Private health insurance company recommendations

I am looking for a private health insurance. Anyone have any recommendations?

I can't really give you too much information on particular insurance companies, but I can say a couple things on what to look for. Most private insurance companies cover all the important stuff, however there are a couple areas that are hazy. 1) Not all insurance companies cover pregnancy, so if you have any intention of having regular sex, whether or not you plan to get pregnant, I highly recommend making sure you've got this coverage. 2) Dental insurance is not always covered 100%, particularly in the area of orthodontics and dentures (and, from my own experience, they consider any ceramic inlays, onlays or crowns to be in the "denture" category).

I've unfortunately had more than my share of doctor visits in the last couple years here, and as far as I can tell most other really important things are covered as a standard practice of the insurance business in this country.

Perhaps someone else can give you information on private insurance companies that cover homeopathy, massage, etc...

Thanks "Interplanetjanet" -- thanks for the heads-up !!!

www.expacare.com

I use it, no problems...relatively inexpensive too.

You should probably also take a look at German health insurance providers.

yoyo, I looked at the site that you pointed out and it does seem like a very good deal. You say you've had a good expereince with them. Being from the US I haven't heard of them... are they a "large" firm or have good backing? I assume UK law ensures that "fly by night" operations aren't providing critical medical coverage for people!

I assume you are from the US with the screen name.

The biggest problem is that if your main home is in germany (your first address is not abroad anymore) and you are a non-Eu citizen, no private german insurance company will cover you unless you have been paying into the Gesetzliche Krankenkasse for at least 1 year.

The exceptions to this is if you are married to a german or other EU citizen (meaning you have a permanent visa), or if you are studying. There may be some other exceptions, but you have to ask every insurance company specifically.

The other thing to do is to find insurance with a company outside of Germany. The government requires that you have insurance, but from where and from who is not important. It is just a lot of trouble to collect from these foreign companies though...

Good luck.

Uh, I never had that problem in my first year here. I'm sure it probably depends on your situation at work. If your company has an agreement with some specific insurance companies, as mine does, that shouldn't be a problem. It'd definitely be worth checking if what jpp888 says is the standard.

interplanetjanet: I am assuming that you used the Gesetzliche Krankenkasse? If not, then it was definately a special case with the private, as just to walk in and get private insurance has been a huge problem for me (as said in earlier posts).

There are a lot of rules that have to be met, and even though every insurance company would throw insurance offers at me, in the end they would take them back as soon as they found out the true situation (most assume that you are here on holiday, or you are an ex-pat here, or that you are here for some other reason and it is only short term...when they find out that your permanent home is in germany, they will refuse you insurance!).

This has been a huge problem for me, and it just seems strange that so many people have come here and gotten private insurance when I have talked to literally every major and small insurance company in germany, and every one has told me the same thing: that I cant be insured privately without either a permanent residence permit or without having paid into the Gesetzliche Krankenkasse for minimum 1 year.

I am just wondering what everyone else's situation is where they have been non EU citizens and have been given private insurance. Are you married to a german or do you already have a permanent residence permit? Is your primary home still listed as being outside germany? Is there some other exemption that I dont know of?

i am wondering why YOU had so many problems? and what is your TRUE situation?

thing is, gov't-sponsored insurance supports everyone. private companies only want low-risk/temporary residents or rich peeps.

From yoyo's earlier post and checking www.expacare.com (where I got an very inexpensive online quote which is good for 30 days) I sent an email yesterday saying I wanted to purchase. 30 minutes later a account rep emailed back a simple form with name, address, last doctor and payment info (no deep questions into my history - strange). Faxed it back and within 2 hours I have health insurance.

FYI - I am a US citizen and still have my primary address in the US (though I gave them my US address).

I also think that the way it reads if I did not disclose (even though no place on the form) major prior conditions then I could be nailed (I have none).

Heard that these folks are fine and no real problems (though I have no first hand experience since this is my first day of coverage!)

My situation is a bad one. I was hired by a german company in their german office. I was fresh from the univerity, and the company took advantage of a stupid foreigner who didnt know any better and hired me as an expat. This means I earned less money than the germans, didnt have the same rights, and they forced me to pay US Social Security, Medicare, etc. This means I never paid into the Sozialkasse and so had no Gesestzliche Krankenversicherung. They filled out an exemption form, saying I was an ex-pat, which exempted me from the Sozialkasse here and said I was required to pay Social Security, etc in the US. This saved the company thousands of Euros.

I found this all out soon after beginning, but the company promised me a german contract after 18 months (in writing), so I didnt 'rock and the boat' and accepted my situation. After the 18 months was up they didnt give me a german contract and told me if I didnt go and work in the US at their office there I would be fired. Since I had never paid into the Sozialkasse in Germany, I had no unemployment money, no health insurance, no rights, etc. However, I chose to be fired and live in germany with no income rather than go and work in the US for $60.000 a year. I ended up reporting them to the goverment for withholding taxes and cheating me. I didnt think I would get anything out of it, since what they did is uncharted territory (it is totally legal, but only when you are an expat...I was an immigrant, and no one has ever fought a company for this reason before).

I assumed the worst, and so I searched for private health insurance, since that was a requirement for getting a visa. My permanent residence is in Germany and I had never paid into the Gesetzlichekrankenkasse, so no one would insure me. That is the reason I have been telling everone to be careful when searching for private insurance here. There are a lot of rules. But as one of the posts said, they have their permanent address in the US, so in this case they will give you insurance.

It was a long and drawn out story, but I finally won against the company (I cant be hired as a US expat if I never worked in the US office!) and didnt even have to take them to court. I went though the US government and got the social security office to cancel the exemption (imagine how difficult it is to tell the US government that you will never return to the US, you will give up your US citizenship, and that you want a refund of all your Social Security and Medicare taxes from 2 years!). As soon as this exemption was cancelled, the German government came down hard on the company and forced them to pay all back taxes.

I know this all has nothing to do with the post, but since you asked, there is the story!

Just to give an update to clarify getting private health ins. A certain TTer keeps posting that it is impossible to get private health ins if you have not paid into the state ins or have a perm residency in DE or are a student etc...

This is complete BS - You can. I am a self employed person, American, never worked for German comp or paid into German system, have only current German limited 1 yr residency permit and have been able to get ins without any problems what so ever, as several others have also stated, they have gotten it as well. So to those of you looking for info, ignore the "advice" given that you can not get private ins.

All that needs done is to go to a dr and get a check-up and have them complete a provided form. Once this form is complete and you are deamed healthy (a very simple form) your ins starts the first of the next month.

For any of you who have had problems finding private health ins - here is who I went through

DKV
agent - Carsten Intelmann
phone - 089 74 33 020
web www.intelmann.de
address:
Lindwurmstr. 193

I'm looking for some private insurance now.

I've looked at the companies in this thread and some mentioned in others (like BUPA or AXA) and they all seem to be reasonably priced, however they rarely include routine dental work.

Does anyone out there have a good private insurance plan that includes dental?

Thanks!

Yep, HUK Coburg. So far I've had two root canals, surgery on my jaw, and a mouth guard to protect my teeth from grinding when I sleep. So far I've only actually paid out of my own pocket 20% of the cost for the mouth guard. Everything else was 100%

I have AXA, and it covers all dental! I worked out a good contract. I also looked at HUK Coburg but they were about 200 Euro a month more.
I have never had problems with Axa at all.

I went thru an Insurance man, and he asked what I was looking for, what I wanted to spend, and then came up with about 8 plans from different companies, and then I selected what was best for me.
Have the name at home though.

I have a independent one who provided me with excellent coverage. She speaks English as well. Barbara Zahn 08341-2733

Hallo all,

am interested to find out on peoples experiences with gaining private health insurance in germany (living in munich)!!
is it recommended-worth it? Have allready been to the doctors and paid thru the nose for it as my travel insurance ran out after some months of being here and have been just winging it ever since!! (luckily not been sick)

have a work permit but that doesn´t mean one is covered by the krankenkasse right!!!

am concerned something will happen to me and have to pay huge medical costs, plus need to go for dental check ups etc and again don´t want to pay heaps of euros!!

but is private expensive and is it available to non german residents?

any tips, info on what is available, cover options and expected costs would be greatly appreciated!!

hope i remain healthy in the meanwhile!!



Topics merged by admin

It's not just "recommended" or "worth it" - adequate personal medical cover is a legal requirement to be resident here.

How much did you pay for the doctors when you "paid through the nose"? I have no insurance for minor visits to the doctors, and usually pay around €35 for a brief consultation.

I do, however, have private insurance to cover me for emergency treatment and/or hospitalisation. If you get hit by a bus then it can potentially cost tens of thousands of euros if you need emergency operations but have no insurance.

This topic has been covered lots of times before so there is a wealth of information on this forum. Just type 'health insurance' into the search field and off you go

Way too complicated. Click here

Only 44 results? Is that it?

Does anybody know if the 50% company contribution for private health insurance also include spouses(non-working) as well?

If you are getting yourself a private health insurance, your non-employed wife or husband have to be covered with an additional personal private health insurance or in some cases they can stay in the public health insurance system, depending on their status. Therefore if you are the sole provider of income and you have a wife/husband plus a couple of childre, remaining in the public insurance system with all its problems is often the better choice financially. You can always use an additional add-on private insurance for those services you might like, but which are not covered under the public insurance umbrella.
Get a good independent agent (see TT classified, for instance) to help you through this.

In addition: check the thread below at "Health insurance - legal obligations in Germany", at the second page there is a lot of useful date from my side and from Yorkshireguy, this should help you understanding your options

I have just spent the last 3-4 weeks looking at Health Insurance.
The reason is because I am now self-employed and wanted to see if it would be better to leave my old "Kasse" for a private scheme.

I looked at various options as shown below and I feel that I have chosen the best option for ME.
However, it may be that some of this information may help others, which is why I am now posting.

I moved to Germany in 1998 with a company that used to be part of Siemens, therefore I immediately joined SBK (Siemens BetriebsKrankenKasse) as there was an SBK office on site and it was EASY.
During the last 8 years I never had any problems with SBK but earlier this year I was made redundant and eventually decided to start my own business.

SBK made me an offer to stay with them.
BUT: With it being a "Kasse" I would still have to pay all those €10 fees for bloomin' everything every quarter.
Then there is also the €10 per day should I end up in hospital. Etc..Etc..
For the privilidge of staying with them, they wanted around €450 per month which I considered no less than extortion!

I looked at the Private schemes which were recommended in a recent survey:
Allianz
DEVK
Gothaer
TKK
Also "Central" which is owned by Generali.

Then after reading various comments on other TT discussions about people using BUPA and AXA-PPP as Uk Expats, I also looked at those two.

Firstly the two UK ones (AXA-PPP & BUPA)
Both were very helpful and sent lots of information.
They were both similar in price and also in features of the schemes.
The prices were roughly around €150 per month for the most comprehensive cover.
However, they both openly state that they will not cover what they call chronic conditions.
Chronic conditions are ones which need management and cannot be conclusively cured.
Now, there is nothing wrong with me at the moment, but "Chronic" means ongoing heart conditions, diabetes and many other similar things.
It seems that they want to insure you whilst you are healthy, but as soon as you are ill, then good-bye!
This kind of scheme seems good for the UK where one has the NHS to fall back on. But here where it would be a person's "only" scheme - not for me!
I also feel that this would be OK for people coming to work for a limited time and planning on returning to the UK.

The German ones:

TKK: Never replied to my initial enquiry.

DEVK: A very well known and renowned company, but at a price of around €460

Gothaer: Very friendly English-speaking agent who made a good offer at around €298

Allianz: Another friendly agent who again made a good offer which I almost chose at around €305

Central: The scheme which most suited my requirements at a price of €285

It may look like I just chose the cheapest, but in fact the "Central" scheme has the lowest "SB" contribution and the best rebate should I not make any claims in a year. It also has the most comprehensive cover apart from the very expensive DEVK scheme.

MT.

One of the best is DKV.
It costs a bit but I never had a problem with them, paid full dental expenses even if I had just joined them.
When I left, they just asked for an Abmeldung copy.
If you need a contact person (agency), I can give you the name of an English speaking lady.

i thought TKK was Technischer Krankenkasse and was a public scheme anyhow or do they have a private offer as well?

@ MT -- thanks for that. it's info like that that makes me proud to be a TTer

EDIT: i thought private insurance was much, much cheaper than public one? granted, my boss pays half, so I only fork out €250 a month. i'm with BKK Fahr.

@M-T, I'm pretty sure that the Insurance companies won't cover you for chronic conditions that you know about when you join up but they have to cover you for chronic conditions that arise later on.

Sleepless,
Yes, you do have to include details of any chronic conditions on your application form. Also any treatment of any kind within the last 3-5 years.
They may still accept your membership, but as you say, they will either exclude those conditions or charge a very high premium to cover them.

But, my comment about the UK schemes was that even if you are healthy now, but suddenly get problems defined as "chronic", they will cover some initial treatment and then throw you out, leaving you with no health insurance.
They openly say that they would expect this treatment to be taken on the NHS, not on their scheme, hence my comment about BUPA & AXA-PPP being OK if you are in a country like the UK which has a national scheme to fall back upon.

MT

Ok peeps'.

Quick question from me. I'm coming over in 2 weeks with a German contract. The gf is coming in about 6 months.

When she get's here, we're going to get married and probably have kids. She's going to continue to work and we'll both be over the 47k threshold, although I'll be earning more than her (finally).

With those circumstances in mind, is it better for one of us to stay public (for the kids sake) and the other to go private, or when we get married, will that €500 or so that I'm going to pay a month under public cover all of us with no deductions from her pay?

Confused of Bromley

I'll bet that you'll both have to pay 500 a month (well, half of it, the employer will get the other half), and that will cover your kids.

I would imagine you could get much better coverage a lot cheaper by both going private..

@ Hutco - You have to watch it with kids in Private as I understand. I think it is probably better that one stay public. Maybe I am wrong, but for Private (not private from the UK as Hutco has) you have to insure each person.

I think the children have to follow the father. I am sure that is what our agent said to us. We are both with Allianz and so far so good.

@hutcho

the 500 is my contribution Employer is paying same on top.

At least that's what all the tax and social security calculators tell me.

I know in the short term I can save a ton by going private. It's just the whole long term thing...

I doubt it will be 500 euros a month when earning 56,000 euros a year (which is what you specified in a previous post).. I've never paid into this public system though so I'm not sure..

I believe there is also a top limit to this, I think actually my insurance broker told me this. If you were earning 150k a year, you won't be paying 1000 or so euros a month for your cover on public.

Yeah, Hutcho, you can if you are at the high end of salaries, that is why I switched. I was at 480, 3 years ago when I switched.

sorry let me recalculate from marks! (anybody else still do that?)

Payments to gesetzliche Krankenversicherung are a %age of your gross salary, up to a limit of €42,750 annual salary (for 2006) of which half is normally paid by your employer. The percentages vary by insurance company, but are usually 11-13% depending on the company. Added to this is the Pflegeversicherung (nursing care insurance) which is set at 1.7% of your gross, again paid 50% by your employer.

So, if your salary is €36,000/year = €3,000 per month, and your insurance company is charging 12% for the main insurance, then your payments are (3000x12% + 3000x1.7%) = €411. So you pay €205.50 and your employer contributes the same.

If your salary is €42,750 or more, then your monthly salary is €3937.50 (or more) and your insurance payments max out at €539.44/month, again of which your employer pays half. Some people often think they are paying more, because they pay the full premium to the insurance company themselves, but their employer refunds their contribution via their paypacket (which is sometimes hidden in many other different deductions and add-ons, so may not be so obvious)

There may be some circumstances where you pay more, if you take additional options from the insurance company, Tageskrankengeld being one of them (daily payments while sick).

If your dependants (husband, wife or children) are earning less than €400 per month then they can be automatically covered by your own gesetzliche Krankenversicherung if you choose to have it, at no extra cost. If they earn any more than this, then they need their own insurance.

Private insurance calculates premium according to risk. As children and women/wives are perceived to be more of a risk (read "expensive to keep healthy") it would be usual for a man (or woman) with stay-at home spouse and 2 kids to pay MUCH more in the private system - typically €1000-1500/month depending on the company and cover. As it's not easy to leap between systems (especially INTO the gesetzliche Krankenversicherung) then if you are likely to have a family this is a cheaper option from the outset. You can still by private top-up cover if you so wish to cover additional dental, optical, special treatment or in-patient costs that the gesetzliche Krankenversicherung does not normally cover

YL6

Is it truly difficult to get back into the public system? Has anyone had any first hand experience with this? If so, what happened?

If you earn under a certain annual salary (also €47,250 I believe) then the gesetzliche Krankenversicherung are obliged to accept you as a member. Over that limit, and they can choose to reject your application, so you must go private. You can only leave gesetzliche Krankenversicherung after a minimum of 18 months membership and must give at least 2 full calendar months notice. In most cases someone new to Germany who is applying for the first time for insurance, but is over the 47,250 limit won't have a problem with gesetzliche Krankenversicherung, but if they start with private, or hop out and want to hop in again (assuming they are over the limit in any case), they may have problems...

Isn't there some rule that up to €500 per month is covered by the working spouse's employer (if you are private) so they can then contribute part of the non working spouseand the children?? I am sure I can remember somehting along those lines from when I asked the agent.

Wish I knew. I'm not sure if it's best for me to start private or public. I'm getting a 8k payrise (in pounds), but taking home £300 less a month. Obviously in the short term I can up this figure but going private, but when the kids come (and the other half will be earning roughly what I get too), I dont know if I'm screwing myself over.

If I join the public system at first, am I really tied in for 18 months?

I have coverage through BUPA (UK)...covers me all over the world (accept the US) and it costs me about 130 Euros per month on their Gold plan. They cover alot, but I never had to make a claim, so I have no idea what they're like in regards to that. They all speak English and everything is easy to understand and they'll call you in a moments notice, with their callback service...just need to send them an email.

SK8,
As I mentioned in my post #26, I also looked at BUPA (and AXA-PPP) but I was very concerned about their conditions on "Chronic" illnesses.

We all hope nothing happens to us, but if any member of these (BUPA & AXA) suddenly becomes diabetic, or has heart problems, or something similar, then after an initial treatment they will "ask you to go elsewhere" for insurance as they will not cover medicines or treatment for any condition which needs "Managing".

MT

@Malt-Teaser
I have had a plan with www.expatriatehealthcare.com and it cost almost 1000 euros for a year, and it covered all cronic conditions no problems. Policies from overseas are much better value than these German ones, and often offer a lot more.

However, if you are in full time employment you must have a German insurance. I have had to get another insurance now because I am no longer a freelancer. I believe sk8rgrl was employed also as a contractor over here and thats why this worked fo rher also.

Hutcho,
I would have been interested to look at that particular insurance.

But I would not personally take the BUPA or AXA ones for the reasons already explained.
I don't doubt that these schemes 'work' for some people, just not for me.
MT

These policies are specifically made for people from anywhere in the world living anywhere in the world. They do not assume that you can fall back onto the UK system.

If you want to see the policy you can check it out at www.expatriatehealthcare.com .

Thanks Hutcho,
I have just had a look and yes, it does seem to offer more than BUPA and AXA.

I would have considered that one.
MT

while a decent deal, expatriatehealthcare does not cover long term (what I would call "chronic") and other important conditions. For example:

- "Chronic" conditions (e.g. illnesses failing to respond to treatment) have a limit of £2000
- Treatment is limited to 28 weeks per year
- Prostheses are limited to £2000
- no treatment for self inflicted injury, or primary or secondary consequences of drugs or alcohol abuse
- Psychiatric care limited to 30 days or £3000
- hereditory or congenital conditions are not covered at all.

Get cancer, lose a leg, or fall over after a couple of beers and you're stuffed...

YL6

Well, I've just had a look and I can't see those clauses that you're talking about however you are normally excellent with information so i'll certainly believe that those clauses are in there...

I guess as you say there are clauses with these expat contacts that can screw you over..