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"Niederlassungserlaubnis" in my passport

Advice on what it encompasses

Toytown Germany > Discussion forum > Germany-wide > Visas/permits
Warthog
I understand that the holder of a German Niederlassungserlaubnis (NE) would normally retain his/her original nationality and passport etc. So, how does the holder of a NE go about proving ID on a day-to-day basis or when crossing international borders? Is the holder of a NE issued with a standard German Personalausweis? Or, is the NE a stamp in a passport, or is the NE a separate document issued in lieu of a Personal ausweis ... etc, etc?

Grateful for any advice.
Darkknight
The Niederlassungserlaubnis is nothing more that an unlimited living/work permit for Germany.
It is not a passport or a valid form of ID. Nor is it "issued in lieu of a Personal ausweis".
Non-Germans do not get issued a Personalausweis. Foreigners are required to use their passport as valid ID.
sarabyrd
The Niederlassungserlaubnis can speed up any entry into Germany without superfluous questions from Border Patrol and prevent the police from locking you up indefinitely if you get arrested as you have a better legal status than a foreigner with e.g. a time limited permit.
Warthog
Thanks for the posts ... but I'm still confused!
If the NE is a "permit", then what physical form does this permit take? What is it? What does it look like?
If I tell some German official that I have a NE ... and he says, "Prove it!" ... what do I show him??
Tks.
bluedave
Here you go sir, it's all explained here. Aufenthaltserlaubnis.
Darkknight
Its only a sticker that goes in your Passport. Nothing special looking.. Most Don't even have a picture
eurobabs
What is the difference between "Niederlassungserlaubnis " and "unbefristet". I keep hearing both terms and am not sure if they are the same thing or something different?
miwild
unbefristet = unlimited
Darkknight
Niederlassungserlaubnis is the name of the permit.

unbefristet = unlimited (How long the permits valid for)
eurobabs
@ miwild - thanks, I did know the translation of the word wink.gif - it was in reference to the permit that I wasnt sure if it was different than Nieder...

Thanks Darkknight for the clarification smile.gif I just keep hearing people use both words and wanted to make sure they were the same so that when I went to ask for mine, I would know if there was a difference.
kitkat64
QUOTE (Darkknight @ May 12 2008, 1:33 am) *
Most Don't even have a picture

But all the new ones do...and the pictures are ugly as hell.

The problem with the whole 'Ausweis' is that there is no address anywhere. Everytime I try to go to the Wertstoffhof (the dump) in Unterschleissheim, I use my husband's Ausweis because I have nothing that has my address on it (not driver's license and not Passport).
sarabyrd
They just wave us through ...
eurobabs
Has anyone actually been successful at getting theirs any earlier than 5 years?
gopher
Eurobabs, the Niederlassungerlaubnis is the new version of the unbefristete aufen. (UA). THey changed the name of it a few years ago. I know because I got my UA just before the official changeover. I don't think any major conditions were changed with the name change. My husband got his less than a year ago and it has the new name (NE) and a photograph (my old version UA has no picture). I know that with either version you can work as a freelancer or employed without any further fuss or application for a work permit.

Someone asked about the time limit. You must live and work (i.e. pay into the sozialversicherung/steuer system) in Germany for five years. Any gaps where you were not paying into the system, whether it's due to unemployment or freelancing will not count towards your five years. I had a student visa for a while and that didn't count, either. They added up all the time that I was employed (angestellt) and paying into the system. When it totalled five years I was given a permit. I had actually been living in Germany for nearly 7 years at the time that they gave it to me! I was so pissed off!

Since we're on the subject of annoying visa shit, my son wasn't awarded German citizenship although I had been living here for 8 years when he was born (in a Munich hospital). The rule on that one is that at least one parent has to have had the NE for three years already at the time of birth. The fact that both of us had been living here and been good tax-paying citizens for years meant absolutely nothing. When the German government says they support integration they are LIARS mad.gif Then they went on to give our son my husband's nationality against our wishes. Because only the father's nationality counts according to German law (chauvinist bastards! mad.gif ) unless you go to an Amt and specify otherwise, and then they will only give the mother's nationality as a second nationality. Has it ever occured to them that some women lie about who fathered their baby. (not saying that I did of course). wink.gif
highered
QUOTE (gopher @ May 26 2008, 9:18 pm) *
Then they went on to give our son my husband's nationality against our wishes. Because only the father's nationality counts according to German law (chauvinist bastards! ) unless you go to an Amt and specify otherwise, and then they will only give the mother's nationality as a second nationality. Has it ever occured to them that some women lie about who fathered their baby. (not saying that I did of course).

Germany has no ability to give or take away any nationality other than 'German'.
Seeing from your profile that you are an American, the US consulate will be the ones to give you official documentation of your son's US citizenship in the form of a "Consular Report of Birth Abroad".
gopher
My son is officially recognized as American by the US. We got all of the supporting documents (i.e. passport, cert. of birth abroad) at the US consulate within one month of his birth, no problem. The problem is that the German government has him down officially as my husband's nationality first and the American second (and German not at all) and absolutely refused to change it. We have no leg to stand on legally as that is the German law. Yes, it's not the end of the world. The US recognizes him as American, which is the most important consideration, but it is damn unfair and illogical to have your child be officially recognized as a nationality that has no relation to who you are and you have to deal with prejudice because of it and the added annoyance of having to renew your son's aufenthaltserlaubnis every few years even though you've lived in Germany for over ten years and your son was fucking born here. Our experience is that people are treated unequally, depending on their nationaltity and that's obviously something we want to avoid with our son.
MrNosey
What the hell are you worried about? Your profile says that you are a Brit. You don't need a Niederlassungserlaubnis, you're an 'old EU' citizen.
gopher
Huh? American, thank you very much... huh.gif
MrNosey
Not you, the OP. huh.gif
gopher
okey dokey smile.gif
HEM
QUOTE (MrNosey @ May 26 2008, 10:31 pm) *
What the hell are you worried about? Your profile says that you are a Brit. You don't need a Niederlassungserlaubnis, you're an 'old EU' citizen.
Not you, the OP.

Yes - I was wondering all along what the issue was given that OP is an EU citizen...
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