Smokers clubs and membership status

So we are nearing exactly 6 months since Bavaria's controversial anti-smoking legislation went into effect. My goal honestly isn't to rekindle the smoldering remnants of earlier debates, as I think both sides can agree that is a horse that has been beaten to death. I'm just a big fan of surveys, so I thought it might be fun to see what effect this 'smoking club' system has had, and how many of such clubs people have joined.

So, huddled masses of TT, fill out the survey.

I will not spend my cash in any place that allows smoking indoors. There are enough places where you can enjoy an evening without the stink, the burning eyes and throat etc. I'd rather see these places shut down as well, or at least have their licences revoked as it is blatantly flouting the law via a loophole but, hell, in the end, I don't care that much because enough of my favourite haunts are now smoke free that I am happy.

hmmm interesting, I didn't expect this. I thought we'd see two large groupings really. I really didn't expect I'd belong to more than most

Now that the beer gardens are open it's kind of irrelevant until autumn.

Not if you like staying out past 11pm...

not really irrelevant, especially when it rains (like saturday evening) (edit or what Hazza said). I wouldn't have minded going to the Eurovision thing on saturday but it was held in a smoking bar so I didn't. Instead a group of us non-smokers had a fantastic evening in a smoke-free bar and had the pleasure of the cutest and friendliest waitress I've had the pleasure of being serviced by in a long time.

I would like the number of smoking clubs to stay the same.

damn you lane. I read "smokers club" and thought it was a different kind of smoker.

bourns.

I suppose non-smokers are also voting in this poll? (I did.) What would really be interesting would be to know what just the smokers think, coz obviously the non-smokers aren't likely to be hanging out in smokers' clubs.

I'm a pretty tolerant non-smoker - it doesn't bother me much if others are smoking around me. But I'm against smokers' clubs because I object to being required to provide my personal details in order to "become a member" just so I can go in and have a drink. Then there are places like the Alter Ofen where we had Tuesday Drinks recently, which is a smokers' club after 11 pm, so if you're still enjoying your drink at 11, you either have to sign up for membership, or else drink up quick and leave.

Why would anyone, read you pathetic anti-smoking nazis, even care if the number of smoking clubs increase or decrease if you aren't going to visit them anyway? Have you ever heard of supply and demand?

Does ER know about this?

Errrrrm...I do.

My regular regular local is non smoking still and looks like staying so.
Of the ten bars that I've last been in though, 8 are smoking.

Most of the remaining non smoking venues in GBV (can count them on one hand) are planning to go to smoking.

I'm officially in about six clubs I think, some of the bars just let it slide I guess, but I'm not mentioning no names on here.

I go out of my way to avoid smokers clubs. Even have given up a few places I did like because they now require a membership as they are smokers clubs. I will spend my money elsewhere.
We were out friday night, scouting places for a Hash House Harriers event, the last place became a smokers haven after 11, we were only there about 30 min into this time, and I came home and had to shower! I stunk from the smoke.
I hope they go out of their way to close the loophole, and we can all breathe better for it.

Like bad TV, lets ban it all. Don't like it, go elsewhere. Want your favorite haunt not to turn into a smoker's club then visit it more often and spend more money there. Supply and demand.

I'm a smoker and I've only been in one smoking club since the ban was introduced, the Green Room, and that was accidental. I don't see that there is any problem at all now. There are loads of places where people can smoke and loads where it's not permitted. Now you the consumer have the choice and lots of it. I'm amazed that so many people are still bitching and moaning about it. Some people really are never fucking happy.

She serviced me as well

Well, just possibly because you might want to visit them if they hadn't been turned into smoking clubs.

Earlier this year there was a TT Mexican night out with a big crowd which was going to be at Joe Penas - until we found out it had been turned into a "smoking club", so the event was moved elsewhere. Pity - I really wanted to go to Joe Penas again.

Non smokers who definitely want to be in a non smoking venue had their chance to keep them non smoking by spending enough money in them.
But they didn't.
Perhaps market forces and social trends will make more and more premises change to non smoking in the future.
As was like errrrrrrm, already happening in Munich.

So every place should be forced by law to cater specifically to your wants, just in case you might want to grace them with your presence??

Hazza: Well, most of the smokers' bars that I walk past look like the kind of place I wouldn't frequent anyway. And of course, bars can do what they like. I just think it's a pity that some bar owners now feel the need to exclude a subset of their existing clientele.

They're not excluding you, they weren't before the ban and they are not now. You're absolutely welcome to go there. You're excluding yourself.

It's amazing that prior to the ban the biggest set of whingers belonged in the non-smoking camp and now after the ban it is the same group that are still moaning.

Clearly smokers are just much more laid back chilled out people.

have to say keydeck you have a point - what a bunch of whingers. I don´t smoke but might start again just so I wont be labelled in with the whiney brigade. As smoking pubs are in the minority and are mainly “local� places, why are people still moaning? If it´s not somewhere they would ever frequent WHY DO THEY CARE???

I for one thought that the smokers club idea was a great compromise, it´s a great idea that people can choose what sort of environment they can socialise in. Hopefully this means that the smoking ban wont have the negative effect on bars and restaurants that it did in Ireland. My local only allows smoking after 10pm, which actually works out really well as it means its waaaay less stinky that it was before.

Any ideas of the smokers club idea is going to be revoked at all? Keep hearing conflicting reports….

Made me laugh out loud that did. Thanks

OK, they aren't excluding me, but they're making things more complicated. Still, I suppose that goes for the smokers who want to go there too. And I expect a lot of non-smokers won't want to go to a smokers' bar coz they'll be thinking it'll be full of smokers and the air will be unbreathable. And some smokers will be avoiding the regular non-smoking bars and flocking to the smokers' bars instead. Kinda like a smoking apartheid system.


I never whinged before the smoking ban. In fact I reckon I'm more laid back and chilled out than a lot of smokers I know. I'd be perfectly happy if they reversed the smoking ban. It's the segregation I don't like.

How about smokers clubs that have outside tables? Do they serve you even if you aren't a member? Roosevelt's around the corner from work "proudly" announced that they are a smokers club, the attitude put me off so they won't see my money.

Why? They're doing exactly what they've done since the day you set foot in this country 30 years ago or whatever it was, allowed smoking. You're the one who is making things complicated.


Sorry GT, but you've clearly got not clue whatsoever about the reality of the situation. I don't know any smokers who are avoiding the now non-smoking bars. And I know a LOT of smokers. They all just seem to be getting on with it. Still going to the bars and restaurants that they like and simply not smoking in them. As I indicated earlier, all the issues seem to be coming from the non-smokers.

I am long-time and proud smoker, and now i find it difficult to find places where smoking is allowed.
Plus, the non-smoking clubs stink like armpits after a couple of hours.

Perhaps you should wash more often.

quite interesting, i m a non smoker and I prefer when going out "drinking" to be in a bar where they permit smoking. ok the only problem with that now is there are no more or hardly anymore non- smokers so the air is worse than ever but nevertheless... a bar is a bar

Probably the most sensible words spoken on the entire subject.

@ Lizard King :http://www.raucherclub-muc.de/lokale.html

I'd like to know for what reasons people clicked "I would like to see the number of smokers clubs...Decrease". Why? What benefit would a reduction in numbers bring personally to you?

Well there is one fairly obvious scenario:

You used to go to a place that was frequented by both non-smokers and smokers, but now it's a smoking club the air quality has got worse, so you don't go there any more. Voting with your feet, and with your wallet.

Having just moved out of Munich, I don't go to many of the places I used to go to anyway, but I'm damned if I'll spend money in a smokers club anywhere.

Well, if all the smokers are happily complying with the smoking ban and going to non-smoking bars, there can't be much demand for "smoking clubs", so how come they're sprouting up everywhere?

Deary me. I said I don't know any smokers who are avoiding the non-smoking bars. That is not the same as saying that the smokers are only going to non-smoking bars.

Because it's quite obvious your conclusions are wrong. The bars make these kind of decisions based on normal market forces. They obviously dictate that it's better for the business to become a smoking bar - normally it's a financial gain, but it could also be to avoid noise complaints from neighbours.

And the control of whether it really is a private smokers club gets weaker and weaker.
Was in a bar last night and it was just write you name on the list and you're done.
Apparently a cheezy drinking dive on the Müllerstrasse now has a member called Erich Honnecker.

There was an article in one of the UK papers this week about how everyone in Europe is sticking to the smoking bans.
Didn't mention Bavaria for some reason...

It's all a US Republican conspiracy to discredit Obama...

Well, I wasn't going to get into this debate, coz it really isn't the most important thing in my life. But somehow I did get drawn in, and then something strange and wonderful happened - I found myself getting Keydecked for the first time ever in my TT existence. So I was just being contentious to draw out the experience and enjoy it to the full.

Maybe I should give the smoking bars a try...

For what it's worth, I think there's a good balance in Munich. Common-sense is prevailing, non-smokers can go to a non-smoking pub if they so choose, smokers can go to a smoking pub if they so choose. Pubs that feared going under can make a few more quid hopefully from allowing smoking.

Everyone should be happy.

How long it's gonna last I don't know, but I love smoking in pubs.

And smokers can go in non smoking pubs and go outside to smoke.
And non-smokers can go in smoking pubs and not bitch about it.



Report in the SZ yesterday that half the central pubs in Augsburg are now smoking.
The council isn't doing anything about it and the leader of the CSU fraktion in the Landtag says they are not going to change the law.

Why can't I change my vote in the poll - as with many things in life, the reality has changed - am now a member of two more clubs since I voted so the statistics don't reflect reality... and I suspect I'm not the only one!

My only reservation about the smoking clubs stems from the thinking behind the ban in the UK - it's an employment law issue, so that people working in pubs don't have to inhale secondary smoke. But as with so many things, unless you care deeply about an issue, you go with the flow rather than taking a moral stand - so I smoke and the poor bar staff end up inhaling my fumes. Sorry guys - but that's just the way it is!

It's not an employment issue because


. From an April 2008 survey. Source

There is a far more subtle, ulterior motive behind all this. It's to do with Scientology, the Jews, gays, ethnic deviants, 911 and oil.

aye, but it is impossible for a non-smoker to go into a smoking establishment and not smoke (passively).

That's a bit sweeping OG. They could take a gas mask. Then at least the non-smoker wouldn't breath in The Death Fumes and the smoker would also benefit. The gas mask would render their insistent whining inaudible