I hate Germany too

and you got your PhD in psychology where? You can tell that from a few posts? Wow, you are exactly what the internet needs! A free psychology analysis with every post.

I think you ought to talk to Toxic in case he's still looking for ways to introduce Germany to his countrymen.

Now buy some deodorant for your smelly nazi husband and au revoir.

Missing you already!

Hmm...I love (not) the way this has evolved into a real attack session by some people...and also the way people edit the title, edit out people's comments they don't like...keep what they want in, take out what they want out...manipulating the whole thing...I guess I know better now than to post anything on here. Live and learn...
In some ways, it could also be looked at as amusing...how many people react so quickly with nasty comments of their own...then berate someone else for THEIR nasty comments..very very interesting...

Your're right - it's just not fair.

Who decides whether an opinion or emotion is sufficiently balanced???

People emotions are based on their specific experiences not on the general experiences around them. It is the specific that informs more than the general. So I go back to what I asked before why are some emotions more tolerated than others... I pontificate it is because people sometimes feel the contrary emotions/opinon undermines theirs so they feel the need to give the contrary view - if not defend...

But if you can love something then it is as legimiate for someone to say I hate it... In my world, if someone says they hate a country so fcuking what...if someone says they love a country so fcuking what. But I like to hear both perspective because balance comes from the different people´s opinions and experiences.

You and Marsha should meet and commisserate in your misery and negativity .

Btw, I suggest you have your friends check for skid marks in your underwear because apparently you can't see it.

Yeah! Stanford! You the man!

I am struck by three things regarding the OP

1. If she hates Germany and Germans, does that mean that divorce is imminent?
2. How would she respond if this were a Mexican or other immigrant making such statements about her 'good ol' USA', how would she respond?
3. I hope her German husband doesn't echo these same hate-filled sentiments when he's sandwiched between two fat Yanks on the metro or bus (like my stereotyping there?)

I've only been here a few weeks, and I find some Germans to be rude and unhelpful, some to be really nice and willing to translate for me (I too speak French and Spanish but no German). I have had some really bad experiences with racism, what with people getting up and changing seats when I sit next to them on the train. But I don't take it as symptomatic of ALL Germans. I've only got a few more weeks here and I'm already dreading going back to work and my real life.

I like Germany a helluva lot. There are things that are unsavoury, and things I think are great. People are entitled to vent, but calling Germany the Third Reich and saying you hate ALL Germans and everything about the country is a bit extreme. I hope you weren't this charming when you met your in-laws!

Little Shite, are you really well again? It's nice to see you back with a bang.
Your English has got a little better too.
Allround Sunday positivism.
Will you be leaving again soon?

Isn't the point that she's complaining about Germans being "sour, rude and obnoxious" by means of a sour, rude and obnoxious post?

I still think she'd fit in here perfectly. Maybe got to work on her BO a bit.

Saying "I personally hate Germany" is perfectly ok.

But saying Germans are "rude, obnoxious, hygiene deficient, loud, sour, lazy, ... completely incompetent. This place is oppressive, REpressive, non yielding, and it sucks completely. ... They keep their citizens in fear all the time, which is a well known and long time used method of control and manipulation ... Third Reich... Fascism... blablabla" is basically just asking for a strong counterreaction, isn't it?

I mean, unless Germany is by far the worst place in this whole world, it cannot possibly be half as bad as what the poster was saying. Or if it really is so bad in the poster's honest opinion, then a few more concrete examples to substantiate the claims might be helpful.

Oh, and she said that all good things she had heard about Germany were in fact "Propaganda". Then she was asked what exactly this "propaganda" had been about. Could have led to an interesting discussion. But she chose not to elaborate.

@Marsha

Can you do me a favour and make the "Balanced" lovers of Germany become happier by stating something you "love" about Germany...

And then you may be put in the "Balanced" hater category which is okay...

so, she has to follow your set of rules when she says she hates something? She has to 'balance' her hate and 'back up' her reasons?

No wonder that has been so many newbie flounces lately!

If she gives her reasons and the background of her "hate", it will be much easier to understand where she's coming from, and possibly to relate to her issues.

She doesn't necessarily have to be "balanced". But IMHO, she should either give a full story explaining her reasons, or she should expect people to disagree with her sweeping statements.

If she has the right to complain (which she has, nobody has deleted or changed her posts, after all), then why do other people not have the right to disagree?

Only if she wants people to understand what makes her fly off the handle like that. If she's happy to come across as a bit of a nutter of course her approach is completely acceptable.

@Tom_a

Who cares what is behind the person ranting...or whether they are legimate. The expression of the sentiment show where the person is at. PERIOD. I can be super intellectual and rational, maybe more than most, so see loads of non-balanced and non-rationality in most of the post in TT, in the broadsheet newspapers, and in the world in general... But I learnt that it is not the role of every individual person to be balanced and liberal. At the end of the day, the thread starter could have expressed the same emotions with far less explosive language but it still would have been the same emotion: he/she hates Germany.

GENERAL POINT

I shouldn´t say this but some of you guys are like the people who hate the Tabloid press because it paints the world in Black and white... And kind of feel superior because you read the broadsheet newspaper which expresses the world in shades of grey... But if you look deeper at the Broadsheet Newspaper still also engage in the same emotional, and biased reporting as their tabloid cousins only with more educated languages...

So she/he went on a rant against Germany which, in my book, can balance out when some people go on with a love fest about Germany/Munich...(like my Bavarian Nationalist friend!).

Stanford- the defender of the haters and the lovers...
And a reader of the Sun Newspaper

It's also a question of who's complaining. If someone has a history of hundreds of TT posts, and the regular reader can see an overall "personality" of the poster emerging, then a couple of "venting posts" will probably cause quite a different reaction, because you can take it "in context". But Marsha has only made a handful of posts overall, and all sound the same: Sweeping statements, never going into details, never having a real discussion with anybody about her issues.

I am not German, but certainly do not wish to meet you. What were you doing at the social office anyway? No wonder they're rude speaking to a racist such as yourself.

I assume that you don't speak the language as you have obviously not communicated with many Germans apart from your rude, obnoxious, hygiene deficient etc. husband ( your definition of all Germans - not mine ). My daughter is 50% German and doesn't fit your description even by 50%. Maybe you should have played the field first.

As to good "ol" USA, I just viewed and read the discussions on youtube of your whacko Baptists ( the Phelps family ) who picket soldiers funerals and have declared that "God hates America" - that's official -. Ask them yourself at www.godhatesamerica.com. God is apparently even more hateful than you, although even he doesn't hate Germany as much as America - at least according to the Phelps. Perhaps he doesn't need Sozialhilfe...

If you and the Phelps family are anything to go by, I would rather spend my life at the Sozialamt than go to the good "ol" USA.

People who post rose tinted "I love everything about Germany" threads get just as much flak on this board.

As I said before, I think she has every right to rant as much as she wants. Nobody should stop her.

But if someone has the right to rant, others have the right to disagree. It goes both ways, you know, and this is a discussion forum. Strong opinions invite strong counteropinions. Black calls for white. Simple as that.

If you want no disagreement or discussion, put it under "vent".

So why then do you take offense at people pointing out that she comes across as unbalanced? She can hate Germany all she wants if it makes her happy but if she starts a thread about it people will comment on her views as much as on her language.

I think it has something to do with this being a message board.

@Tom_a

As per your last post. Granted...but maybe I am different in seeing these rants as just as legimiate express of someones experiences. Would I ever sum-up my experiences in the same manner...most probs never but still she/he add to the flavour of the world...and belive me there are many people out their in the world who have opinions that are black and white...non-nuasanced.

It is funny, as the starter of the thread was being intelorant to Germany and German and she got back the interlorance of TT to newbies and to being who slag of German a little bit to hard...

Must dash..nice chatting..

Stanford...breakfast is coming...

I love that "rose tinted". There's something ethereal and poetic about your comment .


As she has said, she "thought" she'd put it under the "vent" . It's still open for discussion even if it's put under the vent. But probably it won't get the same exposure as starting a new thread does.

Btw, again I really love Germany !!! I do, I do, I do!

@LittleSprite

You obviously missed the reason for the original point of order. It was, as I try to do, to get people to reflect...so if you pick someone up for hating german in a sweeping way...would you also pick someone up for loving germany in a sweeping way.. And if one is legitimate emotions surely so is the other...

So people can react...but if you are going to take the high horse be careful you are not sounding like opinions and expression are legimiate as long as they fit my world or a coached in my language!!! So I will leave the message board and hope my contribution was just that a contribution...

Stanford...the spiritual righwinger...
Breakfast is now ready..thank you wifey...

Next time my brother say "Moston in Manchester is a shit hole"

I will ask him to be more balanced...

Is this the "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha" episode?

Why don't I go into details? I'll tell you why. I have done that before and find that people don't understand what I am talking about. When I talk about this being the Third Reich still; my husband is actually the one who first said that to me, and which I only found out when I got here to be true. Why?
They want you to register here when you even move down the street (control)
They make you pay for EVERY thing even if it's a government agency.
The people in EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT agency from the Standesamt to the Arge to the Social office are rude and try to get rid of you, by misquoting law, by saying something different every time you talk to them, down to not even knowing at all but behaving like they do...on and on
my husband has been out of full time work for a while and has been dealing with all these incompetents for quite some time...
The only difference is that the Third Reich has gone underground...
The banks where you may have an account CHARGE you for sending out your statement
Customer service representatives are RUDE and unhelpful
There's no teamwork on the job
If you want to read something written about these issues..read "Methods of Manipulation" BY A GERMAN...that talks of many of these same issues. I cannot go into more detail because it would take a book to describe all of them. This government has many Germans scared to protest, scared to speak out..
Oppression is rampant in just about every sector...
Here is the url where you can download the PDF file of "Methods of Manipulation" :

http://www.mein-parteibuch.com/blog/2007/0...r-manipulation/

Didn't you ever figure out that sometimes people post things when they are in the height of their frustration, and say things one maybe not ought to say in such extreme?
Anyway, my last post. Take care folks, Blessings.

She's gone

So Carm, it looks as though we can use Lavender Rain as a free psyhological analyst - she analysed the situation perfectly. Well done Lavender!

Stanford and Carm are getting a bit heated up over everything but come on, I think it was quite obvious that she's frustrated and not seeing things rationally. It must be hard to hate Germany. This lovely place is great. Sure there are some shit things about it. When I first got here, I thought everybody was rude as well but you just need to adjust and you'll soon realise that its just their way. They're actually a friendly bunch of people who are often quite willing to help. Sure, there are wankers here but at the end of the day, you'll find wankers everywhere won't you?

Marsha, you just need to try and see the positives in your current situation.

Just one comment:


I know hundreds if not thousands of Germans. I don't think a single one of them would agree with that sentence.

You picked out the "I hate Germany" part from a post fraught with generalizations and completely ignored the fact that most people on here commented on that post in its entirety and not on the emotion as such. A couple of people (including me) already pointed out that "I hate Germany" is a legitimate statement - while "all Germans are obnoxious" is a generalization and indeed debatable.


So are we talking about legitimate emotions now or about opinions and expressions? Because as far as opinions and expressions are concerned - yep, people can take the high horse...especially when those opinions and expressions are nothing but generalizations.

I would...but I'm far too scared to do so.

The irony of the above link is it appears from Marsha's negative comments about the Germans she may have allowed this propaganda to debase and "manipulate" her viewpoint of Germany.

I think there is a strong interdependence between the attitude of a person and her/his perception of the surrounding reality. One doesn't have to be living in a foreign country with all the difficulties this can include to experience that. When I'm having a bad day, the people I encounter all seem to be stupid, inconsiderate, malevolent, ugly ... When I'm in a more balanced mood, the same people suddenly appear completely different.

Marsha, like other people, I'm not saying that there aren't things worth to be criticized in Germany, but it could help to loosen up – and stop reading obscure blogs and books about evil manipulation methods.

germans are alright!!!

In fact, they are just like us, except with more leather waistcoats

Now we see the erroneous precipice upon which your mischaracterization of contemporary Germany as the "Third Reich" is constructed. None of the things you complain about were unique to the Third Reich, and frankly, most of them don't have even a fleeting tie to any governmental actions whatsoever.

And a more high-stepping gait.

...And more trees than people .

Severe lack of hedges though. I miss the hedges.

Ok - somebody's going to delete these posts unless we get back on topic...

Ummmm...ummmm...I hate Germany in winter. Everybody dressing in grey and black, sludge on the sidewalks, icy winds straight from Siberia...

But then there's Glühwein, and Christkindlmärkte, and snow and...oh well, I guess I suck at hating Germany.

I abhor the tail gaters on the autobahn and when I'm driving on the streets how they seem to turn at corners really slooooowly.

I took one look at that site and thought.. what a load of *!$%*! Wont be wasting my time on a personal hobby horse - with or without Katzenbildern...

So someone putting down Italy... in a generalised kind of way... oh well...shit happens.


BTC calling Daily Mail readers as having rightwing view worse than Hitler...mmmm... Maybe my knowledge of the first world world is different from BTC or BTC was being balanced!!!
Did any of you guys pick up on this one... did you spend anytime writing and getting on your high-horses about this generalisation?


I will leave Lavener explain what reasoning came behind that one.


Given BTC´s point above ...that would make him uneducated I suppose...

Stanford...reads the Daily Mail who does not have view to the Right of Hitler.
And you are right this is a message board...

See ya...have a great Sunday...

For your information, my comment was purely facetious. Hence, the . If it offended anyone's sensibilities that's really too darn bad . Although Conquistador didn't know I was only being facetious, his point is well taken.

BTC: "people who do A and B tend to also do C and D"

stanford: "People who do C also do D"

That's a logical fallacy. And how come you missed out on the "tend to"?

And I thought this post was only worth ignoring, amazing what mileage you can get from a couple of words and a general sprinkling of bigotry.

I bet Marsha wouldn't hate Germany so much if she were living in Munich instead of Niedersachsen (and her husband wasn't unemployed).

Yeah... all those rude, obnoxious, hygiene deficient, loud, sour, lazy, nazi Niedersachsenern have caused her a really bad impression.

Is there already a thread about hygiene deficiency in this country ?

A lot of german men have a high-jeans efficiency

What I meant, Sinderbox, is that Munich is doing a bit better economically. It's also more cosmopolitan. Many people speak english here, too, which would make the transition easier in the beginning.