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German letter writing: The opening greeting

Sehr geehrter Herr / geehrte Frau, etc..

Toytown Germany > Discussion forum > Germany-wide > Life in Germany
profundo
I am sending out some letters and need it to be as professional as possible.

If it is addressed to a man it is (for example)
"Sehr geehrter Herr Kiesel"
What if it is a Dr. Markus Keisel do I include the full title? or leave out the 'Herr'?
"Sehr geehrter Herr Dr. Markus Keisel"

What is the appropriate greeting for a female?

I also have several first names that I am not sure are male or female and need some help from those who know.

Markus = male
Andreas = male? I know of another Andreas that is a guy
Renate = ?
Sabine = ?
Dorte (with oomlaut over the 'o') =
Dagmar = ?
Axel = male? I only know of Axel Rose ph34r.gif

Thanks for the help.
prof-
Keydeck
Renate = female
Sabine = female
Dorte (with oomlaut over the 'o') = female
Dagmar = female

The rest you got right. Go to the top of the class Prof.

QUOTE
What is the appropriate greeting for a female?

How you doin? (with affected NY accent and emphasis on the "you")
Kza
Sehr geehrter Herr
Sehr geehrte Frau
Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren
interplanetjanet
Don't forget "Sehr geehrter Herr Prof. Dr..." wink.gif
koala
Sehr geehrter Herr Professor Doktor Dingsbums...
Sehr geehrte Frau Professor Doktor Dingsbums...

Use ALL available titles!
jml
Don't forget though that a Professor is an additional title, i.e. not all Dr(s) are Professors. Probably obvious but stated just in case. Also, all the Andreas named people I know seem to be of the male variety.

Good Luck!

PS: "how you doin? is not bad..."Sup?" also works in a pinch.
profundo
Thanks guys. smile.gif
MadAxeMurderer
So what about Freiherr, Nobel prize winner, Prof, Dr, and chairman of German tiddlywinks club?
kitkat64
Andreas is definitely a man's name(that's my boyfriend's name and about 50% of the guys that I work with are named Andreas too!)
Badger
Use titles if the guy has them; they're proud of them. But use the abbreviated forms: "Sehr geehrter Herr Dr. Kiesel".
And make sure you don't spell his name several different ways (Kiesel / Keisel) tongue.gif
yomama
"Sehr geehrter Prof. Whatever' or Sehr geehrte Dr. Dingsbums (for a female) is good enough. Using more than one title is ridiculous.
UrbanAngel
However, if it's a Rechtsanwalt, they become anonymous :

Sehr geehrter Herr Rechtsanwalt,
Sehr geehrte Frau Rechtsanwalt, (surely Rechstanwältin though??)
Katrina
No you use all available titles up until a certain point as the gold standard.
The easiest way I find to remember is by using the full title of Porsche.
Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG is the full company title.
If Ferdi was still alive and I wanted to write him a letter, I would have to write "Sehr geehrter Herr Dr. Ing. Porsche" to be completely correct but I'd probably leave the "Ing." out (although the gent formerly known as Herr Indoors still gets letters with that in). Remember, if it is likely that they have worked to get that title, then they will be proud of that fact. Leaving it out is very rude.
Using "Herrn" is somewhat old-fashioned now (although correct).
Some titles can be left out (e.g. Bürgermeister, Pfarrer, Präsident, Vorstand) unless you believe that the person being written to would be mortally offended by its' omission.
"Sehr geehrte Frau Abgeordnete", "Sehr geehrter Herr Ministerialrat" and "Sehr geehrter Herr Oberbürgermeister" should however be used as this is the normal form. Note that in such cases, the surname is not used.
"Professor" is an unusual one as it should be included in adresses but can be omitted in a "sehr geehrte" phrase. Why? Just look at a German Ausweis. The "Dr." is always included and forms a fixed part of the name, the "Professor" is a job title and thus can be omitted such as in the case above with "Bürgermeister" etc. If you do choose to use "Professor", well I'd usually write it in fully so "sehr geehrter Frau Professorin Müller" but "Frau Prof. Dr. Müller, Hansastr. 12, 80699 München". Note: "Professorin" unless she is Head of Women's studies of something ha ha.
In terms of Edeltitel, well then it is slightly more complicated. "Sehr geehrte Gräfin Bismarck" or "Sehr geehrter Baron Greifenklau" is the form to use, even when "von" or "ten" etc. forms a part of the name as in "Gräfin von Bismarck". "Von" is the lesser title and thus falls away in the title phrase, it is still there in the address line though.
Good luck
Katrina
Jimbo
Herrn is old fashioned? So in this sentence:
"Ich beglaubige hiermit...Unterschrift des mir von Person bekannten Herrn so und so" I could use Herr and still be right?
Katrina
Jein. "Sehr geehrter Herrn Bloggs" is old-fashioned. "Herr" is a weak masculine noun and therefore it is correct to add the "n" and in that sentence I would certainly put it in, but because of the regular usage of "Herr" without the "n" by people who should know better wink.gif it is often considered old-fashioned. It is not, however, incorrect. I've just checked it in my Hammer's Grammar to make sure though!

Katrina
Jimbo
Ah yes, "Hammer's German Grammar and Usage" - There are three rules in life: 1. Use Hammer's GG&U for all your grammar needs. 2. Never play a game with a Jewish man for money. 3. Never start a land war in Asia.
In this instance at least two out of three of those rules applies.
MadAxeMurderer
Actually I know somebody who had a Dr Graf. as boss. Assuming his name was Helmut Kohl which it wasn't he should be adressed as:

Graf Kohl Dr Helmut.

Now imagine if he was a Prof Fr. Ing. to boot ?

I guess we have:

Graf Prof. Kohl Dr Ing. Helmut

I England you have lots of General Sir flying around, and I guess the odd Prof. Sir
Iceberg Slim
@Katrina

Any idea why is Herrn considered old-fashioned? Grammar-wise Herr only exists in the nominative.
Katrina
Iceberg, no. Do you write to "he" (nominative) or to "him" (accusative)?
I learnt "Herrn" at school and then had to unlearn it (our books were from the 1960s).
Katrina
Jeeves
Interesting. I hadn't heard of the use of "Herrn" in the oblique cases being old-fashioned. I'd guess it's similar to the usage gaining ground in English of the nominative in phrases like "for you and I" (eugh!)
Kat
Some Germans can take the correct 'Anrede' thing even too far for other Germans. This example was making the rounds a while back. This was a letter to an insurance company about getting a cheaper offer for car insurance. In it, the guy directs the insurance company on the correct way to address him:
QUOTE
Ich bin Graf und Markgraf, (Conde de Velasco und Marque's de Salazar) Zu dem bin ich göttlichen Geblüts, da ich mit der Famile des früheren Aga Kahn verwandt bin, der wie Sie wissen ein Gott war. Verständlich, daß ich auch göttlich bin. Die Anrede für mich, "Ihre Hochwohlgeboren und göttliche Gnaden" Don Carlos H. von Velasco y Conde de Velasco und Marques de Salazar. Ich bitte Sie deshalb in Mir eine VI Person zu sehen, die mit allen Ehren zu behandeln ist
The answer from the insurance company is perfect:
QUOTE
Guten Tag Ihre Hochwohlgeboren und göttliche Gnaden Don Carlos H. von Velasco y Conde de Velasco und Marques de Salazar,
wir nehmen Buzug auf Ihr Schreiben vom 03.12.97 und freuen uns natürlich sehr darüber, in Ihrer göttlichen Gnade Berücksichtigung gefunden zu haben.
Bedauerlicherweise können wir Ihnen keinen Tarif nennen, der Ihres Standes würdig und einem Gott gerecht werden würde.
In tiefer Demut und mit der Gewißheit, versagt zu haben verbleibt
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

cool.gif
Kza
Also bear in mind that Austrians take titles etc. much more seriously than in Germany. When writing to someone with a title in Austria, take special care to write the title carefully or offense could be caused.
Jeeves
That reminds me of a true story when I was applying for a job in Austria. They had an application form and it included a box "Titel". So I scratched my head for a while as to what this could possible mean and in the end entered "Herr".

They killed themselves laughing when I turned up at the interview, but I still got the job.

The strange thing was that they then pushed the point, so I gave in and said OK, I'm a B.A. Not important to me but obviously to them. So then they got hundreds of business cards printed for me with the "B.A." BEFORE my name tongue.gif
profundo
It's been touched on sort of so I will say it for the record.

"Sehr geehrter Herr Dr. Markus Keisel" is not as right as
"Sehr geehrter Herr Dr. Keisel", which is what it ended up being. No first name.

@ Jeeves. What happens when you have several degrees? Do you just get the highest put by your name? ie: Dr.

I have BM, MM, and a Certificate Masters Degree. I guess I could be "Herr BMMMCMD profundo" which sounds like Roman Numerals.
Or better yet, just "Herr MM profundo"
So just call me profundo2000 I guess. tongue.gif
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