International schools in Berlin

Hello!
I have three children and will be moving to Berlin in two years. At that time, they will be 5,9, and 13. The older children attend a Waldorf school here in America, and I am in the information gathering phase. I know what the options are - Waldorf, International - but could use some real advice from those who have been down this road before. Many thanks in advance!

Hi Adelle, we are going through the same now with our kids. Our boys are 6 & 8, currently in first & second grade in Michigan. We're looking at the Berlin International School and the Berlin Brandenburg International School. In fact, we will be having interviews there in about 3 weeks as we are going on a househunting/school look-see trip. So look me up in a few weeks and I'll be happy to share our experiences with you!

The Nelson Mandela School in Berlin
www.nelson-mandela-school.net

Charles Dickens School in Berlin
www.charles-dickens-gs.de

Jonathan,
I'll be very interested in hearing about your experience in Berlin! Best wishes for your trip!

Hi
I was in the same situation last year and had no other option but the berlin international school as the british school was way too expensive. B.I.S is ok although it does cost alot specially if you got a few kids.
why dont you guys try the John .F Kennedy school as they do give preference to americans and its very good from what ive heard...being australian we didnt qualify!!!
As its state and embassy supported it doesnt cost that much and from what i hear the education standard is pretty good and compatible with the US system.

Good luck and do pm when you get here if you need any help.
cheers

John .F Kennedy forget about it... your kid will never get into college. Its got a bad name.

Places at JFK go very fast because the fees are state supported. Might be worth looking at for your kids Adelle - we were told no way as (a) they are already over-subscribed this year and ( we are British (this apparently overruled the fact that our kids were born in America and are American citizens - go figure!).

Only those who go to college come to learn that the period comes before the initial.

The Nelson Mandela school is a state funded school (i.e. not private) and is excellent - my daughter is there. Getting in is not always easy, but they have a well defined acceptance process (outlined on their web site) and it is applied very fairly.

From what I hear JFK is not a good school, and it seems to be an American enclave in Berlin - so your kids will not benefit form the wonderful multi-cultural experience that can be growing up in Berlin.

Colin

Lolo,
Are you kidding about college, or serious? I'm interested in your perspective. Thanks!

JFK school has a unique history in Berlin. And to understand the school you have to understand its history. It was set up in the 1960's as a free, German public school governed under the Berlin House of Representatives for the purpose of promoting "intercultural understanding" between the German and Americans. That's their charter and that's why they are not international in scope.

And thus my comment on the JFK school being an "American enclave in Berlin" - not an international school but one that focusses on maintaining very American values for the kids. If that's what you want for your kids thats your choice. However I believe in that case that your kids are missing out on one of the great aspects of growing up in Berlin, which is the open multi-cultural environment that exists here.

Is there a French international school in Berlin?

Not sure I would call it an "American enclave" - a large percentage of the teachers and student body are German. Students study in both languages and they have the option to write the Abitur or get an American style High School diploma.

Well in my daughter's class in Nelson Mandela school, there are children form Germany, Ireland, Great Britain, Netherlands, Senegal, USA, Canada (maybe some that I missed!), black, white, yellow and brown, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Atheist, Agnostic. For me this means that as well as getting a good education in a bi-lingual school that is state run and not private, my daughter is experiencing different cultures first hand every day.

For me, this is one of the great things about bring up children in Germany, and that is one of the main reasons we came back to berlin last year, so that our 18 month old son can also grow up in this environment.

Can you provide some evidence of that?
Or do simply have some connection with one of the fee-charging international schools in Berlin?

Looks like lots of folks got into college last year:
http://www.jfks.de/index.php?id=46

There is also the Berlin Metropolitan School - not a defined 'international' school per se, but instruction is in English and all the teachers are native speakers. The website is http://www.berlinmetropolitanschool.com

That list of school on the JFK site is not very overwhelming... saying that many of these schools are in the top 10% of colleges is being rather generous. Though of course it does seem some students were waitlisted at better schools-- not the same as actually getting in, though, is it?

Well, the statement I was responding to was "will never get into college".

I do think it's a bit disingenuous to include waitlisted schools in the same list as accepted schools.

I must say, I was unprepared for bickering online. I have little respect personally for supposedly great american universities. At the point my children are ready, I would encourage them to find experts in their field and find opportunities to learn. It may or may not be in university. Of more interest to me is the learning environment of the various schools, the possibilities and people's personal experiences. I went to a small and unremarkable Canadian university myself and received just what I needed. Please, can we stick to the point of my question?
A little grouchy,
Adelle

you call this bickering? I think the discussion here is very interesting and helpful.

I have one daughter in the Charles Dickens school and another daughter starting in September. The class is mixed both racially and in language, a definite plus. She receives classes in both English and German and we are very happy with the teachers and their teaching techniques..
I have to admit that her English is almost perfect now and she seems to be enjoying herself. My only problem is that I find the system here in Germany starts children far to late in learning. Many children of my friends back in Canada are at least 1-2 years ahead of their German counterparts in reading, math and spelling abilities (I was told that at some point they catch up through more intensive learning). Also, if a child is experiencing difficulties in learning (restless or bored children) they immediately suggest that the child be taken for ADD tests .
All I did was adjust the way I taught my restless daughter at home and now she is acing every test, whereas a friend of mine took the advice of their (German) school and her daughter now has ADD in her permanent record.
I also wish the extra curricular activities were better organized.
So, like everything else in this world, some pluses and some negatives.

My 9 year daughter is at Nelson Mandela, and as mentioned earlier we are really happy with that school. I was also a bit concerned that they start reading and writing so late in Germany, but now at 9 years old she has caught up and passed the kids of similar age I know in the UK and Ireland - and even better she is doing this on English and German. So don't worry, the catch up does really happen, and fairly quicky.

Colin

Hello--I'm new to this discussion, but am deeply interested in it. I am just about to move to Berlin for a year with my two children, ages 15 and 10. Both are native English speakers, but both have studied German. While they are naturally leery about attending monolingual German public school, we are very interested in their learning as much German as possible (without, of course, being traumatized). They have been admitted to both the Kennedy and Mandela Schools. I'd be interested in any thoughts about which of these two options (or others?) might be best for them. Thanks!

As I've said earlier, my daughter is in Nelson Mandela and I find it excellent, both from an education and social perspective. My take on your choice would be that if you want your kids to grow up in a very American environment here in Berlin, and do all things in a very American way, then you can got got JKF. However I'd hope you'd want your kids to experience the wide variety of cultures and people who live here in Berlin, and go to a school that is fundamentally based around a multi-cultural experience, then you can't beat Nelson Mandela school.

Welcome to Berlin, and I hope you enjoy living in this great city.

Colin

I know more about the Mandela School than the Kennedy, but I think that some of the posts so far in this thread have been very one-sided.

The Mandela School has many good things going for it -- nice kids, active parents and an excellent Director -- but it's by no means perfect. The teachers are quite variable in ability and commitment and there is an endemic problem with the way in which non-German teachers are treated which has led to some very good ones leaving. I don't know about how well the Kennedy does in placing its students at U.S. colleges but I do know that I had an excellent ex-Kennedy pupil when I taught at Oxford -- just a one-off, of course.

My guess is that, if they are just going to be in Berlin for a year, your children would get more out of the Mandela School, but it's no more than a guess.

Your comment on teacher ability and commitment is true of pretty much every school in the world.

The issue with non-German teachers is not to do with the Nelson Mandela school - it is due to the fact that the German education system unfairly treats them differently - they are paid less. It is a scandal and clearly discriminatory that if you have a non-German teaching qualification, you can be employed in the system, but you are not paid the same as someone with a German qualification. The problem is the German government's attitude, and there is a campaign to try to change it - thought it is not having much success. I have no idea how this situation can arise in a EU country - however we should all try to do what we can to help rectify the problem.

My daughter has one great teacher, and one average teacher. When I was in school in Ireland, I would have been happy with that - the quality of teachers we had in Synge Street school in Dublin in the 1970s was for the most part abysmal. I think parents place too much emphasis on this - it is up to us to encourage our kids to enjoy learning, and then in my opinion if the kids have average ability, they will do well.

Yes, well, whatever ... have a nice day.

(Adelle, AlbrechtDurer -- if you want more information, feel free to PM me.)

You should check out the newly opened International Primary school based in Prenzlauer Berg/Friedrichshain, Berlin kids International. Its already getting a good reputation and seems to have a great concept, and I heard they may have some spaces free this year if anyone is still looking. The web address is http://www.berlin-kids-international.de/school

The principal of Berlin Kids just resigned after only a year.

You will need to visit Berlin Kids to see if you like the area it's in or the condition of the building.

The principal of Berlin Kids is staying on as a teacher and he is supposed to be very good, also it's near the park, the inside of the school is great, they have a good concept and plans and there are a lot of enthusiastic parents. You will have to pay between 200 and 400 Euros a month for school, Hort and food unless you qualify for a reduction. They also need parents to work 6 hours a month or pay 40 Euros a month instead.

To the author:

We were also choosing the school and also between Berlin International and Brandenburg. Initially we decided to go for Berlin International school and even applied for it for our 3 kids. But then we heard some worrying stories about it. One case was really shockingly unbelievable. And finally we were advised by the company my husband is working for not to go there (as a number of employees had some kind of problems there).
As for Brandenburg school, we have not heard any negative feedback. Plus the school is really well equipped, has great development potential. And in the end we decided to stay with Brandenburg school.
There is also a British school in Berlin. It seems to be fine. But all their 3 schools (foundation, junior and senior) are in different locations and 2 are really isolated.

BBIS has the best reputation, but its a long way away and quite expensive-exclusive. Nelson Mandela is a good option if you live in Berlin city. Its like a state school you would get in your home country. It has a bilingual program, so your kids will be with other English speakers during language lessons, and then with German speakers for the other lessons (but these lessons are in English, apart from maths, I think?? This is what I understand anyway). Its free. Other schools to check out are Phorms (growing quickly, but perhaps lacking curriculum direction), Cosmopolitan School (new school that will be good by the time you arrive), British School (has a good reputation, popular with diplomatic crowd), and Charles Dickens School (very similar, but smaller, to Nelson Mandela school). I wouldnt go for the other small schools, as I have heard they have a lot of problems.

At Nelson Mandela there are two streams - based on what is considered the child's mother tongue. They maintain as close to 50-50 as they can in the size of the streams. So if your mother tongue is deemed to be English, then there is a different emphasis on the lessons to the kids with German mother tongue - obviously the key difference is in the teaching of the two languages.

Hi, this here is very interesting! After living in the New York City area for almost 10 years we will be moving back to Germany after the summer. My here born second grader also got into the JFK and the Nelson Mandela school and now we have to choose. We also have a 5 year old...

We are planning to stay in Berlin for a while if not for good. So this is a tough decision. I have visited both schools a couple of weeks ago and I liked them both.

The JFK very much reminded me of the schools here in upper middle class suburbia Montclair, NJ which I like. I think it would be a very easy transition and would help to keep and teach the kids the American culture. However, is it too American and old fashioned or conservative?

The Nelson Mandela School also made a very good impression! At least the people I met there. However, the location of the school is more center and that would mean living in an apartment instead of a house with yard. After 6 years Manhattan I can hardly imagine that... ) Also the day is very long. 8-4. So I think that would leave no room for after school activities like soccer or music class...

Any thoughts on my concerns?

Is there someone here who has kids in the JFKS?

Thanks a lot!

The school day at Nelson Mandela is normal for Berlin. It is 8am to 3pm, wit a latest collection time of 4pm, and I think on Friday's you can pick the kids up after 1pm. There is plenty of time for after school activities. At the moment, my 9 year old daughter does step dancing one day, an art class another day, and a computer class another day - which is plenty. The school also organises class trips, there is weekly swimming, so there is no shortage of extra curricular activities.

As always, I highly recommend this school if you want you kids to be educated in an easy going multi-cultural environment.

Colin

Can you visit Nelson Mandela to looks round? Or do you have to wait for the Sept/Oct/Nov open day? I want to go and look now but have been patiently waiting.

I don't know the answer to that - give them a call and see what you can arrange.

Colin

Thanks Colin!

I thought that the day is 8-4. But I can pick my son up at 3? Is that correct?

Thanks!

Uh ... no. Not in my experience.

When I collect, it is usually around 3:45pm - I understood earlier was possible. I'll check it out for sure and post again later.

Colin

A friend of a friend who has kids at the Nelson Mandela told us that they used to have the fun activities in the afternoon. However due to some funding issues they now have to have regular classes in the late afternoon and that is why an early pick up is no longer possible... True or untrue? )

Thanks!

As I said I would do, I have checked up the situation at Nelson Mandela. As a state funded school, working under certain special conditions, they have classes and activities form 08:00 to 16:00 Monday to THursday, and Friday 08:12:30. So Monday to Thursday you normally pickup at 16:00, Friday any time form 12:30. They are not completely strict, but discourage early collection.

What the teacher told me is that in other schools, pickup is usually at 13:00 Monday to Friday. So parents usually have to make special arrangements for their kids in the afternoons.

I hope this clarifies things, and apologies for the slightly misleading information earlier. I think there is still lots of time for the kids to do extra-curricular activities a couple of evenings a week.

I just move my family to Berlin in April and we missed the enrollment at Nelson Mandela, our first choice. We are at JFK by default. There are not a lot of free options for bilingual (an English mother tongue with German also) in Berlin. We will do the first year at JFK and then try Mandela again.

Good luck on yours. We are enjoying living in Berlin very much.

Steve

I am not sure if that will work. At JFKS and NMS they told me that once you are at one of the bilingual schools (JFK, NMS, Quentin Blake, Charles Dickens) they don't let you change to one of the other ones because they do not want to compete with each other... But reality might be different...

So how do you like the JFKS?

FYI

There was an article in today's Tagesspiegel on the average scores of this year's Abi. The Berlin average was 2,5. The Nelson-Mandela was specifically mentioned as this was the first year the school had an Abi class - they scored an average of 2,1, a great result! John F Kennedy, although the score was not listed is in apparently the Spitzengruppe. It seems both schools are performing well, there was no mention of the performance of the private international schools.

We have been here temporarily in Berlin but our stay has just been extended for the next two years, so now I am concerned about school this fall. My oldest has just turned 5 and I wonder whether I should be trying to get her in JFKS foe entering class. Because we expect to be going back to the states within the next 4-5 years, I am very concerned about the late beginning of academics (just reading and writing here)- does anyone know whether the ec class at JFK actually has academics or is just playing and whether 1st grade could start at 5?

Hi Gail,
My daughter is 5 and won't be 6 until February but will be starting grade one at the Charles Dickens school this fall. They test the child beforehand and then make a recommendation as to if the child is "ready" to begin classes. Best to just go and inquire what the next step is. Generally, first class starts at 6 years of age, children with birthdays that fall in between (like my daughter) are accepted based on these tests. If your daughter just turned 5 then it might be too close and she will have to wait (I know how frustrating that is) for another year.