List of nightclubs/bars with racist door policies

Having been turned away from Max und Moritz last night with the words "Kein Anderes" while the bouncers looked pointedly at my non-Caucasian friend, after they'd let in the other people in our group, I think it's time that we set up a list of the clubs which employ these policies so that we don't get all the way there only to be turned away again. Since I gather that this happens quite frequently, a list of these places could save a lot of trouble.

just a list, please, no discussion. Also, only the places you've experienced this (yourself or with friends), not "a friend of a friend of mine says..."

so, here we go:

Max and Moritz
M-Park

not getting into a debate here, but perhaps we can do an alternative list for places where riff raff like you get turned away.

What does "Kein Anderes" mean? It doesn't sound like a proper German expression to me...

sounds like someone was under the influence.
knew it.
great when people get on a witch hunt like this. could have been a whole multitude of reasons for you and your friend being turned away, but instead you immediately play the race card and feel hard done by.
i was asked to "please go somewhere else" a few weeks ago. perhaps i should sue them. what do you reckon??

stone cold sober, well dressed. Or the time at M-park when they told another friend that he "wouldn't fit in". not a single non-white in the place (we were already inside).
"kein Anderes" means "no one different"
so, once again, I'm not looking for a discussion. If you want to start an argument, schotte, (your usual agenda) start another thread for it.

Yes, there are incidents of racism at the doors of clubs.
You interpreted this incident as racist and you may well be right.

You are prepared though to stand up in court with evidence that those clubs operate a racist door policy when they sue for libel?

What´s that supposed to mean ?

He probably said "Kein Einlaß" (no admittance) ...

sounds like its been totally made up. the bouncer could have said anything.

It isn't, not in this context anyway.


Actually it doesn't. It means no THING (nothing) different. So unless that bouncer was being really disrespectful and talked about your friend like they were a thing, not a person, are you absolutely sure that is what the bouncer meant? I cannot imagine a German making that kind of (grammatical) mistake, but if the bouncer was a foreigner himself, how come he works (and can work) for a club that enforces racist rules?
And besides, I cannot imagine any German using that expression to say "no foreigners"...
Once again, are you really really sure you absolutely understood what the bouncer said?

(miwild's explanation sounds a lot more plausible to me than yours. Your friend might have been turned away for all kinds of reasons, age, looks, gender, how they were dressed. Maybe they were just full.)

No, it doesn't. Literally, it means "no different thing", but referring to a somehow "different" person, no German would say it that way.

Not saying that you are necessarily wrong with your interpretation of the situation. Only pointing out that the verbal quote appears to be wrong, and it is therefore not clear that he verbally expressed what you say he did.

Edit: Miwild is probably right, "Kein Einlass" sounds similar and would be a normal thing to say in such a context.

Was it even the bouncer saying this or someone who had just nipped out for a cigarette???

Well, they took the rattily dressed germans in line behind us, so the place wasn't full, and it wasn't a dress issue since we were both well dressed. yes, they were the bouncers, unless someones who nipped out for a cig managed to get their hands on the earpiece and were checking Ids...

just like to give my 2 cents' worth- I know you said no discussion liutaia but it's inevitable in such a topic:

I have been out a lot in Munich, most of the time with a couple of "non-Caucasian" friends in tow.

I completely agree with liutaia. There have been a lot of places we've been to on nights out where this has happened. We'll all go to a club (bars, as far as I remember, have never been a problem), everyone will get in except our non-Caucasian friends. They've given various excuses such as "Er passt nicht" blah blah blah and even gone as far to say "you guys can go in but they can't".

Any situation can be analysed to death speculating why they weren't let in- the bouncers, to be fair, have never explicitly said "no" on racial grounds but I can't interpret it an other way since last night was the umpteenth time this has happened.

@ Mariposa- I can't speak for last night since I wasn't at the door when this happened and I was already in the club. It wasn't full and I know they let more people in after my friends got turned away.

Just curious: "Non-caucasian" meaning what exactly? African? Indian? East Asian?

P1.

it was 15:30 on a july afternoon and some guy who wasnt even a manager tried to get me to fuck off by saying they were closed.

closed my hoop.

just because im one eighth tinker.

racist bastards. someone should lynch them and take their land.

@ tom_a: our friends are indian

mixtwix. can you remember any of the other places it's happened? I know it's happened a few times when I wasn't out with you, but I can't for the life of me remember where.

Of COURSE it happens. But is almost impossible to prove.

You can refuse anyone admission. But you can't discriminate.
So you refuse entry and either give another reason or better, give no reason as is your right as licensee or agent.

I don't know the clubs apart from name.
Maybe the "rattilly" dressed Germans were not so overdressed as the bouncer thought you were?
Or they were mates? Or they were regulars? Or whatever?

Getting tunred away from somewhere is shit if you are meeting mates there.
But there is little point in arguing about it.
Go elsewhere and if it happens reguarly at venue X then change venues.

What's a "hoop ?

How about if a small group of people who are 1/8th or over "tinker" show up at this club to see what happens then?

i honestly cant remember the last time i went to a club or bar where there were doormen.

its usually a bad sign dont you think?

not looking forward to heading back to ireland and its "more doormen than police" and "more taxis than hospital beds".

me hoop = me arse = my bottom.

im proud of my 1/8th tinker heritage. but you wouldnt catch me dead going out with any half tinker scumbags. they eat their young.

any 1/16th-ers out there? represent yo!

According to Wiki, a "Tinker" appears to be a horse...?

My God, I can't believe that this really happens. I'm black but obviously totally oblivious to this type of thing. Out of interest, were the mates male or female. I ask because I always find that I'm especially welcome - the blokes seem to love the fact that I'm different - oh, and the fact that I've got massive boobs - so they let me in with a nice smile and wink!

I agree with Berny.
Clubs can have door staff, no problem but I want them to be very much in the background in case they are needed, not a barrier or test I have to pass to be allowed to go in and spend my money.

Of the pubs I go to, ONE has a doorman and that is becasue they do operate a door policy.
A couple of times over the years I haven't got in. Other times I've seen other people not get in.
Whatever.

I find the doorman thing for pubs that is so widespread in Ireland and the UK utter shite.

I would assume that good looking women of any race have an obvious advantage over guys or not-so-good-looking women...

My source says a "tinker" is a gyspy. So perhaps berny can tell us just what he meant by "tinker". I thought he meant he's not whitey, white .
http://aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/tinker

Oh, ok! I guess he's more likely to be 1/8th gypsy than 1/8th horse...

Are you serious?

"Tinker" is Irish slang for Travellers / Itinerents.
As I grew up in England knowing it, it also meant kind of metal worker / odd job man / rag and bone man etc where there is obviously a socio-conomic crossover.

tom_a: a tinker would appear to be a Gypsy of sorts... or that's all I can find looking around online. it's also apparently
1. A mender of brass kettles, pans, and other metal ware. "Tailors and tinkers." --Piers Plowman.

2. One skilled in a variety of small mechanical work.

3. (Ordnance) A small mortar on the end of a staff.

4. (Zo["o]l.) (a) A young mackerel about two years old. ( The chub mackerel. © The silversides. (d) A skate. [Prov. Eng.]

5. (Zo["o]l.) The razor-billed auk.

6. Scot., Irish English.
a. a gypsy.
b. any itinerant worker.
c. a wanderer.
d. a beggar.

Yeah - I'm dead serious! I have honestly never seen it or experienced it before. I know there is racism here in Germany but the only time I experienced it was when searching for a flat and when I was at a bus stop once and some drunk old bloke started ranting that he didn't want foreigners in Germany. But clubs and stuff - I thought everyone was welcome. I'm obviously living in my own bubble!

Part of the problem is not that the owners / managers of the club are racists, just a fair number of their other customers might well be, or they think they might be.
Particuarly if they are aiming for a the fairly well to do suburban but want a glamarous night out in the city, kind of market.

The other issue is repuations.
You see (say) a south East European gang of lads, a light goes on, are they out to rob handbags?
You see a group of English speakers, are they going to fight and puke over the waitress?
etc etc. And it gets easier to say, not tonight or we're full etc or were closing etc rather than deal with a potential situation later.

I've been in situations in Munich where non-caucasions have been rejected while caucasoons have been let into clubs, quite obviously for that very reason. It really open your eyes as to the different treatment "good foreigners" and "bad foreigners" can get.

I very much doubt its the bouncers in most cases, who generally couldn't give a shit. Rather, they are just implementing the policies of the clubs who racially discriminate in order to maintain a certain image or reputation. Ultimately what underscores it all is attitudes amongst the public at large which drives the demand for these policies.

I support liutaia's initiative. While these kind of things could happen by accident or misunderstanding once or twice, if they happen to a diverse set of TTers over a period of time, clearly there is some sort of discriminatory policy in place. I, for one, will gladly boycott any such club or bar.

And you can add the Russian bar in Kultfabrik (Kalinka) to the list, which had admitted me one night but then proceeded to turn away a non-caucasion friend of mine without explanation, despite us both being pretty sober and well-attired.

right. so. to reiterate, here's the revised list (just to have it all together):

Max&Moritz
M-park
Kalinka (in Kultfabrik)

I agree these practices could be discriminatory in nature. However, I think boycotting these establishments would not truly make a difference. Do you really think it would make a real difference if they lose a few hundred Euros over time? In essence, I think staying away is really what they prefer you to do. Are there any other actions that could be more effective and make a greater impact?

I'm not calling for a boycott, just a list so that we don't get there in a group have half the group admitted and cover paid, and then leave again because the club's being a jackass. it's really a matter of convenience, even more than principle (mostly because I don't think boycotts to be very effective, as a general rule).

You're probably right about the difference it makes. I can't think what else can realistically be done though, but I'm open to suggestions.

In Ireland you can sue under equality legislation, but it can be difficult to prove and is a lot of hassle for a victim. I don't think any such legislation exists here, but perhaps I am wrong.

That said, perhaps though in a city as diverse and relatively-open-minded as Munich, getting a reputation for being intollerant amongst liberal-minded Germans and high-spending foreigners might do damage to certain clubs.

If nothing else at least having a list might open a few minds, as there is at least a person or two on this thread who seem to doubt this kind of thing even happening.

Notice that you are playing God by judging other peeps. And therefore you were judged. Itsa God thing. Deal with it.
Take care,
space

From the names and the types of club that seem to keep coming up it seems that the clubs themselves would not be bothered financially by a boycott
and I'm not convinced their white German patrons would join it. But I certainly wouldn't keep frequenting a club that did this kind of shit.

I'm sorry. Just to clarify. The only person who used the word boycott was me, and I meant in more in relation to my own personal actions and preferences.

The primary benefit of this list is that people simply know where has these kind of policies. Any further action (or not) is up to the individual.

Some VERY interesting comments:

http://www.cojito.de/max-moritz.8247.htm


Again, there is no PROOF of any policy.
In this case the comment from the bouncer is actually meaningless in German.

People can draw their conclusions though and I'd encourage them to do so.

But isn't the point, that policies can be inferred if this repeatedly happens to lots of people.

I'm not suggesting that a single suspected incident be equated to a policy.

But there's lots of foreigners on Toytown: if people contribute to a list, a pattern can be seen to emerge, particularly if contributors have established posting records.

It's not libel to record that a non-caucasion wasn't allowed into a bar when caucuasions were, as presumably this is a fairly factual event, backed up by multiple witnesses.

No it is certainly not libellous to record such single individual events publicly and I'd encurage people to do so.
Said above I can tell you now which clubs this happens at innit, it is NOT hard to work out a list.

Thanks Monkstown for posting the link to Max and Moritz club site. I took some time to look at the photos in the gallery posted on the club's site. The peeps I saw in the pics where white and quite a few where people of color. I think I even may have seen some "tinkers".

I do not think it would be difficult to probe it if you have the resources. I wonder why no organization or newspaper has done it yet if it is really as common as mentioned.

Caucasian race

I'm not really sure that individual cases of racial discrimination at the door of a club are really that interesting for the local news agaenda tbh.

I mean you can stay several nights at a pub's entrance and record who is being rejected and who is not. That would be beyond an individual discrimination. I could imagine Bild carrying the news. And if not a newspaper, some sort of civil organization that cares about these issues.

It would be a good story that I would love to see in the press Sinderbox, I'm just not sure how much the larger papers care about the issue and whether they would be prepared to make the investment.
And if a concerned group did the reseaarch I'm not sure the papers would carry it.

The clubs aimed at young people have doormen as they have to check ID. I can't remember ever going to a club that didn't have doormen.

If you want a list of clubs pretty much write down almost every big dance club in Munich. That should do it. It is definitely their appearance that stops them getting in as I have been out with this group before when this happened (Rock Studio).They let all of us in but refused to let our Indian friend in. I have also seen English guys turned away at Q-club, where the bouncer told them it was because they were English. They also have it tougher because they are guys.

Getting into clubs here (the big ones anyone) is pot luck. Turn up early to get a better chance as they are just trying to fill the club up at that stage.