The next generation of smokers is puffing away - Germany

German Survey Finds Every Fifth Adolescent Smokes

"As many as 20% of adolescents from 11 to 17 years of age smoke. This was the result of the nationwide German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KiGGS), performed by the Robert Koch Institute and presented by the sociologist Thomas Lampert in the current edition of Deutsches Arzteblatt International (Dtsch Arztebl Int 2008; 105[15]: 265-71)."

They also found evidence to suggest that type of school (e.g. Realschule vs. Gymnasium) and having friends who smoke are more important in predicting whether an adolescent will smoke than having parents who smoke.

What do you think - would more aggressive anti-smoking campaigns in schools do any good?

I've spent the last 7 years working with kids of this age group and I find that statistic incredible. I'd have thought it was way more. Perhaps I'm thinking of 14-17 though as the really young ones don't.

Who'd have thought it. Peer pressure being the main contributor.

I gave up even trying to talk to them about it. I have a strict policy they don't do it around me and if they really need to then they have to do it out of my sight. Pointless trying a ban as it won't work.

They know it will harm them and they don't care. The arrogance of youth.

It's cool to smoke. The only way to stop it is to stop it being cool.

That surprises me a little, because I gladly credit my parents as the reason I have never smoked a single cigarette. Their smoking was disgusting to me, so there was never the slightest bit of curiosity or attraction to that.

My partners Daughter claims that all 19 in her class smoke...

She kind of shot herself in the foot when she said that, because she included herself in the statistics!!

She also said the 14 of the kids get their Ciggies from their parents..

Definitely. I find that hardly anyone of my friends smokes. One smoked occasionally (socially) on and off and I think she started pretty late (over 20 years old) but due to her boyfriend, and one childhood friend of mine who I was not in touch with for many years until recently started smoking when she was 11 years old (in that case I think it was also due to the mom smoking a lot), but other than that all my friends are non-smokers. As are my parents (well, I recently found out that my mom still smokes like two or three cigarettes a year when she meets up with a (smoker) friend of hers which not even my dad knew about ), though both used to smoke (my dad in his early 20s, my mom until she was pregnant with me). My brother doesn't smoke either, and neither does my older sister. I also had the impression before that non-smokers tend to befriend non-smokers more often and smokers smokers. Of course not exclusively, though.
I think that parents do have some influence, but a lot more comes from peers because too many kids start smoking to be cool.

To be honest, I'm surprised they think it's only 20%. From my own experience with my daughters friends I would have said it was closer to 40-50%. As far as I can tell my daughters don't smoke, I've kept up an anti- smoking campaign throughout their lives, but I've never told them they cannot smoke. I just told them the dangers of smoking and that I hoped they never started.
I haven't been to the cinema recently, but the adverts I saw there the last time I went were unbelievable, the kind of ads that were stopped 2 decades ago in Britain. In effect they were saying:" Smoke our ciggies and everybody will either want to sleep with you or give you the best job ever". There just doesn't seem to be enough anti smoking information given out here, like there is in Britain. Of course the fact that you can buy ciggies from a machine on every street corner for very little money doesn't help.

let them puff they're paying for my Krankenkasse thingy

Hmmm, i'd have to find the actual statistics.. but usually, the number is more like around 40%. Slightly more with the girls than the guys.

Oh, and you can't buy ciggies from a machine on every street corner since last last year. Unless you nick your parents' EC card or driver's license first.

Don't be so naive, all it takes is one kid whose old enough and he becomes the supplier.

Sure, but that's different. Puts it to the same level as alcohol, or pot.

Nope. Cigarettes are far more readily available to kids than either alcohol or pot.

Hmm? I think you're underestimating something there. It's absolutely zero problems for kids to obtain any of that in Germany.

It would actually be interesting to see newer statistics on teenage drinking in Germany. I think that's risen quite a bit in the last couple years, and they especially start younger. Not to the UK's levels yet, but going strongly in that direction.

Perhaps each is easy to obtain, I'm not questioning that, but are you really going to sit there and tell me pot is as easy as cigarettes for a kid to get their hands on?

I personally would not even know how to get pot (well except maybe ask someone who might know). But I would definitely know how to get alcohol or cigarettes. And I am no kid. Just clueless when it comes to (illegal) drugs. I do have to agree with Keydeck here, particularly about pot, alcohol is still very (way too) easy to get one's hands on also as a kid.

From what I'm told Pot is overall in Bavarian schools as well.

The other day I was walking by a park and a group of young boys approached me and asked something in german .. Since I didnt know the language I replied that I dont speak German .. so this somewhat older guy in the group who must be around 14 yr old asked me if i had a smoke in english .. i told him sorry , (somehow gathered my courage ) and told them u guys are too young to smoke .. What next happ totally surprised me .. They took it the wrong way , started laughing at me and spoke something in german .. I got a bit wary and started walking away to the U bahn station and I was surprised that i was being followed ... Thank god nothing untoward happened .. I am really scared to preach such young kids .. I am 28 yr old and I felt totally at their mercy at one point of time ...

There's a official study from the BZGA from 2004, according to which 58% of all kids 16-19 have been offered illegal drugs before; 36% have consumed illegal drugs (mostly cannabis of course) before.
31% of all 12- to 25-year-olds have experience with cannabis; among adolescent smokers this rises to 44%; among the binge drinking group, it rises to 67% even.

Maybe not just as easy - but it's damn easy, with such numbers.

Although pot may not be as easy to get (as in just walking into a shop) I guess it is easy.

I was witha stag night in berlin (not a usualy one, more layed back) and one of the guys not only managed to find someone smoking pot he also managed to track the ealer and buy some.

The guy could not speak a word of german.

Going back to cigarettes, the only way to stop kids smoking is to raise and enforce the age limit, check all kids under the age limit and confiscate what they shouldn't have and stop them leaving school at dinner time.

Ban all smoking advertising and ban displays in shops. All tobacco products to be sold form under the shelf.

If the above would work, who knows, would it be possible to enfoce them and would it even be a good idea?

Eventualy it will be a moot point as it will either be banned or very restricted.

They could restrict the sale of cigaretes etc to smoking clubs and raise the age of mambership to 21 (they may also refuse alcohol licences to these clubs).

The problem is, how to restrict the sale to younger people while not impacting on adults.

It would also help to try to change the attitude that kids have that they depend so much on their peers' approval. Not all kids are the same in that regard. As long as that doesn't change, kids will find a way if they want to.
(Granted, I wouldn't exactly know how to accomplish that. It'd have to be up to parents and teachers.)

You can get pot anywhere, but it is a hell of alot harder to get your hands on in Munich than it is in, well, absolutely every other place in the world I've lived, apart from Singapore. The police here are complete areseholes about the stuff, and although it's likely to get thrown out of court, they'll try to prosecute people for having one solitary joint on them, even if they're a 35 bloke bloke who pays shitloads of tax, and abides by the law in every other way, let alone a 15 year old with a Jimmy Hendrix t-shirt.

Tobacco is very, very easy to get hold of though, of course, and cheaper too - especially when a surprising number of places (particularly the little kiosks at ubahn stations) actually sell single cigarettes.

The idea that the best way to stop kids smoking is to make it "uncool" is a non-starter really. Find me one adult that can keep a track on kids perception of whats cool and whats not cool - not easy - and the very fact that smoking is bad for you MAKES it cooler. "look at me, I'm so cool I don't give a fuck" sorta attitude. Making tobacco prohibitively expensive could be an avenue to explore, but one that is likely to just lead to a massive black market for the stuff, and of course one that politicians won't really go for, because it'd be extremely unpopular amongst some voters.

I think that they're doing what they can - making it a hassle to smoke, by banning smoking in public places, is a pretty good start. If nothing else it makes you smoke alot less.

If those adolescents had enough money, I guess it would be 80%. (or you can say 80% would 'regularly' smoke). Its a kool thingy for most of 'em.


I heard from a couple of people that 'Smoking pot aint a problem here, but owning is illegal'. Dont know how exactly that works (I mean how one can smoke without owning something).


Try it in the Middel-East and you will know how your life's gonna turn out to be.

This is the kind of statement that gives statistics a bad name. Clearly the smoking rate amongst 11-year-olds is going to be massively lower than among 17-year-olds, so why would these age groups be put into the same category? It's like saying that 52% of humans have breasts.

The other issue here is how one defines a smoker. Census statistics show that the smoking rate among adults in Bavaria is 26%, which is the same as in the UK. A quick look out the window shows that this is nonsense; clearly far more people smoke here than in the UK. A (German) friend of mine carries a packet of cigarettes around in her handbag and probably gets through a pack a week, yet she does not consider herself to be a smoker. I asked her about this, and she said that she would answer "non-smoker" on any census form because she's "not really" a smoker, i.e. not someone who smokes a packet a day. In my eyes she is clearly a smoker. Especially among teenagers, many won't admit to being a smoker for fear of their parents finding out their response.

Why shouldnt adults not be impacted? Younger people only copy what adults do. Its up to adults to set an example, not to keep double standards!

100% agreement from me, it's like I always say: the best way to stop teenage pregnancy is to stop adult pregnancy. Eventually the issue will cease entirely. End the double standard!

@FL..lol

@rik_de - its legal to smoke at the moment, any measures to curb illegal use should not impact on legal users.

To do so shows a lack of imagination. It would be like banning smoking within the city limit because smokers make noise outside while smoking or refuse to go outside and smoke inside - you are impacting people who obey the law to tackle those that either break it (smoke inside) or who cause some other disruption (outside making noise) while doing something that is legal.

Those that break the law are the ones who should be punished - otherwise its like banning childrens sweets because a few eat to many.

Some young people have a problem with taking resoioncibility for their actions, smoking and drinking is a good place to start. If they do it and its illegal, punish them.

Your double negative aside, why should I have to change my life habits because some other asshole can't teach his kid not to emulate random people on the street?