Six-month notice period on an employment contract

Within my employment contract I have a clause stating that the termination period is 6 months. Before coming here, I thought that this was probably normal for Germany. Can anyone (preferably from those working within the Legal sector) tell me if this is correct? I heard that this was not even legal.

usually it's one month notice period (and termination at the end of the month) but in most cases longer periods are perfectly legal.

Have a read of some previous threads on the subject for information.

I have, but not that much there relevant to my circumstances. Only post i saw that was:

From Elfenstar
Nov 17 2003, 1:18 pm

"our notice period is 6 months 'til end of the quarter, but a lawyer i visited said this cannot be held up in court, 3 months is normal. but there has only been one case where a collegue was held to this 6 months (he got an expensive training)."

And according to another post:

"(1) Das Arbeitsverhältnis eines Arbeiters oder eines Angestellten (Arbeitnehmers) kann mit einer Frist von vier Wochen zum Fünfzehnten oder zum Ende eines Kalendermonats gekündigt werden.

(2) Für eine Kündigung durch den Arbeitgeber beträgt die Kündigungsfrist, wenn das Arbeitsverhältnis in dem Betrieb oder Unternehmen

1. 2 Jahre bestanden hat, 1 Monat zum Ende eines Kalendermonats,
2. 5 Jahre bestanden hat, 2 Monate zum Ende eines Kalendermonats,
3. 8 Jahre bestanden hat, 3 Monate zum Ende eines Kalendermonats,..."

Still wouldn't mind advice from an expert, so if anyone has any contacts for Solicitors in Munich that specialise in Employment law then that would be quite handy.

Go and see your boss about an "Aufhebungsvertrag". Normally if you're keen to leave, they'll give you one. It's not in their interests either to force you to come to work for 6 months and have you unmotivated and doing nothing and them paying you for that time.

Hazza - shame on you for giving BAD advice.
"Aufhebungsverträge" are a con.
The Arbeitsamt (or whatever they call themselves now)
treat an "Aufhebungsvertrag" as collusion between the employer and employee
and are very picky about paying unemployment benefit to folk who have signed one.
I had good legal advice about this (free!) from a Hamburg legal outfit.
In Germany it is best to be sacked for one reason or another (Betriebsbedingkundingung
- sacked because there is no more work for you - is one way).
Trying to be your own lawyer in Germany is not sensible - take expert advice.
My employer tried to induce me to sign an Aufhebungsvertrag.
Previous (German!) employees had signed theirs like lambs.
A quick visit to a lawyer informed me:
1 On age grounds I could keep my job if I wanted to (but I didn't)
2 Do not sign the Aufhebungsvertrag - you shut off your legal options
and screw up your unemployment pay possibilities if you do.
I had the great pleasure of using German law against an unethical employer
and getting the maximum possible Abfindung (compensation for loss of job)
and the maximum (at once) unemployment pay.
It was great because the (Cowboy) outfit thought I was a naive Brit...

We have a 3 month notice that can only be given at the end of the calendar quarter. Therefore, if I were to quit at the end of June I would serve 3 months but if I quit in the first week of July I would have to work 6 months as my notice period would not begin until the end of September.

I have spoken to others in Germany who did not find this odd at all!

senior posts often command such notice periods. My own with a UK company does so. In practice, with an irreconcileable breakdown between employer and employee it actually protects you since the employer would put you on gardening leave and pay your full wage for the notice period. So dealing with the Arbeitsamt instead of accepting the notice salary would be pointless. Where it gets problematic is when you accept a job with someone else - most reasonable companies would offer to negotiate in such circumstances.

There could be a 6 months clause in there but as post number 4 clearly states, that is when the employer wishes to sack you.2 - 4 weeks is normal for an employee to hand his notice in in Germany.

I have read my contract, and in the English version it says: "After the 3 months (Probitzeit) has elapsed, the notice period shall be 6 months from the end of the respective calender month. Otherwise, the statutory regulations pursuant to Art.622, Para 2 of the German Civil Code (BGB) shall apply."

My manager knows that I want to leave and knows that the project i'm working on is no good for me, it's an unstable project, and that I'm not happy working on it. Nevertheless he told me that since I'm working on behalf of the agency and not the customer, I must fulfill the obligations of the six month notice period. I've had neither any specialist training nor am in a senior role, so a six month notice period regardless of what is written in the contract doesn't sound right. I've been working directly for this company for less than a year.

I'd like to know where I stand legally with this? At present - and provided I get a job offer elsewhere very soon - I'd like to hand in my notice which abides by German law and not by a contract drawn up by my employer. Can I be sued and is there real liklihood that it'll ever reach court if I said "i'm leaving after the end of the next month." (which abides by Art.622, Para 2 of the BGB)?

I have a friend in the financial industry with such a contract.
It's to prevent any sensitive information getting out.

That doesn't apply to me in this case.

Crack here's the scoop:

It's both legal and normal. It would only be illegal if your employer had a shorter notification period than you have (which I'm assuming you don't).

But -- and this is a pretty major but -- German courts are based on compromise. So you quit and your company sues you. You go to court. The judge has to weigh what you owe the company (work) against what the company would owe you if the contract were enforced (money for the work you did). Weighing one against the other you would both be even and be ordered to pay your own attorney costs. End of story/trial. Because attorneys know this is how it would end up, they won't sue.

It's best to sit down with your employer, tell them you're leaving on a reasonable date and hammer out an AUFHEBUNGSVERTRAG.

I'm not an attorney but I did this once. This is a good starting point for a discussion with an attorney.

Good luck -- and if you're ever the kind of white that hasn't been cooked with baking powder, I'm in the market.

KäptnKnitterbart, thanks for the explanation. Actually you are right about the notice period: (if your employer had a shorter notification period than you have (which I'm assuming you don't)). Actually, it's meant to be a 2-way notice period which applies to both me and my employer. My manager told me this last week.

Actually, there has been a few incidents which I've not been happy with and expressed these to my agency i.e. I was brought here to work on a work package/project from another country, and this work package has been very different (and not one or two small differences) from what I was meant to be doing. In my opinion (although it's not objective) I believe that I could try to contest a swifter leave because of the employer's inability to fulfil their obligations on their side of the contract. Though like I said, this is of my opinion and am not fully aware where I stand with this legally. I think the best thing for me to do right now - only after a firm offer from elsewhere - is to abide by German law at the very least and if they still wanna take me to court, then they can do what they have to do. Six months for less than one years work just seems dense.

a few sick notes in the next 6 months will see you out beforehand i believe

Wow, jeremyhay, I don't believe anyone has ever replied in iambic pentameter before.

@ Crack; sounds like you work at BT Germany.

Wow! I was edged on to take the Aufhebungsvertrag by the Betriebsrat at that time who assured me that I'll get my unemployment money. I thought that BR is on employees' side, they cannot be wrong in their advice so I signed it without consultation with any legal bodies. Fortunately/unfortunately, I was offered a new job the next minute (not with the same company!) so I haven't got the experience with the unemployment agency with a Aufhebungsvertrag...

Not necessarily, depends on the company. Especially in certain areas, it's not that rare that the BR is nothing but a mouthpiece for the employer. Usually also comes with shifty employer-friendly unions, and weird highly-specialized tariff treaties. Some companies are pretty good at dodging standards there.

You can still collect unemployment when signing an aufhebungsvertrag and the abfindung is not considered when calculating your unemployment pay.

However, this doesn't apply to crack as he's QUITTING, not being laid off.

Aufhebungsvertraege aren't a crock, they're necessary to dissolve the existing, unlimited contract.

yes, you're right, however, when calculating when you will begin to receive unemployment benefits, the unemployment office will consider how long your notice period was. if you quit of your own accord, you will not get unemployment benefits for 3 months minimum. no discussion there. if your notice period is 6 months and you sign an Aufhebungsvertrag, the unemployment office will take that into consideration, so in worse case, you will not receive any unemployment benefits for 9 months.

this is exactly what a lawyer told me when I signed mine. i had a job lined up so it was a non-issue, but I had a few sleepless nights worrying my new boss would withdraw their job offer to me.