No-go zones in Berlin

G'day,

Im arriving in Berlin in a week to live and study for a while which Im pretty excited about. A hear that Berlin is a reasonably safe place but ofcourse every big city has its hot spots. So just wondering if you guys have any tips of dodgy areas or any no go zones in Berlin or F'shain specifically where I will be living. Has anyone had any nasty experiences in terms of their safety in berlin?

Cheers guys

Berlin is generally safe, but if you are not white and/or you don't speak German, (as a general rule) be careful when walking around the streets of districts to the east of Friedrichshain.

well, i do live in the east of f'hain and i cannot agree to FirstCitizen. it's a fact that the east of f'hain adjoins to Lichtenberg, which is a bit dangerous if you get deeper into the district, especially the Weitling-Kiez, but there're districts which are much more dangerous for ppl of a different ethnicity. This is especially Schönhauser Allee in Prenzlauer Berg. No matter what kind of language you speak, i wouldn't go there..^^

I would stay away from FC Dynamo games and the surrounding stadium area before/after games.

I was bumbling around Friederich Jan Ludwig Sports park w/ my son this Sunday & once the game let out there were drunk neo nazi guys throwing up hail hitler signs and shouting racist bullshit all over the place. It sucked. Dynamo plays at Sportforum Hohenschönhausen and Friedrich Ludwig Jahn Sportpark. Better to avoid.

And no, I am not saying all Dynamo fans are neonazi's - they just attract an ugly lot that rears its head after a few drinks and when the Polizei go home.

well, unfortunately you see a lot of dynamo bums these days.. i totally agree to stay away from them!

I know! That's exactly what they are -bums.They dont have jobs or anywhere to go and they just hang around the games and the stadium trying to stir up shit and threaten people. It's pathetic.

schönhauser allee is the most dangerous place on earth true. it could be that the tram hits you if you have dark or white or inbetween coloured skin. or maybe a pram.

in general one should avoid soccer/football games (hertha not that much).

btw, there are about 1000000 threads dealing with this/similar topics.

Depends what you want to avoid. Many people avoid the Steglitz, Lankwitz, Lichtenrade areas as they are simply too boring for words.

err, no. actually i was talking about neo nazis. and i do know that the area around schönhauser allee is steadily becoming a very uncomfortable place to live and walk around. maybe not in daytime, but definitely at night. of course, not everybody has gathered bad experiences and i dont want to misrepresent this area, i just wanted to tell you what i know about some no-go zones..

What experiences have you had that make you say that? I'd be very interested to know.

well, of course it depends on what you look like. some "normal" appearence won't make you a target to them, but if you look a bit more "punk" (when it comes to hairstyle and/or clothes etc) then they'll notice you. daytime is usually no problem, but if it's night and they're in a bigger group, it's likely that they at least try to provoke you and/or shout their slogans and all that. so i'd at least recommend not to walk alone at night.
i cant tell you about any experiences that i have gathered there, but i know that there're some stores, kneipen and pubs where those people like to spend their time.. and some friends of mine have told me what they've seen and experienced..
unfortunately i dont have any english sources for what i'm telling you about, but if anybody is interested in some german texts and/or reports, i could send them to you.

and again, please dont get me wrong, it's not that i have any interest in talking this district down as a whole. i'm just kind of trying to warn you.

Do go ahead and link the German texts / reports here, sounds interesting.

alright then.^^

http://users.blacksec.org/~aiwp/chronik.htm

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/Rechtsex...;art270,2483132

http://www.morgenpost.de/content/2008/04/2...lin/958932.html

http://reifenwechsler.blogspot.com/2008/02...r-berg-und.html

if there's anything you don't understand i'll be glad to help.

oh and let me add that i do LOVE berlin, otherwise i wouldn't live here. my posts somehow sound very negative and that's not the impression that i want to create.

This cracked me up.

Edit: Hmm, after reading your last post I realized this came off too harsh.
But really, the Schönhauser Alle may be many things.
But a no-go zone, it is not.

Do you know anything about the dynamics of Berlin? Frankly it doesn't sound like it, the punks/anti Nazis, are just as provocative and up for a fight as the Nazis.
As you haven't really made it clear so far, perhaps you should now (for the benefit of the person who started this thread), are you a punk yourself, or perhaps you are not white? This information would be useful to put your previous posts in context.

Now that is really funny: Cathi argues with newspaper articles which say that in Friedrichshain happens more neonazi violence than in Prenzlauer Berg (not to mention only Schönhauser Allee area). Then again, have a look at #3, where she states, that Friedrichshin is not that bad - BUT Schönhauser Allee. Please, cathi, this is in fact something I don't understand. Are you right and the newspaper article is wrong or the other way round?

In Friedrichshain the attacks are mostly against punks, as the area where Friedrichshain borders Lichtenberg, there are punks from the first, and neonazis from the latter. A bit similar (but not as problematic as eastern Friedrichshain in my opinion) is NORTH of Schönhauser Allee, where Weißensee is not far away.

good morning, guys. now listen to me, please. first of all i didnt mean to offend anybody or say something which is not true.

these articles that i posted before do mention friedrichshain, because (of course) there're parts that might be a bit more shabby and therefore not as nice as other parts. but mostly they're about prenzlauer berg. it's not about who's right and who's wrong. there are areas in every city in the world (and also berlin) that have very beautiful, peaceful areas and some that are the opposite. when i started to react to this thread, i said a very exaggerated sentence which was already quoted in here. again, i didnt mean to offend, it was just something which i used as some kind of stylistic means, as emphasis.

i do know things about the dynamics of berlin, although i have never been attacked myself. but that doesn't mean that violence doesnt exist. i used to be a punk, but by that time i lived in a small town, close to the polish border and back then i got attacked. now i do know that punks and nazis provoke each other and that is a reason why i wouldnt count myself into that group of people anymore. i still believe in the ideals they believe in (like anti-racism, anit-nationalism etc), but i dont believe in fighting. i still look a bit "alternative" concerning my haircut, cloths and all that.

Personally, I find the city fairly safe. However, you have to use your best judgement.

There are places in/around Neukolln and Kreuzberg that I (as a female) wouldn't go alone after dark. The same can be said about SH allee and P'berg. That being said - I have been there after dark wandering around with other people and felt perfectly safe.

In otherwords, use your best judgement - if you get out somewhere and don't like it - don't go there by yourself, and don't be a target. If you must go, it's the same as always - don't have your MP3 player blaring in your ears, pay attention to those around you, and walk like you own the world...

this kind of thing riles me to be honest. I'm going to have to bite my lip somewhat and try and remain rational (although i'm getting sick of logging onto this forum to get the news on Berlin, only to find yet another thread on no-go areas, as TobyG mentioed already).

What i wanted to say was, would it be possible to ask for a modicum of objectiveness to be applied to replies on this topic - specifically, in relation to people who feel compelled to share their "experiences"? Because there is waaay too much personal experinece going on, rather than people painting a true and fair view (for want of a better expression) of what living in Berlin is like.

If you come from a village in the Himalayas and you have been a goat herder all your life, then Berlin may certainly be a frightening place (as any large city would). On the other hand if you have any bit of street savy & general cop-on then its fine. Of course no matter what city you are talking about, you will always be able to find someonw who, through bad luck/wrong-place-at-wrong-time or whatever, has had a bad experience however the point is whether this is the rule or the norm.

in retrospective you're absolutely right and i get the point. i already tried to weaken my posts, because they really are to personal. i'm sorry.

^^ I'm sorry if it sounded harsh, you seem like a genuine person. My only point is that one can't paint a negative view of an area and "blacken" its name becuase of personal experience. Unfortunately, sub-cultures of all types will come in for a bit more flack then odinary joe soaps, whether its people who dress in drag/punks/dandys whatever. Its just that narrow mindedness breeds contempt for freedom of expression. It may not however, be reflective of experiences of the general public.

Anyway, as you may have gathered - there have been many posts on this topic already so some of us are perhaps a bit wearisome of this conversation (also explains my shorter than-normal fuse)

What? I live in that area and it is definitely not dangerous and not a Nazi area. I am not white nor is my wife. We walk the area very late at nights during the evenings and early mornings (specially me), never got any problem at all. And I know the city pretty well and I've been to the no-go zones many times, I would not advise non-experienced people to go to Marzahn and I would recommend to be careful in these areas: Schöneweider, Lichtenberg, Treptow, north of P.berg (Greifswalderstr north), Hellersdorf.

I don't want to think you are confusing Punks with Nazis.

The most dangerous thing that can happen to you in Schönhauser Allee is that a mom hits you with a pram.

So very true...You have to watch them!

Hey guys,

thanks everyone for their posts. Common sense and general awareness is the rule of thumb for anywhere you you go but its good to hear peoples thoughts. Go easy on Cathy also, in the first post regarding safety in Berlin I did ask if anyone had encountered any bad experiences so in that regard she was just answering my question. Anyway I have learnt a bit from reading evertones posts so thanks to all - Matt

I agree.

I think people from the outside tend to think, that the biggest city and capital has to be the dangerous one.

That is not really the case in Germany i would say. Berlin doesn't stand out compared to other cities in Germany, almost the opposite. Other bigger cities have a worse crime record and in smaller towns you're more endangered to fall victim of racial violence.

AFAIK Frankfurt led the crime statistics Germany wide for years now. I've been to F-hain and P-Berg frequently, it doesn't feel threatening compared to other places. My awarenesslevel is much higher on a night out in my hometown (Düsseldorf). I've had a few random run ins that left me beaten up, once in hospital. And i'm neither a loudmouth, have my political affiliation on my sleeve or belong to any minority.

It's all about situational awareness and it's useless to brand whole parts of cities, the worst acts i came across were early morning in the 'nicest' part of the town. Just recently two guys were pulled out of their car, beaten to a pulp and had their car stolen on our most prestigious (Chanel, Prada etc.) shopping street. At night you will run into different kind of people, you can never generalize.

It isn't true that the Schonhauser Allee isn't actually all safe. It's safe south of Eberswalder Strasse but around it and especially north of that it can actually be pretty dodgy especially at night. I was waiting for a tram once and speaking in English on my mobile and a drunk yob gave me a mouthful for being a foreign student. I also saw a woman getting her handbag nicked at a cafe in broad open daylight by a group of yobs. You have to be streetwise and careful not to meet anyone's gaze (especially local lads) or you can get attitude. It is a lively part of Berlin but Charlottenburg it aint.

I'd love it if someone gave me hell for being 'foreign'. I have a German passport lol. It would be totally hilarious.
That being said I've lived in P-berg for almost 2 years and have never been given grief, even in the northern parts. I find parts of Charlottenburg more rough (off the Ku'damm, for example...soooo scuzzy)

"pretty dodgy"
well, I suppose Halle is much safer than scary schönhauser...

schonhauser is hell

if you go there they will rape you decapitate you and then rape you again

I'm ok since I'm always packing my uzis

PLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEEEE if anything berlin is gay as hell, all you have to do is raise your voice a little and everyone looks at you, everyday I see guys kissing and holding hands and your worried about neonazis?

lots of punks here 2, they tend to hand around in specific spots and they have a bunch of dogs and they always ask u for coins, yesterday I saw this really attractive girl wearing a tank top and army boots but they always have to fuck it up by shaving part of her head and painting the remaining hair a million different colors

wtf? did you wake up one morning and say 'I'm cute let's find ways to fuck this up' and then you see chubby ugly as sin girls with a million clinique facial lotions and lipsticks and shampoos ahhahaa life is ironic as fk

Yeah, stay away from schonehauser... somebody might ask you for money. How frightening!!!
Just when you thought it couldn't get worse,
sometimes DRUNK PEOPLE are on that street! Sometimes they even YELL!

how chilling!

You guys are ridiculous.

Right. So we just moved to F'hain 6 months ago from our apartment of 3 years exactly across from the Jahn Sportpark. The infamous Schoenhauser Allee area, north of Eberswalder Str. Too dangerous? For our wallets, yes. For our fear of marauding babies joyriding in their buggies? Hell yes! Because my middle-class Canadian mom was comfortable walking around at 1AM? GET ME OUTA THERE! In short, having lived for a time in most of Europe's capitals, Berlin is one of the safest ANYWHERE, and P'berg is cosy beyond belief. My Danger-o-meter starts to tick a little more here in my Warschauer patch of F'hain — and that's only because I'm getting on in years and F'hain is a bastion of youth, doing all those Youth Things that I no longer do, holding up a mirror to my greying temples and wrinkled visage... SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME.

Welcome to urban living.

to those who refer to charlottenburg as the pinnacle of peace, quiet and safety - a couple of points. first, it actually has one of the higher crime statistics in the city - mainly due to tourist crime/theft/assult in and around ku'dam and second, it is home to one of Berlin's biggest red light districts. I think you are better off using "dahlem" or "zehlendorf" for your comparisons to peaches & creme/snoozeville.

I am annoyed by people trying to over simplify the argument by saying "berlin? unsafe? what?!?" No, it's not Kingston or Detroit or Bogota but the city's crime rate and crime targets have changed and risen over the 7 years that I've been here. For example, the number of racial, religious & politically motivated crime is going up - this is significant to note and stand up to as more and more immigrants of different color, religion and background come into the city!

LOL
Yeah this is silly.
I lived near Schönhauser Allee for 2 years and now I live (temporarily) in Zehlendorf. Safety wise...I cannot tell the difference. I've never had any problems in either. Schönhauser Allee is just as safe as Zehlendorf. In fact, Zehlendorf may be slightly more dangerous due to the sense of self-entitlement around here. Rich people get PISSED OFF very, very quickly

Double post..sorry!

I would feel way more creeped out in one of those isolated "plattenbau" areas than I ever have in any of the central city districts.

I find Berlin incredibly safe however I have come here from living in London where everyone seems to be stabbing each other these days so that could have something to do with it!!!

I am not a huge fan of Schoenhauser Allee but I don't think it's majorly unsafe. Basically anywhere where there are that many bars in one space tends to have a higher rate of not always so nice antics. I think you can sometimes feel a little more aware of the people around you just because it is often so busy compared to alot of other areas.

Ps. I live in Friedrichshain and love it and have never had any trouble but than again I didn't have any in my 7 years in London so maybe so far i've been lucky?!

I moved from one of the rougher parts of south London to Berlin, and this place is a comparative eden, believe me. The only thing that pisses me off is the Punks, begging outside U-Bahn stations when IMO most of them come from nice middle class backgrounds.

Hi
I live on Shonhauser Allee. I am really surprised by the warnings given about this street. To me, it seems incredibly safe and middle class. There are more children in Prenzlauer Berg than anywhere else in Germany. How rough can it be. I would agree that the Shonhauser Allee station area is dodge, but I just dont go there. But literaly the street behind it is plush. There seems to be a social divide though, and I would find an apartment on the south side of train lines. But Berlin is safe. Dont worry so much.

Cathi why should you have to apologize for your feelings on the subject ?

This is a message board not a politically correct forum where we should hide our true feelings on something simply because it might offend someone. If people feel they have a sense of entitlement to only be exposed to what they feel is the appropriate way think, feel, speak then they are living in a fantasy land.

I've experiences some unpleasant things in Berlin myself, mostly in one neighborhood. There are indeed worst places than others, it's all relative to what your use to. I personally an not use to stepping in dog shit and looking at graffiti, nor do I enjoy masses of skinheads expressing themselves my letting their dogs shit everywhere and just generally being being a freaken public nuisance so I moved away from P'berg, and in general avoid Alexanderplatz.

Funnily enough, I found the people in Kreuzberg to be pretty cool. Lots of young kids expressing themselves, artist, musicians, bohemian :-) and there wasn't too much dog shit or graffiti.

Now I'm pretty happy in Charlottenberg out by the RBB offices. When I want excitement I go to Mitte, and the places I go to are full of people who either work for a living or are doing something worth while other than take up spce and express themselves in a way that is acceptable in public.

For a small town lad like myself, Seeing the rattling Smackheads/tramps/punks on the S-bahn at night was quite an experience. But i wouldnt say iever felt unsafe, probably because im a white male aged 18-40 with short hair, but whatever

from my own personal experience (first as a US soldier walking around town in uniform and now, carrying a doublebass around town in the dark by myself...etc) i guarantee you that most cities in the US are way, way, way more dangerous than any place here in Berlin!

me and a female-Swedish work-colleague were talking about this just the other day, and both think that you really have to go out of your way to get your ass kicked here...

just keep away from any loud, obnoxious groups drunks or turkish teenagers and you should be fine

'course, we all know that 'mericans are naturally paranoid from watching so much tv and car commercials...