Islamic Union under investigation in NRW

The Christians and Muslims cannot reason I presume from your argument. golly.

Athiests believe there is no God.

They know for sure there is no God.

THey have seens the whole universe to know that. Smart I say...

It amazes me how blind and Illogical Athiests can be, in the face of such clear facts.!!

No, that's not what I said. Why do you assume that what stands for atheists automatically means that the opposite is true for believers in religion?

This is correct as there is no evidence to prove or even mildly suggest otherwise.

No one can be 100% sure with the evidence that's available to us. This doesn't mean that what we don't yet know has to be explained by some magical being.

I think you don't have a true grasp of what atheism actually is.

Explain to me how atheists are illogical? What clear facts are you talking about?

Koran 9:29 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

What is going to be interesting is when we meet aliens. Our religions seem to only cover our world.

I think that any kind of belief, whether theist or non theist which makes you think everyone else is wrong leads to problems.

I'm partial to biblical rape law myself.

If you rape a country girl pay her father 50 sheckles and marry her.

I'm partial to biblical rape law myself.

If you rape a country girl pay her father 50 sheckles and marry her.

50 shekels using inflation adjusted rates is quite a lot of money.

Maybe I do not have a full idea about Athiesm then. I always say that 'I could be wrong'.

As I understand Athiesm is as follows.

They know that there is no God for sure.
( Maybe this is what some call hard Athiest?)

I am only saying that to hold such a position is illogical.
why?
1. To know that there is no God, one would have to know about the whole universe or to have to search the whole universe.
2. That has not been done or cannotbe done ( unless you are God himself by definition)
3. So to assume there is no God, is foolishness or illogical.

Now, I agree that one can say that one does not know for sure there is no God.
That is acceptable, but then one becomes an Agnostic!

I am only saying that to hold such a position is illogical.
why?
1. To know that there is no God, one would have to know about the whole universe or to have to search the whole universe.
2. That has not been done or cannotbe done ( unless you are God himself by definition)
3. So to assume there is no God, is foolishness or illogical.

Now, I agree that one can say that one does not know for sure there is no God.
That is acceptable, but then one becomes an Agnostic!

Often, people claim that they are agnostic because they lack belief in a god but don't know for sure. This is a misnomer caused by a misunderstanding of agnosticism. In this case it is used as a softened version of atheism rather than its true meaning. What such people mean to claim is that they are weak atheists, or negative atheists, who lack belief in god. Such a description applies to people who have never heard of the idea of a god, e.g. babies, isolated tribes of people, etc. Some would argue that "agnostic" better applies to people who simply don’t know what they believe yet rather than weak atheism. However, not knowing implies a lack of conviction. A belief is a conviction in the truth of something. If that conviction in the existence of god is lacking, implicit atheism at least describes such beliefs. Furthermore, the claim of simply lacking a belief in a god does not take somewhat of a middle ground. The fact that they lack belief in all gods they know of, means that they have rejected all the gods possible, which is a position of strong atheism, or disbelief, at least of all gods they know of. Therefore, all people who have no specific belief in god are strong atheists, at least towards the deities they know of. Thus, the only people who are complete weak atheists are babies, or people with no knowledge of any supposed deities.

The problem with this misunderstanding of Agnosticism is mainly due to this common scenario. Somebody asks "Do you believe in god?" and receives the answer "I’m agnostic", meaning "I don’t know". However, the original question was not about knowledge, but about belief. However, with the question "Is there a god?" I can logically remain agnostic as this question deals with knowledge. To the infinitely many possible gods, however, implicit atheism is the only option as strong atheism requires a specific disbelief in the possible deity, which in return requires specific characteristics for the deity be explained. In reference to a specific god the position of strong atheism is perfectly valid and possibly even gnostic atheism.

Anyway, back to the main topic. Sarkozy in France has said some occasional offensive remarks concerning Muslims, in the Netherlands it is now a national sport to pick on Muslims, in Guantanamo...well, you know. Evidently the Muslims have become a target in much of the West, and from the look of things this behavior will be tolerated and even cheered on by much of the much-vaunted "liberal" West. The whole point of freedom and tolerance is to protect precisely those groups with which you are not in agreement, otherwise it is a farce.

That brush you're painting with, it's much too broad. We simply don't know whether these people were detained because of their religion or because of crimes they may have permitted.
And on the subject of bigotry, how is your behaviour (assuming the police persecute innocent muslims) any better than what you accuse them of?

@Handsome,
So are you illogical? Do you also believe in fairies, pixies, noodle monsters, trolls, witches, elves, unicorns, zeus and hades as you don't know everything? By your logic, everybody is illogical.

Nope, I am not assuming police persecution. But I do believe the the "presumption of innocence" is being ignored in this case.

The police have a report containing some allegations, the State has not acted on these allegations, so at the moment they are without proof in court, and so should remain as allegations. Unfortunately, the muslims are being tried in the press and by the public because of general hostility to muslims. This is what I am concerned about. There are several incidents that seem to point to a more hostile climate for muslim immigrants, and a general apathy from other outsiders like ourselves.

@Handsome,
So are you illogical? Do you also believe in fairies, pixies, noodle monsters, trolls, witches, elves, unicorns, zeus and hades as you don't know everything? By your logic, everybody is illogical.

It is Illogical to believe there is no God, when you do not know everything.

What I know is that witches exist. So I believe that. All others no, so I do not beleive them. It is only logical.

Handsome, before you start using big words like "logical", it's best to understand what it actually means.

You said it yourself. You are illogical because you don't know everything and you claim it is illogical not to believe when you don't know everything.

It is Illogical to believe there is no God, when you do not know everything.

I know there are witches and I know there is a God...So it is only logical to believe that.

When one cannot really argue, since the point is pretty clear, start attacking the messenger or be insulting.
Nothing new under the sun eh?

How do you know? On what evidence do you base this knowledge?

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions... differing from his or her own

The popularized version of the misconception that people before the age of exploration believed that Earth was flat persists in the popular imagination, and is even repeated in some widely read textbooks. Previous editions of Thomas Bailey's The American Pageant stated that "The superstitious sailors [of Columbus' crew] ... grew increasingly mutinous...because they were fearful of sailing over the edge of the world"; however, no such historical account is known.^[8] Actually, sailors were probably among the first to know of the curvature of Earth from daily observations — seeing how shore landscape features (or masts of other ships) gradually descend/ascend near the horizon.

Around 830 CE, Caliph al-Ma'mun commissioned a group of astronomers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to al-Raqqah, in modern Syria. They found the cities to be separated by one degree of latitude and the distance between them to be 66 2/3 miles and thus calculated the Earth's circumference to be 24,000 miles (about 38,600 km), a value which differs from modern estimates by about 3.6%.^[60]

The Muslim scholars who held to the round earth theory used it in an impeccably Islamic manner, to calculate the distance and direction from any given point on the earth to Makkah (Mecca). This determined the Qibla, or Muslim direction of prayer. Muslim mathematicians developed spherical trigonometry which was used in these calculations.^[63] Ibn Khaldun (d. 1406), in his Muqaddimah, also identified the world as spherical.

Flat Earth Society
The Flat Earth Society is an organization first based in England and later in Lancaster, California that advocates the Flat Earth hypothesis.

Perhaps the Brits thought the world was flat, but most educated Europeans thought otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_mythology

Isa 40:22:He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.

If you are interested, lets meet. OK? pm me.

For the public knowledge: The Self revelation of God. His Word and His Creation.
There is no way to prove His existence other that His own method to be convinced. Do you want to experience His method? If yes, read the Bible and Pray. No other way.

Of course, if Earth is a sphere, "above" has no meaning.
In those pictures of a Christ or mary rising into the sky: where are they going? The moon?
There is no reason to show contempt for religious thought, but some of the mythology just cracks me up!

A circle is still flat though. So it looks like the bible was wrong

Thanks for the offer, but I live in Berlin.

Ok, so you state that by reading a book and thinking thoughts to this magical being there will be evidence apparent? Unfortunately this doesn't cut it, it's proof of nothing what so ever.

It was in the bible a long ago that the earth was not flat.

"take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)

"The devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them"
(Matthew 4:1-12)

The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth. (Daniel 4:10-11)

To whom then will ye liken God? ...It is he that sitteth upon the circle (chuwg) of the earth (Isaiah 40:18-23

Are you afraid to pray?? So you are not really interested to know this side of the story then...oh well...your choice...

especially disturbing is when the criticisms eminate from perfidious Albion, whose only contribution to world culture is warm beer and marmite