Leaving Germany after residing here illegally

Hello,

I am an American living in Germany illegally for a little over a year now. I am going to be flying to New York to visit some friends and will be staying there for a couple of months or more, but I need/want to be able to return to Germany. My job is here, my girlfriend is here, my friends are here, etc. What will they do to me when I leave to go to New York with an expired visa. Your reponses are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Bobby

Seems like a stupid question to me illegal is illegal you will be hung drawn and quatered.

when I left a few weeks ago, I had to go through passport control at the airport on the way to London. I gave them my passport but forgot my residence permit. He asked me what I've been doing in germany for a year. Oops, I said, here is my residence permit. He smiled and let me pass.

Good luck leaving. They may not let you out. You should get registered today so that you can leave and return - legally.

Don't try to register now- you won't be able to without some sort of valid residence permit, which you obviously aren't going to be able to get now. Your passport was scanned when you entered the Schengen area by plane and will also be scanned when you leave, thus the next time you enter the Grenzpolizist will know and can keep you from re-entering Germany. When flying out this time, once they see when you entered Schengen, they will then look for a residence permit and when they see it was over 90 days ago that you entered Schengen and when they see that you don't have one, or an expired one, I doubt they would try to keep you from leaving, but entering again could be a very different story as the discrepancy will be noted in the Schengen-wide system.

I can only quote from a similar experience a friend of a friend had. South African National, in London on a green card, company goes bust so visa automatically turns into a three month tourist visa, resident for over a year, caught, exported and banned from entering UK for two years. His Girlfriend had to move to Capetown.

Of course, London isnt Schengen, but Im guessing the rules are similar. Im also guessing that you will NOT be able to get back into Schengen once you have left with an expired Visa.

If I were you, Id get me to the US embassy molto pronto and try and sort this out before you leave. Youll probably be liable for at least a fine, but once youre out it could take years to get back in.

How did you manage to live here for a year on an expired Visa? Werent you registered with the Einwohnermeldeamt? If not, thats going to cost you a sack of $$$ in fines too. Having said that, it took the Ausländeramt 13 years to realise my registered Passport had expired (of course I had replaced it twice before they asked me about it)

Also be thankful that youre a Yank trying to get back to Europe - A European doing this in the US really would be in deepest shit.

andy M

What you're doing is illegal and you deserve to be banned from entering the Schengen zone. You abused your privileges. You say you're working, but since you are here illegally, you probably aren't paying taxes.

I have some sympathy for folks who overstay while on an extended vacation, multiple trips, etc., but it would totally make sense for the government to restrict your entry privileges for a time.

You may be arrested, fined, and/or barred for a period of time.

Bring cash with you or have access to an ATM card you can use:
It's interesting to note that the latest US consular information sheet for Germany was updated April 23, 2008, to include the following statement:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1123.html



Actually, a European doing this in the US would have no problem leaving the country (they could have troubles coming back, but not necessarily, as the I94 processing is so archaic and full of errors). There are no exit controls.

true they dont care how you leave as long as you do leave, never ever got a leaving stamp in my passport from the US ! they just take that lil "green" card off you and off you go. (quite ironical that its green isnt it?)

How many hands is that horse you're on exactly?

Not sure how to offer advice my friend but i would definitely try to talk to either the US Consulate or someone in the know informally.

If you march in the door and declare yourself illegal then you have immediately started a papertrail that will follow you.

It may very well be that the poster will leave with no troubles. It may be that he is fined.
He just needs to be prepared to know that it might not be easy.

Contacting the Consulate or an attorney is a good idea.

To reduce the risk of getting caught, one is probably better exiting from somewhere else in the Schengen zone (not from a German airport).

The Consulate doesn't just revise the Consular Information Sheet for the fun of it. That paragraph about overstays, fines, etc. was added a few weeks ago, likely in response to an increase in incidents AmCits experienced leaving Germany.

It really isn't that hard to go through the official channels and get legal permission to work here as a US citizen. It's a pain, it's bureaucratic, but it's not insurmountable.

So, you're saying that there is no way around the fine and being banned for a year or more? I would have gotten all this figured out but I came here and I was naive about what I had to do to become legal. I lived with a German family before moving here who never told me anything about visas and I had never travelled to another country before so I didn't think of it. It was never my attention to actually stay, I was here on vacation and there was a mix up, my friend who had bought plane tickets told me that mine expired and it hadn't, and in the meantime I built up a life here whether I wanted to or not. Since then I've had no money and I couldn't get out. And as for the working thing, I meant my band, which is not really something I would be paying taxes for. Surely this has happened before and there is a way to fix it, I am not a criminal.

Unfortunately for you, ignorance of the law will not be accepted as an excuse.

But an illegal alien/immigrant ... it´s highly unlikely though that you´ll be treated by German authorities the way undesired foreigners are in your home country:

I understand that, I was just explaining the situation. And that didn't really answer my question. Are there ways around this or not? I don't mind the fines, I could somehow get the money together, what I am worried about is being seperated from the ones I love for a year or more. I am not looking to be lectured here, the situation is what it is, and I came for help. I am well aware that I should have done it differently.

Honestly, I don't know what fines you would face.

But if you were to go and see the authorities now, then there's a pretty good chance that you would be deported immediately and given a timeframe in which you are not permitted to return. I've known that to happen to a couple of people.

You have a number of choices. Some of them might include:
1) Attempt to get a residence permit by putting yourself at the mercy of the Ausländerbehörde. However, unless you have a real job lined up, the chances of something being approved are very low. You also risk being deported, arrested, or fined at the time you show up at the Ausländerbehörde.
2) Take your chances and leave the country, hoping you won't get caught. Flying out of a German airport, though, will definitely subject you to scrutiny. The last couple of times I flew out of Germany, the Bundespolizei officer was very careful about looking for a residence permit when seeing the old entry stamp on my passport. There are methods of travel that are subject to less scrutiny than air travel.
3) Hire an attorney to help you work through this.

Note that your 90 days in any rolling 180 day period does not start over just by leaving and reentering the Schengen zone.

Best of wishes.

I appreciate the help, thank you so much.

Abschiebehaft ...

What about marriage, or leaving from a non EU country such as Switzerland? I don't want to face jail time for not having enough money to leave the country... but now I already have a flight back to the US, why would they stop that and arrest me just to send me later if I already had a flight... I'm going to get an attorney and call the US/German embassy tomorrow anonymously to try and figure it out I guess. This is all very worrisome

When you arrive in the country, they scan your passport. It gets recorded that you arrived and your passport is stamped. The EU is not surrounded by a wall or fence. There are multiple points to leaving the EU without going through passport control. I've heard rumors that people have left the EU through some of those roads and towns in the last year.

The question when you leave (go past passport control) could be, "why don't you have an exit stamp?"

Think smart.

When you come back, make sure you register at the Ausländerbehörderamt. It's important.

Have a safe flight.

One way to excuse not having an exit stamp is to "lose" your passport and get a new one before you leave. Then you don't have an entry or an exit stamp, but you have a credible excuse.

But seeing a lawyer is your best bet at the moment. They can help you more than anyone here.

Schengen Information System

So then the exit would need to be made through Switzerland...

Just my $.02, but don't waste your time and money with a lawyer- one will not be able to bail you out of this situation. Just leave as soon as you can. Your passport could still be checked when you exit Schengen by land, BTW. The Swiss check people who ride trains into their country from Germany, and I don't know if they will necessarily let in someone whose passport indicates they overstayed their time in Germany.

My flight to leave is soon. I just dont understand why they would go the extra mile to arrest me and deport me when I already have a flight booked. Doesn't anyone here know anyone who is in my situation? Surely this has hapened before...

I understand the logical concern. If they fine you at the airport and you can't pay it, they will detain you until you pay the fine, I think.

I cannot imagine why they would want the cost of keeping you in jail, so I doubt that is an option, although highered's posting about the fines for those here illegally upon exit sounds plausible. Just bring several hundred euros with you (maybe a thousand) if you have it- you can always exchange them back in the US.

So does anybody know if the banning is for sure? Say I go there, they fine me, I pay it, they send me on my way? or do they also ban you for a period of time...

I guess its all up in the air and depends on who it is and what mood they are in...

Well, why should they let you back in if you were here illegally before? Probably none of us knows for sure about a potential ban, but given the information they keep I would count on one, and on it being Schengen-wide.

Why do you think playing in a band would render you exempt from German taxation?
The obvious issue here is: Is your visit to "friends" in America of more import than your staying here and getting your papers in order?
When you've cleared that up in your mind, I think the course of action is fairly obvious.

I would guess that they will just let you go - after all, it's a lot of hassle for someone who wants to leave anyway. However, I wouldn't count on being let back in anytime soon. For that, you might want to contact the German embassy while you're gone.

You will not get fined, you will not get arrested. You will be allowed to leave but you will most likely find you will not be able to return for quite a while.

But, if I were you I would get yourself PROPERLY informed and not rely on the various snippits of advice here. The only advice that is true is with regards to you not being allowed to return to Germany for while. Other than that it is pure speculation and bollocks

§ 11 Einreise- und Aufenthaltsverbot
(1) Ein Ausländer, der ausgewiesen, zurückgeschoben oder abgeschoben worden ist, darf nicht erneut in das Bundesgebiet einreisen und sich darin aufhalten. Ihm wird auch bei Vorliegen der Voraussetzungen eines Anspruchs nach diesem Gesetz kein Aufenthaltstitel erteilt. Die in den Sätzen 1 und 2 bezeichneten Wirkungen werden auf Antrag in der Regel befristet.

"auf Antrag".
"in der Regel".

Note that since you apparently rather vastly willfully exceeded your visum - 12 months? that means you should have been deported 5 months ago at the latest - this limitation is likely to be rather higher.

Bobbymoon--Nothing is for sure. You may not even get in trouble when leaving. However, a pretty logical response is to restrict your Schengen visa-free travel privileges for a period of time.

Dude, the last person to try leaving the Schengen zone without State approval was Steve McQueen in the Great Escape. Good Luck. And if you should make it, can you scout around and provide us with recent maps and the suchlike

Because my band doesnt make money, haha. But thats besides the point. Of course getting my papers in order are more important, but thats the thing. Can you get your papers in order and become registered/legal when you're already well overstayed? This is why I'm so confused... some people are saying that I'm in big trouble, others are saying nothing will happen at all besides a ban. Is there a way to pay the state (besides the fine) so you dont get banned? Or any other options. I'm surprised that no one on this forum has been in my situation before. Although a bad decision and a mistake, it seems like someone might have been through the same ordeal...

seriously i would just call them and ask them annonymously what i can do. or i'd let someone call saying hey i got that friend what can we do...coz hey they work at the auslaenderamt and should be able to tell you, and if the answer isnt satisfactory you could call several different ones, like one in berlin one in munich one in Düsseldorf or wherever they are located! just get the info you need from them.

I can't believe you think that you actually have a shot to stay here after being here illegally for this long. On what grounds do you think you would be allowed to stay? You had better have some idea because they won't parse the legal statutes looking for one for you. At any rate, I think it would be a quixotic quest that would end with you getting deported.

Well, afterall, I am human. If you were in my situation you would probably feel the same. I would stay on the grounds of being an artist, and getting an artist's visa, and doing it right the second time.

Then accept the fact you broke the law and deal with the consequences. I wouldn't put myself in such a situation, and if I had, I would accept the consequences instead of asking for special treatment. The artist visa does sound like your best bet; however, I doubt very much that it will work.

Hey Bobbymoon. You ever read the notices in the trams and buses regarding riding without a ticket? Ever read the part that says "Don't bother coming up with any excuse as to why you do not have a ticket as we have heard them all."?

Do you think that, just maybe, boarder guards have heard pretty much every excuse there is to make?

Now, as said previously, you will notbe arrested, thrown in jail, taken to court, fined, hung, drawn or even quartered. You will be thrown out and not allowed back in for a while. Kind of sucks for you but, then. I also do not believe you were not aware of such things; especially as the visa stamp you have specifically gives a date by which you are required to leave the country...

While not certain, those things are possible (especially the fine). I know people who were fined for not registering their address within 7 days as required by law.


No it doesn't. An entry stamp (pretty uniform throughout Schengen) looks like this:
http://www.rathburn.net/visa/germany/MUC%2...er%20310807.jpg

Sure I was aware, but I didnt have sufficient funds to leave and come back and I didnt realize the consequences would be so dire. I thought there would be a way to fix things if I saved money and researched other options. People all over told me "Oh, dont worry it will be ok" and they were German and American so I thought it wouldn't be so harsh. Either way I guess you are right. The law is the law. I just thought there might be a way around being banned.

With some luck, you may be okay.
If you do go back to the US, you need to stay out of the Schengen zone for a while before returning (and don't forget to go about things the right, legal way!). And you may strongly consider renewing your passport, regardless of when it expires.

And please learn the lesson in consequences that society/your parents didn't teach you when you were growing up.

I am serious when I say that overstays by my fellow American citizens embarrass me and put my travel privileges in jeopardy.

all you had to go is nip over to the uk once in a while on a 30 € ryan air flight, but well what does that matter now?? its what you could have done and havent

Leaving once wouldn't have helped, actually.

I would take a train/bus to Prague and fly out of there. No one will check your passport on the way and their system is overloaded now that they've recently joined Schengen. Thousands of Americans are living there without proper stamps and they can't control it at the moment. Americans have a grace period through June (according to my old flatmate there) and you should be able to walk onto a flight without a question. But it would be good to stay the full 90 days at home and come back on a clean slate.

Good luck.

Only if by once in a while you mean spending half one's time outside of Schengen (e.g., in the UK or Switzerland).
Otherwise, no:
You are allowed 90 days in Schengen in each and every 180 day rolling period.

To get a completely clean slate, you need to be out for 180 days.
If you were legal when you left (90 days in Schengen), then 90 days out are sufficient to return (as the 180 day rolling window shifts each day so at any given point you have only 90 in 180).

Fly out of Zurich. Stay in US for 3 months. Fly back through Zurich.

Urrrmmm... So it has, urrmmm, like, urrrmm, a date on it. Then. Which is what I said except it is the date of entry and not the date required to leave. However, it has a date.

Yes, it has a date. It does not have the date required to leave.
I agree the OP should have known that, but the stamp alone isn't enough.

I mean, I understand that you came to Germany and like it here, and would like to stay here, but what were you thinking? You don't just come into another country and not put your ducks in order. So many people pull their hair out over here trying to get themselves jobs, work permits, and all the rest because they want to obey the law, and get their permissions within the alloted time period. As an American, you had 90 days to do that...without a work permit. Many other nationals don't have that preffered status, and have to get a job before they come to this country. I would guess that you will not be allowed back into the Schengen countries. If you are though, you should do better preparation, because your luck will eventually run out. What that means is residing here legally, with a work permit and a residency permit. Good luck, I guess.