would be free to go outside again or visit the cafeteria and have visitors more often.

The problem is mostly that the staff have no clue who a new patient might be, and how he might react. So they go overboard at first with the security measures. These are in place mostly to protect the staff and other patients, rather than helping the patient himself. Only after a while does the patient start getting the help he really needs.

In most hospitals, there are social workers assigned to every unit to provide liaison services between family members and the institution. Some hospitals even go so far as to have neutral, fully independent ombudsmen available, though Germany is still far behind North America in this respect. I would strongly suggest that you contact the social worker assigned to your husband's unit, and talk the situation over with that person. They can tell you exactly what the procedures are, assist in getting appointments with doctors, and keep you better informed of what various possible next steps might be.


afterthoughts: Has your husband actually been committed, meaning that he really is not allowed to leave at all? Or are the doctors and nurses just being very strong in their opinions that he should stay? If the latter, then you can cause a fuss and take him home. If the former then there must be a paperwork trail, plus some sort of time limit like a week or 30 days after which, assuming he shows no extreme behaviour, he can sign himself out. Did either you or your husband sign any papers when you first went in for an assessment? Get a fluent German speaker to help you figure out what the details of his detainment are. Don't bother contacting any other doctors, since they won't go against the opionion of the doctor on scene.

There is an excellent advice centre in the Volksbad building near Rosenheimer Platz.
They help you to look for a suitable therapist near to where you live after an hourly
assesment at their offices.

They are called MAP (Münchner Arbeitsgemeinschaft für Psychoanalyse e.V.)
Rosenheimer Str. 1 in the Müllerschen Volksbad (2. Floor)
Tel.: 089-2715966

I can only say - give them a try. Not all of them speak English but I am sure they can
get someone to call you back and they have excellent contacts with many therapists
all over Munich. It may not help your husband in his current position but as soon as
he is out of hospital or even if you can get them to see him for the couple of hours
he is allowed out - that may help.

They are very professional and I can highly recommend them.
PM me if you want more information.

In the meantime I hope you get the support you need from the hospital and
hang in there. I am sure he is in capable hands even if not necessarily in an
institution anyone would choose.

JE - Yes maybe it is, but you hit the nail on the head in the second sentence, which is in part where the system falls down because he has had a "session" with the doctor for about 20 mins in an entire week. I think this is wrong. I also think that it is wrong to hold someone against their will, and please remember, my husband could have discharged himself from Rects der Isar the day after, but chose to stay two more days to get the "distance" and time-out. I do agree with a lot of what you say in your post, and certainly he would have gone to friends and not straight back home at that point. I have also fixed work issues so there was no need to stress about that. To hold somebody against their will without a correct assessment in my opinion goes against civil rights. Klinikum don't have the time or inclination to judge people individually, they just have a regime in place that involves tranquilising every day and then starting anti-depressants. It makes no difference to them whether my husband has to stay two weeks or two months, but it obviously matters an awful lot to him because he wants to start getting better. Having said that he is in a safe place. He just has to get though it and tell the doctors what they want to hear.

Thanks for everyones' PMs of support and the posts here on this thread and take care.