Rude gestures - fingers up and such like - Germany

How do Germans make rude gestures? Are they rude enough to even think of doing so?? Do they stick two fingers up? One finger (which one?), do a bras d'honneur? Is it true it is an offense to make such gestures? If so, what is the German technical term (police language)?

if you get caught making the middle finger up by a police office you can be fined 1000 euro.
to fingers (index and middle) is, i believe, purely an english thing
i dont know any other gestures but can ask my boyfriend if you really like (he's german)

My adolescent neighbour was obviously doing something insulting when I had my back to him. His granny was remonstrating loudly (if unconvincingly) with him telling him to stop and when I looked round she was holding his wrists down, fighting with him... I am not paranoid incidentally. This has happened before and I have seen the expression on my daughter's face when she could see and I couldn't (daughter too small to ask what he was doing). Read my previous post about getting reported to the Sozialamt by my lovely neighbours and you will understand why I am going to be down the copshop as soon as I have anything, no matter how small, to get these idiots on.

I don't think you can take "I'm sure he was making a rude sign behind my back" to the police and expect to get anything out of it.

Right. Which is why I want to know what he would have been doing so I can say I actually saw him. I did not drop off a banana boat yesterday and these guys deserve to be nuked.

maybe not but then you'd be lying to the police and if you didn't drop off a banana boat yesterday, you'd know that's illegal and could be considered a worse offense than making rude gestures.

So Eleonor, or anyone else so inclined, please advise me further. The demented (his parents describe him as lively) adolescent in question has deprived us of much sleep over the last decade owing to extreme and unnecessary noise at all times of the day and night. We have had our house soiled twice with eggs and tomato sauce, not that there is any proof it is him - apart from the banana boat thing. The Granny (again no proof) reported US to the Social Services when my daughter hit two and had a few tantrums. The noise at night has much improved after I reported them to the police (who told me that I had to list every squeak and bump if I wanted to make an official complaint). However, my daughter still is woken regularly at 1 or 2 in the morning when the idiot gallops up the stairs, bangs around the bathroom and throws himself into bed (yeah, that is an improvement on the previous state of affairs). Relations with his family are - unsurprisingly - at a miserable impasse. We are past talking to them. We are often not in Munich so making lists, apart from life being too short for such stuff, would not give an accurate picture of their antics. I just want to nail them with something. Anything, We do not intend to move for other reasons. So any advice on what I can legally do?

10 Years??

Why the hell didnt you move and give yourself a chance?

Buy earplugs?

What makes you think that trying to "nail them" for things they haven't done and that you can't prove is going to improve the situation?

Earplugs for my 2-year-old?

I would like to show them that enough is enough.

Earplugs for my 2-year-old?

I would like to show them that enough is enough.

How would you improve this hopeless situation? And don't just say move.

Seriously I can't even believe you're considering this.

Even if you swear up and down to the police that this kid made some rude gesture to you, it'll still be his (and his Grandmother's) word against yours. They're not going to charge him without evidence and since the whole thing is based on a lie, there's a better chance that you'll get in trouble than them. What if they or someone they know reads this forum? You've given enough details about yourself and the situation that you wouldn't be hard to identify.

What would I do in your situation? I'd try my best to make nice, it's a little more than coincidental that you don't get along with both of your neighbours, there does seem to be a common denominator here.

Why not? It seems to be the only sensible solution, like it or not. Unless you're happy to waste your time and nerves on a pointless feud that is.

Thanks.

There is a decade of baggage here. I am at the end of my tether. Just make nice, eh?

I also happen to know a few cops who also frequent the forum, what if they happen to be the officers you bring this false claim to?

So, I repeat my question. What can I legally do?

Is there a lawyer out there?

Oh, you want to go legal?
Then don't make an accusation based on lies and what the adolescent "might" have been doing.

Keep reporting to the police, basta.

do you live directly next to them (in a DHH or something?) do you rent or own your house?
I think you need to keep a diary of all of their out-of-order behaviour, something you can present to the police when necessary.
if you are renting then you just need to contact the Mieterverein, if you're an owner not sure what you can do perhaps someone else can advise.
certainly it's wise to keep a level head about it all, so when you do contact the authorities you'll come across as the sensible one in the feud.

do you live directly next to them (in a DHH or something?) Yes, a DHH

do you rent or own your house? We rent - not from them. They are owners of their half.

I think you need to keep a diary of all of their out-of-order behaviour, something you can present to the police when necessary.

We are often not in Munich so making lists, apart from life being too short for such stuff, would not give an accurate picture of their antics.

if you rent then surely the Mieterverein is your best bet, they can, on your behalf, warn the neighbours that their inappropriate behaviour may eventually have legal consequences. you'll need to join (think it's 55€ a year) and they will give you good advice. I've always had good experiences with them.
I still think that keeping a diary can give an accurate account of their disagreeable behaviour but that's up to you.
good luck!

So life is too short to document what's happening and perhaps solve the problem, but it isn't too short to live with it for 10 years?!

Why wouldn't a documentation of everything that is happening portray it accurately?

Even if you don't want to hear it: move.
Luckily you only rent that house!
Imagine you would own it and would have to sell it.
It would be very hard to sell it if potential buyers would find out why you want to sell.
It is better to money for a move then for lawyers.
Even if you would win the case after 5years there would be no garantee that the trouble would end.

Thanks Moonboot. May try this option.

Do what i did.We had a nighmare neighbour underneath us coming home 1.30 am in the morning stereo on full balst.Called the police and then phoned my landlord at 2.00 am.When all said and done i sent the landlord a letter telling him that for every time i have to call the police i am going to knock 7.5% off his rent.He never got back in touch and as it hapenned i had to call the police out 3 times in month.Transferred 22.5% less rent and that was that.The neighbour from hell got thrown out.Now we are happy and i saved some money in the process

Problem is, the neighbours don't rent, they own, so what I say and do to my poor landlord will have no bearing on their behaviour. However, I address the next bit to Eleonor and her police friends. First, thanks to Eleonor for pointing out the potential folly of my ways. If a reasonable girl is thinking of doing bad things it is a sign of utter DESPERATION and yes, anger. My daughter has been woken up three times this week... and I am tired.

Last Summer however there was a water pipe (one of those Arab things, also known as a bong in some circles) on the neighbour's balcony. There was also a lingering unpleasant smell on my terrace for most of the Summer, which I assumed to be some sort of plant in their garden. When I mentioned this to my husband just recently he wondered if it was the smell of hashish... so there we go. Eleonor, if your police friends have nothing more pressing to do and would like to do a drugs search, they could try consulting the Tagesbuch of the police station at Prinz Regentenplatz. I complained about them on 9 November 2007 and an entry of my woes was made. Only at that point I did not know (and perhaps still do not know?) what hashish smellt like, so failed to mention that small detail. I am sure on the basis of this information they will be able to establish my neighbours' address.

Here is a typical German gesture.
It means "Nicht alle Tassen im Schrank (haben)" or "Du hast einen Knall"
translation:
You are nuts/crazy.

I would definitely go to the Mieterverein, even though your neighbours own their property, they could still face legal consequences re. persistent noise and inappropriate behaviour towards you and your family.
it'd be 55€ well spent. I can imagine if they get an official letter from the Mieterverein's lawyers telling them to behave themselves 'or else', their behaviour will dramatically change!

Thudding about next door at 4 a.m. Child woken up.

They will also tell her to document everything, which she isn't willing to do.

Guess I will be going to the Mietverein and documenting everything. I'm beat. Called the police the last two evenings and they said they would send a Streifenwagen. Evidently this was just to fob me off as they did not turn turn up as far as I know (yes, I waited for them but went to bed at midnight) and judging from the neighbours continuing charming behaviour. Presumably you have to call them at least three times an hour to get them out to anything less than a murder, which actually I can understand.

shitty neighbours suck. and i agree that you do not want to spend your time scribbling down every event. although i am surprised that you do not know what weed smells like. don't think many people call it hashish nowadays. weed, skunk, or solid if it was so. can't say it smells bad either, quite refreshing i find.

good luck.

J

I really don't understand how, if the neighbours are sooo bad, you can stay and accept it for 10 YEARS! :-}
I would simply recommend moving... you said not to suggest moving as an option, but if you don't, bigger fool you! If you stay, then you have no other option but to keep fighting the neighbours.

We also have nightmare neighbours (which drives me nuts) and they are rude when I ask them to be quiet and don't change anything. One even said in front of the Hausverwaltung that his brother lives nearby in a similar block of flats and had problems with his neighbours and solved it with a knife!!! Hausverwaltung haven't done a thing, despite 4 flats signing/writing numerous letters to complain. The only option is for us to move at some point... as soon as finances allow, I'll be off... It just wastes energy having to constantly fight back with such idiots...

Problems with loud music are easy to deal with as the police will usually come and get them to turn it down and you can take out an "Anzeige" against them. From what I am aware, every time the police have to come out, they are fined more and more... Noise from uncontrollable kids is not easy to change - police are not interested when they are young kids... probably teenage years onwards the would do something.

I would just move and hope you have more luck next time...

Anyway, seems this thread has been hijacked... maybe we should get back onto the subject of rude gestures... ;-D

Even if you can get them to shut up using whatever means you are still going to be running into them on a daily basis. Sounds to me like you need a fresh start. Just make plans to move. You don't say why you are reluctant to move? Is it because you believe that you should not have to? That's a fair point, but as you have said yourself, life is too short. Eliminating the stress from your life will be worth the moral compromise. You can't beat inconsiderate neighbours because they love winding you up. Alleging fake rude gestures will just make you look daft if you are found out and then the police will be likely to not take your complaints seriously in future. I feel for your situation, but please MOVE!

Moving is nerve-wracking, time-consuming and expensive. We have a large 3-bed semi with huge cellar and attic space, a garage and a large garden which we have spent considerable time on. It is in a quiet (ha, ha), leafy, pleasant suburb of Munich. We like it. We've been here 15 years and never had a rent rise (so think about that one very carefully indeed). Our landlord is lovely and has NEVER bothered us once in 15 years. We pay the rent, leave her in peace. She collects the rent, leaves us in peace. This means a lot to us. My Club is within walking distance. My daughter is enrolled in a school around the corner for September. We are away quite a lot anyway. The noise next door has been sporadic over the years and bad to varying degrees sometimes just irritating and sometimes so awful I have felt like resorting to violence especially in view of their reaction when we have approached them. Their attitude is that they own their place so can do what they like when they like. We are third class renting citizens. All my telephone calls have been ended because they put the phone down on me... nice. We have thought about moving often of course but to find something like we have now at the price... well, I think we'll be looking a long time. You have to know when you are well off. The downside to a great place has been the neighbours who think they have made it because they own a three-bed semi in Bogenhausen. Laughable.